One for the Pipe

B1GPAC 32

-Coastal
⦁ Washington
⦁ WSU
⦁ OSU
⦁ Oregon
⦁ California
⦁ Stanford
⦁ UCLA
⦁ USC

-Mountain plains
⦁ ASU
⦁ Arizona
⦁ Utah
⦁ Colorado
⦁ Kansas
⦁ Nebraska
⦁ Iowa
⦁ Iowa State

-Great Lakes
⦁ Minnesota
⦁ Wisconsin
⦁ Illinois
⦁ Northwestern
⦁ Indiana
⦁ Purdue
⦁ Notre Dame
⦁ Ohio State

-East
⦁ Michigan
⦁ Michigan State
⦁ Penn State
⦁ Maryland
⦁ Rutgers
⦁ Virginia
⦁ North Carolina
⦁ Duke

JR really knocked it out of the park.

It’s coming. Traditions and customs give way slowly at first, but the pace will increase. OU/UT and NIL have started to open minds.

The train is starting to move.

Then you have potential employee ruling by SCOTUS. CFP to redo. New TV deals to be signed. All in the environment of two conferences with demographics that result in soon doubling up their peers.

That train will be going downhill sooner than later.

The current setup and conferences are just too unstable. You can’t have revenue gradients like without it leading to major moves. The ACC GOR isn’t stopping this because of esoteric emotions. It’s just a matter of how bloody the consolidation and culling gets

A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

14 B1G + 9 Pac + ND = a true American Athletic Conference...though they'd never take that name. Or the Big 24.

These are absolutely better fits than the Tobacco Road group. The Pac is culturally a western version of the B1G already, only 2-3 time zones behind.

Arizona State, Oregon State, and Washington State are left behind in this scenario, and end up joining the Big 12.

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

So how does the SEC get to 24 if the B1G takes the 9 AAU schools of the PAC plus Notre Dame?

(04-07-2022 03:55 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

14 B1G + 9 Pac + ND = a true American Athletic Conference...though they'd never take that name. Or the Big 24.

These are absolutely better fits than the Tobacco Road group. The Pac is culturally a western version of the B1G already, only 2-3 time zones behind.

Arizona State, Oregon State, and Washington State are left behind in this scenario, and end up joining the Big 12.

Hate to admit it, but that is a good looking conference.

(04-07-2022 03:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

So how does the SEC get to 24 if the B1G takes the 9 AAU schools of the PAC plus Notre Dame?

You need 12 votes to dissolve the ACC. With Notre Dames vote you can add the votes of Miami, FSU, GT, Duke, WF, NC State, VT, UVa, UNC, Clemson, and Pitt or Louisville

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

Agee.

The BIG fit is commonsense. I mean, Rose Bowl, academics, social-demographics. The Midwest BIGs long had a yearning to get out of the rust belt. A lot of ties to the academic elite of the Pac12.

ND would add huge value to any conference, but it’s most valuable to CFB, to the networks, when its addition is coupled with the Pac12. The Pac 12 need ports in which to export their product. No singular Midwest entity does that better than ND.

No one wants to lose the past and become corporate, but it will be needed to survive. This bundling best preserves the past.

(04-07-2022 04:32 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

So how does the SEC get to 24 if the B1G takes the 9 AAU schools of the PAC plus Notre Dame?

You need 12 votes to dissolve the ACC. With Notre Dames vote you can add the votes of Miami, FSU, GT, Duke, WF, NC State, VT, UVa, UNC, Clemson, and Pitt or Louisville

That’s where ESPN comes in, particularly if BIG is exclusively on another network. They’ll facilitate keeping ACC brands of value to their side.

ESPN basically owns ACC, SEC, and AAC. They’d benefit long term moving the elite ACC to the SEC and the bottom to American. But what about the middle class to get the 12 votes?

Imo that’s where ESPN solves their Big 12 problem. No one wants to be moved to the American. There will be some that will be tempted to lock up a spot in the “3” of a P3. And because the ACC deal is trash for the next 14 years, it will likely be at no loss for these programs to move to the Big 12. The alternative is heading to American as ESPN finds another ACC school that will move.

(04-07-2022 03:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

So how does the SEC get to 24 if the B1G takes the 9 AAU schools of the PAC plus Notre Dame?

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Kansas
Clemson, (one of Florida State, Miami, South Florida), Virginia Tech and depending upon priorities one of (Louisville, Georgia Tech).

Florida has twice sponsored FSU. They want that game secured. Same for South Carolina and Clemson. The SEC would likely prefer a presence deeper South into Florida. Miami would certainly do, but Tampa St Pete would be a more natural fit.

If the play is simply money, we take Louisville over Georgia Tech. If the idea is academic prowess, or defensively making B1G expansion in our footprint highly impractical we take Georgia Tech.

If ESPN has other plans for FSU, Clemson, and Louisville which value wise they may desire, then Duke, UNC, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Kansas, Miami, and Georgia Tech make sense geographically and relationally. .

Your NB12 becomes:

Boston College, Connecticut (peace in Storrs), Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest, West Virginia

Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian

Baylor, Central Florida, Clemson, Florida State, Houston, South Florida/Miami

Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Texas Tech, Washington State.

Should ESPN still want more umpf Miami joins and that's when S. Florida comes in play for the SEC.

So maybe the SEC looks like this:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, South Florida/Miami, Tennessee

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

It really just depends upon ESPN's vision and value calculations as to which are the final 3 or 4 ACC schools added to the SEC and which ones help form a New Big 12.

(04-07-2022 04:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

So how does the SEC get to 24 if the B1G takes the 9 AAU schools of the PAC plus Notre Dame?

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Kansas
Clemson, (one of Florida State, Miami, South Florida), Virginia Tech and depending upon priorities one of (Louisville, Georgia Tech).

Florida has twice sponsored FSU. They want that game secured. Same for South Carolina and Clemson. The SEC would likely prefer a presence deeper South into Florida. Miami would certainly do, but Tampa St Pete would be a more natural fit.

If the play is simply money, we take Louisville over Georgia Tech. If the idea is academic prowess, or defensively making B1G expansion in our footprint highly impractical we take Georgia Tech.

If ESPN has other plans for FSU, Clemson, and Louisville which value wise they may desire, then Duke, UNC, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Kansas, Miami, and Georgia Tech make sense geographically and relationally. .

Your NB12 becomes:

Boston College, Connecticut (peace in Storrs), Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest, West Virginia

Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian

Baylor, Central Florida, Clemson, Florida State, Houston, South Florida/Miami

Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Texas Tech, Washington State.

Should ESPN still want more umpf Miami joins and that's when S. Florida comes in play for the SEC.

So maybe the SEC looks like this:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, South Florida/Miami, Tennessee

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

It really just depends upon ESPN's vision and value calculations as to which are the final 3 or 4 ACC schools added to the SEC and which ones help form a New Big 12.

If Kansas is included:
Kansas, Louisville, UVa, Virginia Tech, Carolina, NC State, Clemson, Florida State.

Leaves a ten team eastern Conference:
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Miami, UCF, USF.

Leaves the Big 12 with:
West Virginia, Cincinnati, Tulane, Houston, Baylor, TCU, TT, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, Memphis, SMU


Just a thought..............

(04-06-2022 07:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 06:28 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 05:34 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 04:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 03:30 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  USC won't go independent. They don't have the national following needed to support an indy run but even if ESPN or someone was willing to prop them up financially they would still refuse because they wouldn't do anything that resulted in all of their olympic programs having to slum it whether that be the Mountain West or somewhere further down the line like the Big West/Big Sky/WAC...

It would be more like the B12 if they had to do so. Swimming & Diving, Track & Field, Gymnastics, etc. could be accommodated within the ESPN family. Odds are the PAC which would still want and need games with them for exposure and legitimacy would keep the Olympic Sports and other non revenues. Remember the PAC schools need exposure in B12, SEC, and ACC regions if they are to up their profile and USC is a flagship program for the PAC. If they lost them it is USC which would have a lot of leverage. The "Alliance" rankled a lot of feelings. Those 3 conferences within ESPN could easily cut the PAC out of scheduling and play fully within their larger region and all monies would stay with ESPN/Disney.

To make sense of USC moving it would have to involve a pretty steep cut back in their schedule for P12 schools otherwise it really doesn't make sense to move to independence yet still play a P12 loaded schedule and if ESPN were the power broker pushing things behind the scenes then it would further make sense that it would be with a more ESPN friendly national schedule where they play more schools residing within the ESPN footprint which leaves little room for USC to continue playing P12 schools outside UCLA and likely Cal/Stanford.

Without football the rest of P12 (assuming USC was the sole defector) would immediately move to expel USC from the conference in all other aspects. SC asking to stay in the P12 after the fact would be like your wife/husband telling you they want a divorce and that they have started seeing other people while also asking if they could still live in your house.

The Big 12 is home to a collection of schools that the decision makers of USC would have little interest in associating with. Most people put the emphasis on the academic snobbery within the P12 largely at the feet of Stanford and the UC schools but USC (and others) has always carried the same mindset as those 3 have.

We're quickly coming to a point where both the PAC or Big Ten's market power would be overwhelmed by a corporate structure whose values are nearly opposite of our values. As much regional pride in both we're not going to last long as separate entities. Programs would be more incentivized to act on their own interest unless we put our heads together and make it worthwhile to stay.

Add to this the fact that FOX is cutting overhead in its sports department, a sign which can either mean they intend to sell it, or intend to invest in a new asset, and it makes the timing of what the PAC 12 and B1G want to do all the more critical.

You aren't working against the machinations of the SEC, ACC, and likely NB12, your interests diverge from the machinations of ESPN/Disney. That's what fans that hate other conferences don't get. We have 2 groups of schools, those who have been assimilated into the BorgMouse collective and those who have so far eluded them. Conferences are merely tools for the assembly of product. It just depends upon whether ESPN can find the pressure point on each school which exceeds their ability to resist.

The entity which replaces the NCAA already exists. It is ESPN, and they are only interested in part of D1.

I said the exact same a few years ago. I got the usual "conspiracy theorist" speech.

(04-07-2022 10:19 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 07:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 06:28 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 05:34 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 04:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It would be more like the B12 if they had to do so. Swimming & Diving, Track & Field, Gymnastics, etc. could be accommodated within the ESPN family. Odds are the PAC which would still want and need games with them for exposure and legitimacy would keep the Olympic Sports and other non revenues. Remember the PAC schools need exposure in B12, SEC, and ACC regions if they are to up their profile and USC is a flagship program for the PAC. If they lost them it is USC which would have a lot of leverage. The "Alliance" rankled a lot of feelings. Those 3 conferences within ESPN could easily cut the PAC out of scheduling and play fully within their larger region and all monies would stay with ESPN/Disney.

To make sense of USC moving it would have to involve a pretty steep cut back in their schedule for P12 schools otherwise it really doesn't make sense to move to independence yet still play a P12 loaded schedule and if ESPN were the power broker pushing things behind the scenes then it would further make sense that it would be with a more ESPN friendly national schedule where they play more schools residing within the ESPN footprint which leaves little room for USC to continue playing P12 schools outside UCLA and likely Cal/Stanford.

Without football the rest of P12 (assuming USC was the sole defector) would immediately move to expel USC from the conference in all other aspects. SC asking to stay in the P12 after the fact would be like your wife/husband telling you they want a divorce and that they have started seeing other people while also asking if they could still live in your house.

The Big 12 is home to a collection of schools that the decision makers of USC would have little interest in associating with. Most people put the emphasis on the academic snobbery within the P12 largely at the feet of Stanford and the UC schools but USC (and others) has always carried the same mindset as those 3 have.

We're quickly coming to a point where both the PAC or Big Ten's market power would be overwhelmed by a corporate structure whose values are nearly opposite of our values. As much regional pride in both we're not going to last long as separate entities. Programs would be more incentivized to act on their own interest unless we put our heads together and make it worthwhile to stay.

Add to this the fact that FOX is cutting overhead in its sports department, a sign which can either mean they intend to sell it, or intend to invest in a new asset, and it makes the timing of what the PAC 12 and B1G want to do all the more critical.

You aren't working against the machinations of the SEC, ACC, and likely NB12, your interests diverge from the machinations of ESPN/Disney. That's what fans that hate other conferences don't get. We have 2 groups of schools, those who have been assimilated into the BorgMouse collective and those who have so far eluded them. Conferences are merely tools for the assembly of product. It just depends upon whether ESPN can find the pressure point on each school which exceeds their ability to resist.

The entity which replaces the NCAA already exists. It is ESPN, and they are only interested in part of D1.

I said the exact same a few years ago. I got the usual "conspiracy theorist" speech.

There are some conspiracy theories out there. But, most of the time those who shout "Conspiracy Theory" have a vested interest in simply suppressing the truth. I don't think anyone should be shocked at the power over college sports that ESPN is wielding, nor should they be surprised that they want more. Professionalize it, and pay for play will, and a corporate for profit entity is perfect for a governing body.

(04-07-2022 10:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 10:19 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 07:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 06:28 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 05:34 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  To make sense of USC moving it would have to involve a pretty steep cut back in their schedule for P12 schools otherwise it really doesn't make sense to move to independence yet still play a P12 loaded schedule and if ESPN were the power broker pushing things behind the scenes then it would further make sense that it would be with a more ESPN friendly national schedule where they play more schools residing within the ESPN footprint which leaves little room for USC to continue playing P12 schools outside UCLA and likely Cal/Stanford.

Without football the rest of P12 (assuming USC was the sole defector) would immediately move to expel USC from the conference in all other aspects. SC asking to stay in the P12 after the fact would be like your wife/husband telling you they want a divorce and that they have started seeing other people while also asking if they could still live in your house.

The Big 12 is home to a collection of schools that the decision makers of USC would have little interest in associating with. Most people put the emphasis on the academic snobbery within the P12 largely at the feet of Stanford and the UC schools but USC (and others) has always carried the same mindset as those 3 have.

We're quickly coming to a point where both the PAC or Big Ten's market power would be overwhelmed by a corporate structure whose values are nearly opposite of our values. As much regional pride in both we're not going to last long as separate entities. Programs would be more incentivized to act on their own interest unless we put our heads together and make it worthwhile to stay.

Add to this the fact that FOX is cutting overhead in its sports department, a sign which can either mean they intend to sell it, or intend to invest in a new asset, and it makes the timing of what the PAC 12 and B1G want to do all the more critical.

You aren't working against the machinations of the SEC, ACC, and likely NB12, your interests diverge from the machinations of ESPN/Disney. That's what fans that hate other conferences don't get. We have 2 groups of schools, those who have been assimilated into the BorgMouse collective and those who have so far eluded them. Conferences are merely tools for the assembly of product. It just depends upon whether ESPN can find the pressure point on each school which exceeds their ability to resist.

The entity which replaces the NCAA already exists. It is ESPN, and they are only interested in part of D1.

I said the exact same a few years ago. I got the usual "conspiracy theorist" speech.

There are some conspiracy theories out there. But, most of the time those who shout "Conspiracy Theory" have a vested interest in simply suppressing the truth. I don't think anyone should be shocked at the power over college sports that ESPN is wielding, nor should they be surprised that they want more. Professionalize it, and pay for play will, and a corporate for profit entity is perfect for a governing body.

People just couldn't see what was already happening.

Throwing out an alternative here: if UVA/UNC/Duke still want power but aren’t satisfied with ACC cash, could we see a partial merger of say 9 ACC schools and 9 PAC 12 schools into an AMERICAN Coast Conference?

You have a Pacific Division and an Atlantic division with minimal inter divisional games except for the conference tournaments but a shared tv contract that maximizes time slots.

(04-08-2022 04:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Throwing out an alternative here: if UVA/UNC/Duke still want power but aren’t satisfied with ACC cash, could we see a partial merger of say 9 ACC schools and 9 PAC 12 schools into an AMERICAN Coast Conference?

You have a Pacific Division and an Atlantic division with minimal inter divisional games except for the conference tournaments but a shared tv contract that maximizes time slots.

You have a monstrous cultural difference that would be nigh impossible to cross. West Coast Academics and Administrators are more alien to most of the ACC as the loudest, brashest, Syracuse or Duke Yankee.

I suspect that only Duke and Notre Dame could put up with the California 4 as well as Oregon and Washington.

(04-08-2022 04:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Throwing out an alternative here: if UVA/UNC/Duke still want power but aren’t satisfied with ACC cash, could we see a partial merger of say 9 ACC schools and 9 PAC 12 schools into an AMERICAN Coast Conference?

You have a Pacific Division and an Atlantic division with minimal inter divisional games except for the conference tournaments but a shared tv contract that maximizes time slots.

So like a feeble Alliance 2.0? Not much of anything, but thinking it will work and add value to ACC and Pac 12.

It would be a lot of pain for not much gain. Still joining a new conference. Kicking out members on each conference, all to just play 1 regular season game and have the conference regular season champs play? Where’s the value multipliers needed? The Pac12 still has the Pac12 schedule problem. The ACC still irrelevant to even their own fans too.

The only tangible benefit is cutting the fat by 3 schools. But why wouldn’t the Pac12 do that now, then get a kill what you eat division in the BIG, keeping the Rose Bowl as a conference title game and part of CFP?

If you’re going to get crazy and join a new conference with many of your current peers, joining the P2 and making real money becomes more appealing.

(04-07-2022 03:55 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 03:29 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 09:48 AM)b2b Wrote:  A true merger of the P12 and B10 would be really interesting. What if you could get 2 divisions of 14 or 4 pods of 7? Add BYU and Notre Dame... shift Nebraska to the west to reunite them with Colorado maybe??? Nebraska is kind of in no man's land either way.

9 AAU is more than enough.

The Pac 12 needs to become less Pac12. They need to be integrated into the BIG. That’s more difficult the larger the number.

8 or 9 maintains most logistics and conventions, while rolling the Pac12 inventory under the BIG revenue mechanisms.

Adding 6 would be better value, but is probably too lean on logistics, too isolating, and difficult for intraconference groupings.

Exactly. And the 9 AAU PAC schools attract the big money prize, Notre Dame, the acquisition of which closes backdoor advertising in B10 cities and adds nearly 1 billion in commercial value above the ad revenue increases.

What's lost on most here is that culturally these are better fits than the Tobacco Road Trio.

14 B1G + 9 Pac + ND = a true American Athletic Conference...though they'd never take that name. Or the Big 24.

These are absolutely better fits than the Tobacco Road group. The Pac is culturally a western version of the B1G already, only 2-3 time zones behind.

Arizona State, Oregon State, and Washington State are left behind in this scenario, and end up joining the Big 12.

Honestly, even though ASU isn't an AAU member, I think the B1G would still take them to get into Phoenix, especially if we can't get ND.

25 wouldn't be a terrible number, but I think it would set us up for 30-32 (assuming we join forces with the PAC if we can UNC, Duke, UVA, GT, and Kansas/Miami. I don't see us taking Iowa St., Pittsburgh, or Boston College as some suggest, but maybe Syracuse if we're pushing for 32.