I know people tend to dismiss academics as a consideration, but after a proven track record in athletics in football or other sports, the other consideration is academics.
Specifically, the AAU - AAU is an elite group of about 100 universities with academic reputations as measured in research $$ attracted.
The B1G exclusively admits AAU schools. Their one non-AAU member is Nebraska, who was an AAU member when they joined (but lost that distinction).
The Pac, while not exclusively AAU, values that and has limited interested in non-AAU schools.
In the B12, the only AAU schools are TEX, KU and ISU.
So if the B1G makes a move, it will be for KU and/or ISU.
When the Pac makes a move, its likely they would welcome KU, ISU and maybe TCU as a private school with solid academics. They'd have to consider Texas Tech due to size of enrollment/endowment.
They would be reluctant to take KSU and OSU - the only reason they have Wash St and Or St is legacy. They aren't admitting anyone else like that.
If this were true Iowa State would be in the B1G! Academics have NEVER TRULY MATTERED in the sports that matter!
Does “legacy” REALLY matter?! I’m sure they’d kick them to curb if they could get away with it!
(07-23-2021 10:59 AM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]If this were true Iowa State would be in the B1G! Academics have NEVER TRULY MATTERED in the sports that matter!
And Rice would not be buried in C-USA.
Academics only matter if it can be used as an excuse to say no to somebody.
Academics do matter, yes. But the B1G isn't adding a bottom-5 football program (Kansas) or a school in a state that it already carries (Iowa State). Neither Kansas or Iowa State move the needle enough to warrant expansion for the B1G. It would just end up slicing up the pie for more mouths to feed.
If the B1G was adding Texas and Oklahoma, and decided to bring Kansas and Iowa State with them, it would make more sense.
(07-23-2021 11:05 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Academics only matter if it can be used as an excuse to say no to somebody.
Ding!
(07-23-2021 11:03 AM)ESE84 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-23-2021 10:59 AM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]If this were true Iowa State would be in the B1G! Academics have NEVER TRULY MATTERED in the sports that matter!
And Rice would not be buried in C-USA.
(07-23-2021 11:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: [ -> ]Academics do matter, yes. But the B1G isn't adding a bottom-5 football program (Kansas) or a school in a state that it already carries (Iowa State). Neither Kansas or Iowa State move the needle enough to warrant expansion for the B1G. It would just end up slicing up the pie for more mouths to feed.
If the B1G was adding Texas and Oklahoma, and decided to bring Kansas and Iowa State with them, it would make more sense.
Everything after your 1st sentence contradicts it!
It matters to the Pac-12. They want high research and better AI than the bottom 1/3rd of the conference, that is the legacy schools of Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State and Washington.
BYU has the AI, but not the research. Same for Baylor and TCU. Religious affiliation is problem as well for Baylor and BYU with their honor codes and incompatibility with California, Washington, Colorado and Oregon laws (doesn't matter that I disagree with those laws).
The B1G wants prestigious schools, as every school is either a flagship or an AAU institution. Flagship is the most important (11 of 14, plus NW, and Purdue), just as it is in the SEC (12 of 16, plus Vandy and A&M). Certainly Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia Tech all fit the bill, as do Kansas and Colorado. Florida State is really the one exception I think they'd be willing to make, simply too valuable a property.
North Carolina is definitely the #1 ACC target of the SEC if they ever expand again. I suspect Florida State would also make the SEC list, but much less sure Virginia would. Duke and Georgia Tech would not.
(07-23-2021 11:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: [ -> ]Academics do matter, yes. But the B1G isn't adding a bottom-5 football program (Kansas) or a school in a state that it already carries (Iowa State). Neither Kansas or Iowa State move the needle enough to warrant expansion for the B1G. It would just end up slicing up the pie for more mouths to feed.
If the B1G was adding Texas and Oklahoma, and decided to bring Kansas and Iowa State with them, it would make more sense.
KU was in Orange Bowl in 2008. That is recent enough to show you can win there. KU probably has more available wins in B1G.
Nebraska is lobbying for Kansas.
I really think Colorado is a distinct possibility. Travel for them would be no different than in the Pac and they gain more stability.
B1G WEST
CO, KS, NE, IA, MN, WI, PUR, IL
B1G EAST
NW, IN, MI, MSU, PSU, MD, RUT, OSU
That's a solid conf
(07-23-2021 10:58 AM)jgkojak Wrote: [ -> ]I know people tend to dismiss academics as a consideration, but after a proven track record in athletics in football or other sports, the other consideration is academics.
Specifically, the AAU - AAU is an elite group of about 100 universities with academic reputations as measured in research $$ attracted.
The B1G exclusively admits AAU schools. Their one non-AAU member is Nebraska, who was an AAU member when they joined (but lost that distinction).
The Pac, while not exclusively AAU, values that and has limited interested in non-AAU schools.
In the B12, the only AAU schools are TEX, KU and ISU.
So if the B1G makes a move, it will be for KU and/or ISU.
When the Pac makes a move, its likely they would welcome KU, ISU and maybe TCU as a private school with solid academics. They'd have to consider Texas Tech due to size of enrollment/endowment.
They would be reluctant to take KSU and OSU - the only reason they have Wash St and Or St is legacy. They aren't admitting anyone else like that.
Delaney said in the past that AAU is the preference but not an absolute. They also won't likely expand just for the sake of expansion. If they don't go and make a counteroffer to try to grab UT/OU, I could see them staying put.
(07-23-2021 10:58 AM)jgkojak Wrote: [ -> ]I know people tend to dismiss academics as a consideration
It's important only as a possible reason for university presidents to *not* add a certain candidate. It's not enough to get an invitation.
What is enough for School X to get an invitation is ESPN (of course speaking unofficially and off-the-record through consultants) saying that the current members of a conference will make more TV money than they do now if they add School X.
(07-23-2021 11:21 AM)jgkojak Wrote: [ -> ]KU was in Orange Bowl in 2008. That is recent enough to show you can win there. KU probably has more available wins in B1G.
Nebraska is lobbying for Kansas.
I really think Colorado is a distinct possibility. Travel for them would be no different than in the Pac and they gain more stability.
B1G WEST
CO, KS, NE, IA, MN, WI, PUR, IL
B1G EAST
NW, IN, MI, MSU, PSU, MD, RUT, OSU
That's a solid conf
I'm not sure if Nebraska's lobbying means anything for the B1G, as they are #14 on the totem pole in B1G circles. I don't know if Nebraska has any friends in the B1G. But it is something.
I'd love to see KU land on their feet in the B1G. They fit. Their only drawback is their putrid football program. They have everything else: elite basketball, KC market, academic status. All they have to do is be serviceable in football. I think they made a good hire this off-season. And, I think they can become serviceable in the B1G. I just don't know what kind of value they bring to the B1G. Basketball is important, especially there, but football drives the bus.
Now that the NCAA is walking wounded and streaming services are the new goal, content is king. Academics will be important, but not as important as they were 10 years ago. I'm guessing you'll see conferences make compromises that would have been unthinkable not too long ago, especially if they're struggling to attract eyeballs to their services.
That's not to say the PAC will return Boise's calls, just that they won't be too unhappy giving Oregon State a new academic bottom of the league.
Baylor would be at the top of the academic list of the ones left in the B12
(07-23-2021 10:59 AM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]If this were true Iowa State would be in the B1G! Academics have NEVER TRULY MATTERED in the sports that matter!
You're mistaken
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(07-23-2021 11:01 AM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]Does “legacy” REALLY matter?! I’m sure they’d kick them to curb if they could get away with it!
You seemingly answered your own question.
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(07-23-2021 10:58 AM)jgkojak Wrote: [ -> ]I know people tend to dismiss academics as a consideration, but after a proven track record in athletics in football or other sports, the other consideration is academics.
Specifically, the AAU - AAU is an elite group of about 100 universities with academic reputations as measured in research $$ attracted.
Well, AAU doesn't seem to be meaning much in the Texas/OU/SEC courtship.
Tulane and Tulsa got into the AAC. Marshall didn't, with far more success in the 15 years leading up to those invitations than either of those.
Academics are always a factor.
All four of the schools that left the Big 12 in the early 2010's were AAU members at the time they announced they were leaving. I don't think that is a mere coincidence. The leagues that invited them LOVED that about their new schools.