Academics are always a factor in league changes. To what degree depends on many factors.

(07-23-2021 02:38 PM)panama Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 11:01 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Does “legacy” REALLY matter?! I’m sure they’d kick them to curb if they could get away with it!

You seemingly answered your own question.

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In this new environment they have the Ohlmeyer excuse as cover. It’s only a matter time.

Michael: TAMU and Missouri went to SEC, THE elite football conference. And A&M wanted out of UT’s shadow. Colorado is a valid one though.

(07-23-2021 02:52 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Michael: TAMU and Missouri went to SEC, THE elite football conference. And A&M wanted out of UT’s shadow. Colorado is a valid one though.

Yes, I understand that. But I do think Mike Slive, a former judge who went to undergrad at Dartmouth and to Georgetown and UVA to study law, saw AAU schools Texas A&M and Missouri as a coup for the SEC academically. They doubled their AAU members from two (Vanderbilt and Florida) to four.

All I'm saying is that academics are always a factor, especially when you have a lot of options.

Rice

Buffalo

Tulane

(07-23-2021 11:21 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 11:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Academics do matter, yes. But the B1G isn't adding a bottom-5 football program (Kansas) or a school in a state that it already carries (Iowa State). Neither Kansas or Iowa State move the needle enough to warrant expansion for the B1G. It would just end up slicing up the pie for more mouths to feed.

If the B1G was adding Texas and Oklahoma, and decided to bring Kansas and Iowa State with them, it would make more sense.

KU was in Orange Bowl in 2008. That is recent enough to show you can win there. KU probably has more available wins in B1G.

Nebraska is lobbying for Kansas.

I really think Colorado is a distinct possibility. Travel for them would be no different than in the Pac and they gain more stability.

B1G WEST
CO, KS, NE, IA, MN, WI, PUR, IL

B1G EAST
NW, IN, MI, MSU, PSU, MD, RUT, OSU

That's a solid conf

That would SUCK for Iowa. Hell no

Yeah, if you have options “academics”
Gives you plausible deniability.

(07-23-2021 11:21 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  It matters to the Pac-12. They want high research and better AI than the bottom 1/3rd of the conference, that is the legacy schools of Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State and Washington.

BYU has the AI, but not the research. Same for Baylor and TCU. Religious affiliation is problem as well for Baylor and BYU with their honor codes and incompatibility with California, Washington, Colorado and Oregon laws (doesn't matter that I disagree with those laws).

The B1G wants prestigious schools, as every school is either a flagship or an AAU institution. Flagship is the most important (11 of 14, plus NW, and Purdue), just as it is in the SEC (12 of 16, plus Vandy and A&M). Certainly Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech all fit the bill, as do Kansas and Colorado. Florida State is really the one exception I think they'd be willing to make, simply too valuable a property.

North Carolina is definitely the #1 ACC target of the SEC if they ever expand again. I suspect Florida State would also make the SEC list, but much less sure Virginia would. Duke and Georgia Tech would not.

What do ya know, UCSD has that high research you speak of.

(07-23-2021 02:59 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 02:52 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Michael: TAMU and Missouri went to SEC, THE elite football conference. And A&M wanted out of UT’s shadow. Colorado is a valid one though.

Yes, I understand that. But I do think Mike Slive, a former judge who went to undergrad at Dartmouth and to Georgetown and UVA to study law, saw AAU schools Texas A&M and Missouri as a coup for the SEC academically. They doubled their AAU members from two (Vanderbilt and Florida) to four.

All I'm saying is that academics are always a factor, especially when you have a lot of options.

Already stated on here is that academics are a reason to say no to someone, not a reason on their own to say yes to someone.

But market, TV viewership, Blueblood status, etc. all come first.

If there were two Texas both having the same history, and one was AAU, you take the AAU version.

The best real life example of this is probably UNC and NC state. Both large public schools in similar markets.

UNC has better basketball history but NC State is no slouch.

Conferences prefer UNC.

This is going to be really painful for me to say this, but proof positive that academics matter a lot is that UAB is likely the next in line out of all 24 schools in the Sun Belt and C-USA to get into the AAC, and not Appalachian State. App State sells more tickets than UAB, is in a much more populated state, has a far longer history of winning (2 losing seasons in 35 years), and has won the fifth most games in FBS since 2015. App State even beat UAB the one time they've ever played in the 2019 New Orleans Bowl.

But UAB has the med school and the research. So, advantage UAB.

(07-23-2021 04:27 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  This is going to be really painful for me to say this, but proof positive that academics matter a lot is that UAB is likely the next in line out of all 24 schools in the Sun Belt and C-USA to get into the AAC, and not Appalachian State. App State sells more tickets than UAB, is in a much more populated state, has a far longer history of winning (2 losing seasons in 35 years), and has won the fifth most games in FBS since 2015. App State even beat UAB the one time they've ever played in the 2019 New Orleans Bowl.

But UAB has the med school and the research. So, advantage UAB.

The new stadium only helps UAB, much like it did at UCF.

(07-23-2021 03:01 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Buffalo

AAU did get us in the 1-A door much faster than our athletics side deserved: Back to D1 in 1991 then invited unanimously to the MAC in summer of 1995, in the same vote that brought in perennial 1-AA power Marshall and re-admitted NIU....crazy quick. From there, yeah, AAU didn't solve for bad hires and tougher standards than a program like Marshall, moving up to CUSA in less than 10 MAC seasons.

(07-23-2021 04:27 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  This is going to be really painful for me to say this, but proof positive that academics matter a lot is that UAB is likely the next in line out of all 24 schools in the Sun Belt and C-USA to get into the AAC, and not Appalachian State. App State sells more tickets than UAB, is in a much more populated state, has a far longer history of winning (2 losing seasons in 35 years), and has won the fifth most games in FBS since 2015. App State even beat UAB the one time they've ever played in the 2019 New Orleans Bowl.

But UAB has the med school and the research. So, advantage UAB.

You are correct, MinR. The academics and med school will be hugely considered in this equation.

However, there are many other factors that would give UAB the advantage over AppState (which would be very deserving of an AAC invite) and other candidates. For example, UAB has enjoyed a fairly strong hoops history since the 1970s, and it has a league affiliation history with many AAC members. Those two factors cannot be overstated.

(07-23-2021 02:44 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Tulane and Tulsa got into the AAC. Marshall didn't, with far more success in the 15 years leading up to those invitations than either of those.

Academics are always a factor.

I'm sure the state/city Marshall is in had nothing to do with this right?

Marshall is one culture change away from losing the only thing that makes them semi-decent. When gen z gets older small market football teams will be on life support.

(07-23-2021 03:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 11:21 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  It matters to the Pac-12. They want high research and better AI than the bottom 1/3rd of the conference, that is the legacy schools of Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State and Washington.

BYU has the AI, but not the research. Same for Baylor and TCU. Religious affiliation is problem as well for Baylor and BYU with their honor codes and incompatibility with California, Washington, Colorado and Oregon laws (doesn't matter that I disagree with those laws).

The B1G wants prestigious schools, as every school is either a flagship or an AAU institution. Flagship is the most important (11 of 14, plus NW, and Purdue), just as it is in the SEC (12 of 16, plus Vandy and A&M). Certainly Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech all fit the bill, as do Kansas and Colorado. Florida State is really the one exception I think they'd be willing to make, simply too valuable a property.

North Carolina is definitely the #1 ACC target of the SEC if they ever expand again. I suspect Florida State would also make the SEC list, but much less sure Virginia would. Duke and Georgia Tech would not.

What do ya know, UCSD has that high research you speak of.

Yes they do. And so does UC Davis, Uc Irvine, UC Santa Barbara and wait for it ... no really wait for it ... the newest , the 7th University of California campus to achieve AAU status, UC Santa Cruz

(07-23-2021 09:38 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 02:44 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Tulane and Tulsa got into the AAC. Marshall didn't, with far more success in the 15 years leading up to those invitations than either of those.

Academics are always a factor.

I'm sure the state/city Marshall is in had nothing to do with this right?

Marshall is one culture change away from losing the only thing that makes them semi-decent. When gen z gets older small market football teams will be on life support.

So, the market argument? WV is smaller population wise, but Oklahoma is still a small population state. There are fewer than 4M people in a country of 330M. Tulsa is bigger and probably more affluent, but isnt exactly huge as a city, either. I think academics played a monster role.

Tulane, admittedly, is in more of a market, sizable enough for pro sports. But I would say their elite academics bolsters them even more.

Put it this way: If Tulane was in Huntington and Marshall was in New Orleans, which one gets into the AAC (well, still known as the Big East then) in 2012? Tough call, huh?

Also, what is your evidence that small market programs will be on life support? I'll bypass naming names, but plenty of small town teams in both P5 and G5 leagues are thriving while large market teams struggle... The college town is part of what makes college sports unique and attractive to its audience.

(07-23-2021 09:54 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 03:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 11:21 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  It matters to the Pac-12. They want high research and better AI than the bottom 1/3rd of the conference, that is the legacy schools of Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State and Washington.

BYU has the AI, but not the research. Same for Baylor and TCU. Religious affiliation is problem as well for Baylor and BYU with their honor codes and incompatibility with California, Washington, Colorado and Oregon laws (doesn't matter that I disagree with those laws).

The B1G wants prestigious schools, as every school is either a flagship or an AAU institution. Flagship is the most important (11 of 14, plus NW, and Purdue), just as it is in the SEC (12 of 16, plus Vandy and A&M). Certainly Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech all fit the bill, as do Kansas and Colorado. Florida State is really the one exception I think they'd be willing to make, simply too valuable a property.

North Carolina is definitely the #1 ACC target of the SEC if they ever expand again. I suspect Florida State would also make the SEC list, but much less sure Virginia would. Duke and Georgia Tech would not.

What do ya know, UCSD has that high research you speak of.

Yes they do. And so does UC Davis, Uc Irvine, UC Santa Barbara and wait for it ... no really wait for it ... the newest , the 7th University of California campus to achieve AAU status, UC Santa Cruz

Wasn't John Travolta wearing a UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs t-shirt in Pulp Fiction when Quentin Tarantino said he and Samuel L. Jackson looked like a couple of dorks?

(07-23-2021 09:54 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 03:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 11:21 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  It matters to the Pac-12. They want high research and better AI than the bottom 1/3rd of the conference, that is the legacy schools of Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State and Washington.

BYU has the AI, but not the research. Same for Baylor and TCU. Religious affiliation is problem as well for Baylor and BYU with their honor codes and incompatibility with California, Washington, Colorado and Oregon laws (doesn't matter that I disagree with those laws).

The B1G wants prestigious schools, as every school is either a flagship or an AAU institution. Flagship is the most important (11 of 14, plus NW, and Purdue), just as it is in the SEC (12 of 16, plus Vandy and A&M). Certainly Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech all fit the bill, as do Kansas and Colorado. Florida State is really the one exception I think they'd be willing to make, simply too valuable a property.

North Carolina is definitely the #1 ACC target of the SEC if they ever expand again. I suspect Florida State would also make the SEC list, but much less sure Virginia would. Duke and Georgia Tech would not.

What do ya know, UCSD has that high research you speak of.

Yes they do. And so does UC Davis, Uc Irvine, UC Santa Barbara and wait for it ... no really wait for it ... the newest , the 7th University of California campus to achieve AAU status, UC Santa Cruz

UC San Diego has the right location, student enrollment and financial endowment to join the Pac 12 someday. Those others don't. The California quartet would love another buddy of that caliber. No football means no stepping on Colorado's, Utah's, Wazzu's, ASU's, Oregon State's, etc. toes either. That's nine yes votes right there