(09-28-2021 08:42 AM)Bawlmer Duke Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 07:51 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Many. It was directly anti-Christian, for whatever reason (does that matter?) A friend of mine was involved in the fight against this - they were asking for moral consistency from the admin. Yet Jewish and Muslim events were allowed on campus with no interference or song-monitoring. How's that right?

It doesn't matter to me at all. I went to JMU from 2001-2005. Nothing that has occurred on that campus since I left has made an impact on my life, so I do not get worked up over what could be debated as right or wrong / this or that.

I am a socially open minded atheist so don't label me as the new worst of the worst labels, "a Christian white male."

I don't care about a Christmas song being banned because I like Christmas songs. I do care about the agenda behind the Christmas tree banning. It's the tip of the liberal propaganda via educational institutions iceberg.

Is taking the American Flag out of buildings next? Of course, the apologists would claim Alger did not know anything about it because he has better things to do and there would be no follow up (JMU's invisible man(person) defense).

Speaking of, has Tim Roberts (may be wrong with the name) followed up the orientation subject that had to be paused?

Seems like an event that requires a very visible public response is deserving of a follow up comment from the admin., the President.

(09-28-2021 09:05 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 08:42 AM)Bawlmer Duke Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 07:51 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Many. It was directly anti-Christian, for whatever reason (does that matter?) A friend of mine was involved in the fight against this - they were asking for moral consistency from the admin. Yet Jewish and Muslim events were allowed on campus with no interference or song-monitoring. How's that right?

It doesn't matter to me at all. I went to JMU from 2001-2005. Nothing that has occurred on that campus since I left has made an impact on my life, so I do not get worked up over what could be debated as right or wrong / this or that.

I am a socially open minded atheist so don't label me as the new worst of the worst labels, "a Christian white male."

I don't care about a Christmas song being banned because I like Christmas songs. I do care about the agenda behind the Christmas tree banning. It's the tip of the liberal propaganda via educational institutions iceberg.

Is taking the American Flag out of buildings next? Of course, the apologists would claim Alger did not know anything about it because he has better things to do and there would be no follow up (JMU's invisible man(person) defense).

Speaking of, has Tim Roberts (may be wrong with the name) followed up the orientation subject that had to be paused?

Seems like an event that requires a very visible public response is deserving of a follow up comment from the admin., the President.

Any public or government institution should have no religious influence (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, etc) at all. There's a reason this country was founded on separate church and state and I think people forget that

(09-27-2021 04:52 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 12:22 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 11:29 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 10:52 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 10:09 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Can you provide examples where President Alger has demonstrated that he is super liberal? I’m not arguing the point that folks are making I just suspect there is a narrative about President Alger that has been promulgated on these boards that he is ultra liberal or extreme that I believe is inaccurate. People like to size other people up and fit them in a box I’m just challenging that assessment.

First, I am not making a political statement here. I am just answering your question with the information I have, all of which is second-hand.

Many have said that it is a well-known fact that Alger is ultra-liberal, which is OK, but he shouldn't be wearing it on his sleeve. He should have the appearance, at least, of being apolitical.

The most damning evidence that Alger is ultra-liberal is the nationwide news a month or so ago involving the freshman orientation. He certainly had to personally approve this or approve of it. As far as I know, there was no retraction, denial, or apology. I have not seen the news piece on the scandal. Maybe someone can post it. However, if true, that would certainly be strong evidence, if not proof, that Jon Alger is so far left that you can't see him from here.

Is that fact or opinion? I really hope our president is not wasting time reviewing and approving a single 25 minute training given to student volunteers' that are a part of a 1 week program.

He's not but for some reason people think he should be

There are hundreds of divisions at JMU, and all of them have some sort of onboarding component. Rest assured Alger doesn't make or review the PowerPoints for any of them

Point taken. It just seems to me that what incoming freshman are being told is very important, important enough for that particular training to have been flagged by someone, somewhere along the way between the freshmen being indoctrinated and Jon Alger. I consider it negligence of the highest order for that to not have happened. Fox didn't have any trouble finding it. There should have been a large doo-doo ball rolling downhill from Alger's office. As far as I know, there were no terminations or even reprimands, or at least none reported. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are continuing to make incorrect statements as if they are facts. The incoming freshman were not told anything from this training. It was the complete opposite situation. Do yourself a favor and just delete your inaccurate posts as you do with your blog. Your ignorance is the only thing that is negligent.

(09-28-2021 09:10 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Any public or government institution should have no religious influence (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, etc) at all. There's a reason this country was founded on separate church and state and I think people forget that

Oddly enough.....I vote in a small country church and have for 20+ years.

(09-28-2021 09:10 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Any public or government institution should have no religious influence (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, etc) at all. There's a reason this country was founded on separate church and state and I think people forget that

We were founded on government not favoring any one religion over any of the other. The founders had come from a tradition where the Anglican church received state support and those who stood apart from that had, in very recent memory to them, experienced discrimination of various kinds. Most would not have believed that, for example, people shouldn't take their personal religious beliefs into account when making decisions as voters or as politicians.

(09-28-2021 09:10 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Any public or government institution should have no religious influence (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, etc) at all. There's a reason this country was founded on separate church and state and I think people forget that

I don't disagree.

I would go a step further and say public institutions should have no political influence....teach math, science and chemistry and leave the political social agendas, left or right, up or down at the door.

The anti-christian agenda is palpable.

Consistently correct or consistently wrong - is better than singling out. That's what JMU (repped by Alger) did on this one, and that's uncool (I say this as an athiest). Ban them all or ban none.

Alger is responsible - he sets the tone, owns messaging, and hires people that hire people that have allowed a series of pretty bad mis-steps

(09-28-2021 10:07 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 09:10 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Any public or government institution should have no religious influence (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, etc) at all. There's a reason this country was founded on separate church and state and I think people forget that

I don't disagree.

I would go a step further and say public institutions should have no political influence....teach math, science and chemistry and leave the political social agendas, left or right, up or down at the door.

The anti-christian agenda is palpable.

Im fine with teaching how the political system works and let kids decide for themselves but agree with not teaching any specific agenda. James Madison himself (as well as the other founding fathers) wrote of the dangers of creating political parties fearing they would lead to dissension which is exactly the position we are in today

Madison was not a fan of parties...yes. He wrote that the best way to protect individuals and minorities from the gov/major party was to have millions of people competing for their own self interest

Alger should not have been renewed.

(09-28-2021 10:25 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Consistently correct or consistently wrong - is better than singling out. That's what JMU (repped by Alger) did on this one, and that's uncool (I say this as an athiest). Ban them all or ban none.

Alger is responsible - he sets the tone, owns messaging, and hires people that hire people that have allowed a series of pretty bad mis-steps

Exactly....it is not him personally reviewing everything....but it is the culture and tone that he has set and created via a combination of actions and hiring decisions.

(09-28-2021 09:16 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 04:52 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 12:22 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 11:29 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 10:52 AM)Purple Wrote:  First, I am not making a political statement here. I am just answering your question with the information I have, all of which is second-hand.

Many have said that it is a well-known fact that Alger is ultra-liberal, which is OK, but he shouldn't be wearing it on his sleeve. He should have the appearance, at least, of being apolitical.

The most damning evidence that Alger is ultra-liberal is the nationwide news a month or so ago involving the freshman orientation. He certainly had to personally approve this or approve of it. As far as I know, there was no retraction, denial, or apology. I have not seen the news piece on the scandal. Maybe someone can post it. However, if true, that would certainly be strong evidence, if not proof, that Jon Alger is so far left that you can't see him from here.

Is that fact or opinion? I really hope our president is not wasting time reviewing and approving a single 25 minute training given to student volunteers' that are a part of a 1 week program.

He's not but for some reason people think he should be

There are hundreds of divisions at JMU, and all of them have some sort of onboarding component. Rest assured Alger doesn't make or review the PowerPoints for any of them

Point taken. It just seems to me that what incoming freshman are being told is very important, important enough for that particular training to have been flagged by someone, somewhere along the way between the freshmen being indoctrinated and Jon Alger. I consider it negligence of the highest order for that to not have happened. Fox didn't have any trouble finding it. There should have been a large doo-doo ball rolling downhill from Alger's office. As far as I know, there were no terminations or even reprimands, or at least none reported. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are continuing to make incorrect statements as if they are facts. The incoming freshman were not told anything from this training. It was the complete opposite situation. Do yourself a favor and just delete your inaccurate posts as you do with your blog. Your ignorance is the only thing that is negligent.

Well, explain this video, then tell me who the ignorant one is. And, please try doing it without being a total a$$hole. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Fox video on scandalous JMU training

(09-28-2021 04:47 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 09:16 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 04:52 PM)Purple Wrote:  Point taken. It just seems to me that what incoming freshman are being told is very important, important enough for that particular training to have been flagged by someone, somewhere along the way between the freshmen being indoctrinated and Jon Alger. I consider it negligence of the highest order for that to not have happened. Fox didn't have any trouble finding it. There should have been a large doo-doo ball rolling downhill from Alger's office. As far as I know, there were no terminations or even reprimands, or at least none reported. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are continuing to make incorrect statements as if they are facts. The incoming freshman were not told anything from this training. It was the complete opposite situation. Do yourself a favor and just delete your inaccurate posts as you do with your blog. Your ignorance is the only thing that is negligent.

Well, explain this video, then tell me who the ignorant one is. And, please try doing it without being a total a$$hole. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Fox video on scandalous JMU training

The training was not given to freshman students. It was given to FROGs. FROGs aren't freshman. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said "freshman were not told anything from this training" but I was linking back to your statement that "what incoming freshman are being told." I added some unneeded ambiguity when I could have just said "Freshmen weren't indoctrination by a training as they didn't receive said training."

It is all spelled out in the first sentence of your own source.

Quote:James Madison University is under fire for pushing controversial rhetoric as part of its freshmen orientation training for student leaders.

To be crystal clear, freshman weren't told anything. FROGs were being trained (perhaps badly) on how to be more inclusive to new students from different cultures/backgrounds/experiences/etc. They were given guidance on how to listen to, not how to indoctrinate, freshman. Like I said, it was literally the complete opposite of your statement and your own source confirms that.

COA Letter
Backward Cowboy Hat
No Christmas at Christmas
Richmond-less
Bad Handshake
Handling of Building re-name (arguable good or bad, IDK)
White Devil Training

That's a lot......even if the endowment was much bigger at this point

(09-28-2021 05:27 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 04:47 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 09:16 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 04:52 PM)Purple Wrote:  Point taken. It just seems to me that what incoming freshman are being told is very important, important enough for that particular training to have been flagged by someone, somewhere along the way between the freshmen being indoctrinated and Jon Alger. I consider it negligence of the highest order for that to not have happened. Fox didn't have any trouble finding it. There should have been a large doo-doo ball rolling downhill from Alger's office. As far as I know, there were no terminations or even reprimands, or at least none reported. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are continuing to make incorrect statements as if they are facts. The incoming freshman were not told anything from this training. It was the complete opposite situation. Do yourself a favor and just delete your inaccurate posts as you do with your blog. Your ignorance is the only thing that is negligent.

Well, explain this video, then tell me who the ignorant one is. And, please try doing it without being a total a$$hole. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Fox video on scandalous JMU training

The training was not given to freshman students. It was given to FROGs. FROGs aren't freshman. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said "freshman were not told anything from this training" but I was linking back to your statement that "what incoming freshman are being told." I added some unneeded ambiguity when I could have just said "Freshmen weren't indoctrination by a training as they didn't receive said training."

It is all spelled out in the first sentence of your own source.

Quote:James Madison University is under fire for pushing controversial rhetoric as part of its freshmen orientation training for student leaders.

To be crystal clear, freshman weren't told anything. FROGs were being trained (perhaps badly) on how to be more inclusive to new students from different cultures/backgrounds/experiences/etc. They were given guidance on how to listen to, not how to indoctrinate, freshman. Like I said, it was literally the complete opposite of your statement and your own source confirms that.

BS! This is Fox's intro to the story.... "Aug. 25, 2021 - 4:22 - JMU College Republicans chairwoman Juliana McGrath shares her concerns with controversial diversity, equity and inclusion training for first-year students."

Now, who's ignorant? McGrath also said that she knows of students who quit JMU over the feeling of being unwelcome (told that they are white Christian oppressors). It is SICK and Jon Alger is to blame! He can hide behind underlings all he wants. The first thing a military leader is taught is that he or she is responsible for everything his or her unit does or does not do.

As for deleting articles from my blog, thanks for reading, and yeah, I delete an article now and then. It's called a "retraction" in the journalism business and every ethical journalist has to do it now and then, except those who work for the likes of CNN, CBS, NBC, and other members of the Alphabet Network Club. They simply don't mention the erroneous article again and wait for it to go away.

Imagine being this worked up all the time over things you can’t control.

(09-28-2021 08:36 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  ... students that are conservative or conservative-christian do not feel comfortable sharing their opinions in many classes and settings on campus for fear of being blasted by their peers and/or retribution from their professors. This should not be the case at all, everyone should be free to express their ideas in an open and free setting in college. But that is not the case these days at JMU.

This is so not true. It is definitely not the case at JMU.

(09-29-2021 03:06 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(09-28-2021 08:36 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  ... students that are conservative or conservative-christian do not feel comfortable sharing their opinions in many classes and settings on campus for fear of being blasted by their peers and/or retribution from their professors. This should not be the case at all, everyone should be free to express their ideas in an open and free setting in college. But that is not the case these days at JMU.

This is so not true. It is definitely not the case at JMU.

Agree. I had several roommates that were hardcore conservative. Never once did they complain about feeling uncomfortable about sharing their opinions. Nor did I ever see anyone blasting them for their opinions.
I was never involved in politics at JMU and if anything I saw way more active conservative groups than liberal.

(09-27-2021 04:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 02:20 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(09-27-2021 01:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  It wasn’t just the renaming of buildings- it was also the way it was done. There was the unecessary rush of immediately using temporary names, then coming up with the new names 7 months or so later. The old names could have simply been kept until the new ones were chosen. 7 more months of building names that had been there for a century more or less, wasn’t going to make a difference to those who weren’t super liberal.

Two things here.

1) This seems like a very odd quibble. If 7 months wasn't going to make a difference, what difference did that span make with temporary names?

It's basically the same as Washington Football Team. A decision was reached that, gee, we should probably change a name that isn't consistent with the values of our institution. What you change that name to is inherently going to take a little time. But the first decision doesn't inherently hinge on the second decision.

2) "In July 2020 the BOV voted unanimously to remove the names of three Confederate military leaders from buildings in the bluestone section of campus. At that time, temporary names for these buildings were assigned with the understanding that a process would take place to recommend new building names. To provide recommendations for permanent renaming, the 47-member Campus History Committee received extensive input from members of the campus and extended community. Recommendations were developed over the course of several months, and they were shared with university leadership for consideration and review."
https://www.jmu.edu/news/2021/02/19-bov-...amed.shtml

Why ascribe this decision to Alger, when 15 of 15 BOV members made this decision? Is the implication that they're all Alger's lackeys?

There would have neen zero harm leaving the century old names for an additional 7 months or so until the new names were selected.

The harm is obvious. You're being deliberately obtuse. More importantly, I eagerly await your response to my second question as to how this even applies to Alger in the first place with a unanimous decision executed by the BOV.