(01-17-2022 10:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We spend more per pupil on education than any other country and our results are at best mediocre.

Wasn't that the same reasoning used to describe our health care system as "failed" in order to justify Obamacare? And our health care was not nearly as bad as our education. So why aren't the democrats who called our health care system "failed" saying the same about education? T-E-A-C-H-E-R-S U-N-I-O-N-S.

Exactly!

In the 50s the American public education system led the world.

The 60s saw disastrous social movements which began the gradual destruction of that institution as it related to imparting knowledge.

Now we not only trail in reading, math and science; we're way down the list.

Yes, teacher unions are a big problem. So is the field of education studies. Academicians have a failed view of how education should be implemented.

A failed view in the sense that the results of American students rank among the worst in the industrialized world. But if their objectives are NOT world-best rankings among reading, math and science; but are actually to transform the social and cultural values from traditional to radical then they're doing a bang-up job!

(01-17-2022 07:49 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 03:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 01:09 AM)banker Wrote:  When everything is a war, everything is a weapon. Liberals believe everything is some dire crisis and will use anything, like your children, to fight it.

Will you please quit calling them liberals?

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Liberals believe in small government, liberty, and individual rights. Leftists don't. I'm a liberal. Communists, socialists--and democrats--are leftists, not liberals. Calling them liberals implies that they deserve some moral high ground. They don't.

Yet another word the prog filth have corrupted

Well they mostly call themselves "progressives" now.

(01-17-2022 01:45 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 10:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We spend more per pupil on education than any other country and our results are at best mediocre.

Wasn't that the same reasoning used to describe our health care system as "failed" in order to justify Obamacare? And our health care was not nearly as bad as our education. So why aren't the democrats who called our health care system "failed" saying the same about education? T-E-A-C-H-E-R-S U-N-I-O-N-S.

Exactly!

In the 50s the American public education system led the world.

The 60s saw disastrous social movements which began the gradual destruction of that institution as it related to imparting knowledge.

Now we not only trail in reading, math and science; we're way down the list.

Yes, teacher unions are a big problem. So is the field of education studies. Academicians have a failed view of how education should be implemented.

A failed view in the sense that the results of American students rank among the worst in the industrialized world. But if their objectives are NOT world-best rankings among reading, math and science; but are actually to transform the social and cultural values from traditional to radical then they're doing a bang-up job!

One of the unfortunate consequences of the women's movement is that the best and brightest women rarely go into teaching anymore. It used to be the opposite.

(01-17-2022 02:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 01:45 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 10:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We spend more per pupil on education than any other country and our results are at best mediocre.

Wasn't that the same reasoning used to describe our health care system as "failed" in order to justify Obamacare? And our health care was not nearly as bad as our education. So why aren't the democrats who called our health care system "failed" saying the same about education? T-E-A-C-H-E-R-S U-N-I-O-N-S.

Exactly!

In the 50s the American public education system led the world.

The 60s saw disastrous social movements which began the gradual destruction of that institution as it related to imparting knowledge.

Now we not only trail in reading, math and science; we're way down the list.

Yes, teacher unions are a big problem. So is the field of education studies. Academicians have a failed view of how education should be implemented.

A failed view in the sense that the results of American students rank among the worst in the industrialized world. But if their objectives are NOT world-best rankings among reading, math and science; but are actually to transform the social and cultural values from traditional to radical then they're doing a bang-up job!

One of the unfortunate consequences of the women's movement is that the best and brightest women rarely go into teaching anymore. It used to be the opposite.

This is true.

Also, the focus of education has changed sharply. Instead of teaching the "three R's" they now focus on social justice issues.

But this should be no surprise. This has been their ideology since the early 20th century.

Quote:ARTICLE FIVE. THE SCHOOL AND SOCIAL PROGRESS

I believe that education is the fundamental method of social progress and reform.

I believe that all reforms which rest simply upon the enactment of law, or the threatening of certain penalties, or upon changes in mechanical or outward arrangements, are transitory and futile.

I believe that education is a regulation of the process of coming to share in the social consciousness; and that the adjustment of individual activity on the basis of this social consciousness is the only sure method of social reconstruction.

I believe that this conception has due regard for both the individualistic and socialistic ideals. It is duly individual because it recognizes the formation of a certain character as the only genuine basis of right living. It is socialistic because it recognizes that this right character is not to be formed by merely individual precept, example, or exhortation, but rather by the influence of a certain form of institutional or community life upon the individual, and that the social organism through the school, as its organ, may determine ethical results.

I believe that in the ideal school we have the reconciliation of the individualistic and the institutional ideals.

I believe that the community's duty to education is, therefore, its paramount moral duty. By law and punishment, by social agitation and discussion, society can regulate and form itself in a more or less haphazard and chance way. But through education society can formulate its own purposes, can organize its own means and resources, and thus shape itself with definiteness and economy in the direction in which it wishes to move.

I believe that when society once recognizes the possibilities in this direction, and the obligations which these possibilities impose, it is impossible to conceive of the resources of time, attention, and money which will be put at the disposal of the educator.

I believe it is the business of every one interested in education to insist upon the school as the primary and most effective instrument of social progress and reform in order that society may be awakened to realize what the school stands for, and aroused to the necessity of endowing the educator with sufficient equipment properly to perform his task.

I believe that education thus conceived marks the most perfect and intimate union of science and art conceivable in human experience.

I believe that the art of thus giving shape to human powers and adapting them to social service, is the supreme art; one calling into its service the best of artists; that no insight, sympathy, tact, executive power is too great for such service.

I believe that with the growth of psychological science, giving added insight into individual structure and laws of growth; and with growth of social science, adding to our knowledge of the right organization of individuals, all scientific resources can be utilized for the purposes of education.

I believe that when science and art thus join hands the most commanding motive for human action will be reached; the most genuine springs of human conduct aroused and the best service that human nature is capable of guaranteed.

I believe, finally, that the teacher is engaged, not simply in the training of individuals, but in the formation of the proper social life.

I believe that every teacher should realize the dignity of his calling; that he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of proper social order and the securing of the right social growth.

I believe that in this way the teacher always is the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of God.

My Pedagogic Creed
by John Dewey
School Journal vol. 54 (January 1897), pp. 77-80

It's true about how much more was taught to us in school in the 50s and 60s. Heck, in grammar school I was doing work that not even high schoolers do today or ten years ago. Perhaps, it's the city where they come from that is culpable. Even though El Paso is a Demoncratically run city old style ethics still dominate. It must be because of our ethnicity. Hispanics value education and are not that socially cognizant of the rest of the US. I know my sons and their cousins are not or have not become Progs. You will be hard pressed to see teens or twentiers looking like the ones that you see in other cities like Portland, Seattle and other Prog cities. I know parents have a lot to do with that. Our mantra is "while you're in our home you will do as I say and you can do whatever you want when you leave". I know I instilled that believe in my sons and they in turn do it to theirs.