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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 11:34 AM)91Dawg Wrote:  I know very little about Alger, but he lost me the first time I shook his hand. I suspect many who have shaken hands with him know what I'm talking about, unless he's received a little coaching.

amen.....dead fish shake anyone.....
09-27-2021 01:36 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 12:30 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 11:20 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:52 AM)Purple Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:09 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Can you provide examples where President Alger has demonstrated that he is super liberal? I’m not arguing the point that folks are making I just suspect there is a narrative about President Alger that has been promulgated on these boards that he is ultra liberal or extreme that I believe is inaccurate. People like to size other people up and fit them in a box I’m just challenging that assessment.

First, I am not making a political statement here. I am just answering your question with the information I have, all of which is second-hand.

Many have said that it is a well-known fact that Alger is ultra-liberal, which is OK, but he shouldn't be wearing it on his sleeve. He should have the appearance, at least, of being apolitical.

The most damning evidence that Alger is ultra-liberal is the nationwide news a month or so ago involving the freshman orientation. He certainly had to personally approve this or approve of it. As far as I know, there was no retraction, denial, or apology. I have not seen the news piece on the scandal. Maybe someone can post it. However, if true, that would certainly be strong evidence, if not proof, that Jon Alger is so far left that you can't see him from here.

NJDukes, I'm also curious.

The interactions I've had with people who are Anti-Alger are so far right they just don't like him personally. I'm thinking of folks such as Joe Showker. I'm not knocking Joe necessarily - we have a good friendship & professional relationship - but you don't have to scroll too far into his twitter account to see he shares some very uneducated takes and lots of ultra conservative media propaganda. Beyond Joe and Jeff Tickle's rant to the BoV I haven't heard of other donors heading for the hills. And for each of those who disagree with Alger, there is someone like the Hartman's who are stepping up and putting their names on buildings, so it's not fair to say that everyone hates Alger and his leadership or direction.

Alger was not behind the inclusion training that Fox News wrote about in August. He hadn't seen the training. If anybody here thinks Alger has time or should be reviewing these kinds of things for student orientation, you aren't aware of the responsibilities at his level. Orientation falls under Tim Miller, who took responsibility for the training, apologized, and committed to finding out what happened and what should be done better. From what I know, Tim also didn't see the training before it was distributed. Leaders trust their people to do their jobs; in this case I think there was room for improvement and I trust JMU will learn and do better next time. I expect JMU to do better with these kinds of things - the August incident was not handled well in my opinion. And that responsibility does rest at the top of the org chart.

I also don't think that Alger "wears it on his sleeve". I see him as one who is in favor of inclusion and creating an environment where anybody can be welcomed at JMU. I am not standing up for him (after all I am an apologist right?). I don't think he's done anything wrong at JMU... I just think he's better at policy making in an oversized suit than he is at socializing with people. Could we do better for a University President? Sure. Could we do worse? You betcha. He seems average, and if you think we should be doing better, I don't disagree with you but I think we're doing alright. There are a lot of great things happening at James Madison University.


I appreciate your insights here, but when make statements like the one below, your true colors really come through. It’s one thing to have a different opinion or views but to say you’re not knocking someone personally and then suggest that their views are uneducated because they differ than yours is a pretty immature thing to say. I sure hope I don’t have any “good friends” that would go on a message board that I didn’t post on and throw my name out there and say something like this just because our views on politics and other things differ.

“I'm not knocking Joe necessarily - we have a good friendship & professional relationship - but you don't have to scroll too far into his twitter account to see he shares some very uneducated takes and lots of ultra conservative media propaganda.”

I apologize for being unclear. I did not mean that Joe is uneducated (that is not what I said), but rather that some of his material that he retweets (shares) is very uneducated (and furthermore, narrowminded). Joe is a sharp guy. He's smarter than the material he's sharing.
09-27-2021 01:38 PM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 01:08 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Perhaps we should just leave individual's names out of this discussion? We're all on this board because we support JMU athletics.

right, i failed to see the point and seemed like running over someone with a bus just because
09-27-2021 01:39 PM
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CarRamrod Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 12:52 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 12:30 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  “I'm not knocking Joe necessarily - we have a good friendship & professional relationship - but you don't have to scroll too far into his twitter account to see he shares some very uneducated takes and lots of ultra conservative media propaganda.”

Well, can't avoid the politics on this one. Sorry.

I haven't seen Joe Showker's thread, but if, for example, he's retweeting things like "Ivermectin is safer than the Covid vaccine", "Covid is just the flu", or "there was widespread voter fraud in Arizona", that's uneducated. Those things are provably false, readily confirmed or denied, and if someone shares those on social media, that's as uneducated a take as "the earth is flat".

Not sure if its uneducated (I would imagine he has access to good info/data). It definitely is unscientific, possibly anti-scientific, and definitely pro-magical thinking.
09-27-2021 01:40 PM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 01:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:09 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Can you provide examples where President Alger has demonstrated that he is super liberal? I’m not arguing the point that folks are making I just suspect there is a narrative about President Alger that has been promulgated on these boards that he is ultra liberal or extreme that I believe is inaccurate. People like to size other people up and fit them in a box I’m just challenging that assessment.
It wasn’t just the renaming of buildings- it was also the way it was done. There was the unecessary rush of immediately using temporary names, then coming up with the new names 7 months or so later. The old names could have simply been kept until the new ones were chosen. 7 more months of building names that had been there for a century more or less, wasn’t going to make a difference to those who weren’t super liberal.

and could have just kept to new/temporary names forever b/c they would never offend anyone.
09-27-2021 01:41 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 01:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:09 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Can you provide examples where President Alger has demonstrated that he is super liberal? I’m not arguing the point that folks are making I just suspect there is a narrative about President Alger that has been promulgated on these boards that he is ultra liberal or extreme that I believe is inaccurate. People like to size other people up and fit them in a box I’m just challenging that assessment.
It wasn’t just the renaming of buildings- it was also the way it was done. There was the unecessary rush of immediately using temporary names, then coming up with the new names 7 months or so later. The old names could have simply been kept until the new ones were chosen. 7 more months of building names that had been there for a century more or less, wasn’t going to make a difference to those who weren’t super liberal.

Your take is one way that the situation could have been handled. The opposing opinion, that confederate leaders who dedicated their lives to the overthrow of the United States government (that we all enjoy today) have no place being honored and memorialized on JMU's campus (or anywhere else for that matter) should be immediately removed, or never named that way in the first place, is a view that exists as well. Students have been petitioning to have these buildings renamed since the 90s but it took until 2020 for it to happen. You label it as "unnecessary" but there are many others who would say it was very necessary.
09-27-2021 01:46 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 01:39 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 01:08 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Perhaps we should just leave individual's names out of this discussion? We're all on this board because we support JMU athletics.

right, i failed to see the point and seemed like running over someone with a bus just because

That is fair. But if these figures are going to pen open letters to the Breeze, comment in news media, etc, isn't it fair game to discuss their positions?
09-27-2021 01:48 PM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Alger renewed
I’m not on the BOV so I couldn’t vote. I’ve have had more than enough interactions with Alger since he took office to know he is not someone I am proud of as the prez of JMU. The initial listening tour and the president’s council gave me all the info I needed to see he was not the man for the job.

The renewal is a statement that the BOV actually thinks he is doing a good job.
For academics - good enough and I only care a little as far as how i am able to recruit the University for high caliber employees.
For athletics - he is turrible. Not a leader and so detached from those who are in D-1 big boy athletics. I care much more about athletics and it is what I donate 90% of my money towards.

It would be interesting if someone could create a poll and see what percentage on this board would vote to renew Alger.
09-27-2021 02:05 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 12:52 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 12:30 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  “I'm not knocking Joe necessarily - we have a good friendship & professional relationship - but you don't have to scroll too far into his twitter account to see he shares some very uneducated takes and lots of ultra conservative media propaganda.”

Well, can't avoid the politics on this one. Sorry.

I haven't seen Joe Showker's thread, but if, for example, he's retweeting things like "Ivermectin is safer than the Covid vaccine", "Covid is just the flu", or "there was widespread voter fraud in Arizona", that's uneducated. Those things are provably false, readily confirmed or denied, and if someone shares those on social media, that's as uneducated a take as "the earth is flat".

I doubt he caught wind of this thread and deleted his twitter profile that quickly, but I couldn't find it. I did see on facebook he shared a post implying that Trump losing reelection should cause the same feelings as 9/11. That was enough for me to conclude that he likely shares uneducated takes on twitter (and insanely disrespectful ones if he is comparing a presidential election loss to an event that killed ~3k people). And I wouldn't normally call someone out personally like this, but given he is a voice of internet safety and teaching kids that they need to be careful about their online presence, by exposing their own tweets (linked), I'm not sure why a grown man is off limits.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2021 02:18 PM by DoubleDogDare.)
09-27-2021 02:09 PM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Alger renewed
I wonder if Alger's renewal isn't a function of CK leaving. It would be tough for JMU to have a total turnover at the top at the same time.
09-27-2021 02:09 PM
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bjk3047 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 01:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  It wasn’t just the renaming of buildings- it was also the way it was done. There was the unecessary rush of immediately using temporary names, then coming up with the new names 7 months or so later. The old names could have simply been kept until the new ones were chosen. 7 more months of building names that had been there for a century more or less, wasn’t going to make a difference to those who weren’t super liberal.

Two things here.

1) This seems like a very odd quibble. If 7 months wasn't going to make a difference, what difference did that span make with temporary names?

It's basically the same as Washington Football Team. A decision was reached that, gee, we should probably change a name that isn't consistent with the values of our institution. What you change that name to is inherently going to take a little time. But the first decision doesn't inherently hinge on the second decision.

2) "In July 2020 the BOV voted unanimously to remove the names of three Confederate military leaders from buildings in the bluestone section of campus. At that time, temporary names for these buildings were assigned with the understanding that a process would take place to recommend new building names. To provide recommendations for permanent renaming, the 47-member Campus History Committee received extensive input from members of the campus and extended community. Recommendations were developed over the course of several months, and they were shared with university leadership for consideration and review."
https://www.jmu.edu/news/2021/02/19-bov-...amed.shtml

Why ascribe this decision to Alger, when 15 of 15 BOV members made this decision? Is the implication that they're all Alger's lackeys?
09-27-2021 02:20 PM
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KickItToScotty Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 01:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 10:09 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Can you provide examples where President Alger has demonstrated that he is super liberal? I’m not arguing the point that folks are making I just suspect there is a narrative about President Alger that has been promulgated on these boards that he is ultra liberal or extreme that I believe is inaccurate. People like to size other people up and fit them in a box I’m just challenging that assessment.
It wasn’t just the renaming of buildings- it was also the way it was done. There was the unecessary rush of immediately using temporary names, then coming up with the new names 7 months or so later. The old names could have simply been kept until the new ones were chosen. 7 more months of building names that had been there for a century more or less, wasn’t going to make a difference to those who weren’t super liberal.

I've gotta disagree there. I have a hard enough time seeing the other side of names/monuments honoring the confederacy in general, but an even harder time seeing your logic there. To say there's nothing wrong with the names and they don't need changing is one thing, but it's a whole other thing if JMU would go "yeah we acknowledge that these names are racist/anti-USA or could at least be seen that way and need to be changed, but also we're gonna stick with them for seven more months."
09-27-2021 02:54 PM
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DoubleDogDare Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 02:05 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I’m not on the BOV so I couldn’t vote. I’ve have had more than enough interactions with Alger since he took office to know he is not someone I am proud of as the prez of JMU. The initial listening tour and the president’s council gave me all the info I needed to see he was not the man for the job.

The renewal is a statement that the BOV actually thinks he is doing a good job.
For academics - good enough and I only care a little as far as how i am able to recruit the University for high caliber employees.
For athletics - he is turrible. Not a leader and so detached from those who are in D-1 big boy athletics. I care much more about athletics and it is what I donate 90% of my money towards.

It would be interesting if someone could create a poll and see what percentage on this board would vote to renew Alger.

I guess it would be interesting, but I feel like it would also be horribly misinformed. The vast majority of us (myself included) don't have the information to accurately conclude on his performance. I mean the majority (and not you specifically) seem to be basing their opinion on a handshake, or something that isn't even his role (i.e., reviewing FROG training guides, which definitely isn't on Alger, OR actions taken by the BOV, which very well could have been pushed by Alger), or something that appears to be false/misplaced (i.e., "donors are leaving" while it also appears that donations are increasing).

As someone that is out of the know, I wish the Alger conversations had more specifics/facts, than opinions. I'm sure it is hard to isolate his singular role in the good and the bad of JMU during his tenure, but I haven't seen anything point to a widespread plateau, or downward trend, anywhere in the school. As far as I can tell, the donor base is continuing to expand as it has historically (perhaps faster?), actual dollar value donations are continuing to expand (and again, perhaps faster?), rankings and national recognition seems to be in line with historical trends, and there doesn't appear to be mass pushback from faculty (certainly not in the know on this one though).
09-27-2021 03:01 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 03:01 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(09-27-2021 02:05 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I’m not on the BOV so I couldn’t vote. I’ve have had more than enough interactions with Alger since he took office to know he is not someone I am proud of as the prez of JMU. The initial listening tour and the president’s council gave me all the info I needed to see he was not the man for the job.

The renewal is a statement that the BOV actually thinks he is doing a good job.
For academics - good enough and I only care a little as far as how i am able to recruit the University for high caliber employees.
For athletics - he is turrible. Not a leader and so detached from those who are in D-1 big boy athletics. I care much more about athletics and it is what I donate 90% of my money towards.

It would be interesting if someone could create a poll and see what percentage on this board would vote to renew Alger.

I guess it would be interesting, but I feel like it would also be horribly misinformed. The vast majority of us (myself included) don't have the information to accurately conclude on his performance. I mean the majority (and not you specifically) seem to be basing their opinion on a handshake, or something that isn't even his role (i.e., reviewing FROG training guides, which definitely isn't on Alger, OR actions taken by the BOV, which very well could have been pushed by Alger), or something that appears to be false/misplaced (i.e., "donors are leaving" while it also appears that donations are increasing).

As someone that is out of the know, I wish the Alger conversations had more specifics/facts, than opinions. I'm sure it is hard to isolate his singular role in the good and the bad of JMU during his tenure, but I haven't seen anything point to a widespread plateau, or downward trend, anywhere in the school. As far as I can tell, the donor base is continuing to expand as it has historically (perhaps faster?), actual dollar value donations are continuing to expand (and again, perhaps faster?), rankings and national recognition seems to be in line with historical trends, and there doesn't appear to be mass pushback from faculty (certainly not in the know on this one though).

Exactly. That's why I was hoping someone had some evidence of the Board's rationale. Instead, we started talking about limp handshakes (arguably the worst Limp Bizkit cover band) and whatnot.
09-27-2021 03:10 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Alger renewed
Athletics and endowment are a big deal to me. The endowment for JMU has been and remains pretty pathetic. Growth is just above market rate. In order to grow, JMU needs resources from both the state and a private endowment. We now lag behind George Mason. This only happened in the last 3 years!

The President after Rose was supposed to be someone who could raise money and sell a vision. Instead we got a lawyer who wears suits that are 3 sizes too big and unironically wears his cowboy hats backwards.

Five more years of the most milque·toast human being on earth.
09-27-2021 03:23 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 03:23 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  Athletics and endowment are a big deal to me. The endowment for JMU has been and remains pretty pathetic. Growth is just above market rate. In order to grow, JMU needs resources from both the state and a private endowment. We now lag behind George Mason. This only happened in the last 3 years!

The President after Rose was supposed to be someone who could raise money and sell a vision. Instead we got a lawyer who wears suits that are 3 sizes too big and unironically wears his cowboy hats backwards.

Five more years of the most milque·toast human being on earth.

This is probably the strongest consensus on this forum... one based in athletics. The Unleashed Campaign success is a great achievement (under Alger). I hope that we can build on it and keep growing our endowment and private support. It is increasing, and I'm sure some would assert that it could be growing faster and I probably wouldn't disagree. If only DukemanX would get over his personal Alger vendetta we could pay for everything we need!
09-27-2021 03:30 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Alger renewed
Should have included this link a few days ago, but for the record when we go and search for this in a few years, JMU President Jon Alger's contract runs through June 30, 2027.

https://www.jmu.edu/news/2021/09/24-alge...sion.shtml
09-27-2021 03:33 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Alger renewed
“Let your handshake be a greater bond than any written contract.” ― Steve Maraboli

Top 10 Bad Business Handshakes
09-27-2021 03:38 PM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 03:38 PM)JMU85 Wrote:  “Let your handshake be a greater bond than any written contract.” ― Steve Maraboli

Top 10 Bad Business Handshakes

That's funny right there. A lot of us have been living in #4 and #8 too long.
09-27-2021 03:46 PM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Alger renewed
(09-27-2021 02:05 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I’m not on the BOV so I couldn’t vote. I’ve have had more than enough interactions with Alger since he took office to know he is not someone I am proud of as the prez of JMU. The initial listening tour and the president’s council gave me all the info I needed to see he was not the man for the job.

The renewal is a statement that the BOV actually thinks he is doing a good job.
For academics - good enough and I only care a little as far as how i am able to recruit the University for high caliber employees.
For athletics - he is turrible. Not a leader and so detached from those who are in D-1 big boy athletics. I care much more about athletics and it is what I donate 90% of my money towards.

It would be interesting if someone could create a poll and see what percentage on this board would vote to renew Alger.

I am right there with ya......for many of those same reasons and interactions.
09-27-2021 03:56 PM
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