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NFL 21 Offseason thread
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-25-2021 02:34 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 11:15 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 02:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Colts and Broncos make the most sense. Maybe a 3 team deal between Texans, Jets and Lions. Lions send Stafford to Houston, Watson goes to the Jets and the Lions get some draft picks.

Why in the world would a rebuilding team want Stafford? If Watson goes to the Jets Houston IMO will get the 2nd pick in the draft.

Watson is a fool if he wants to go to the Jets. They are just as incompetent as the Texans and would need to give up ALL of their draft capital just to acquire him.

I don't think it's Watson's choice. This ain't the NBA.
01-25-2021 09:57 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-24-2021 12:25 PM)nbcards Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 11:44 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Word is Stafford is out in Detroit....

It seems like the colts would be all over this after rivers annoucement and not having a qb. Question is what will it take to get him? First and a third?

Colts might be making calls about Aaron Rodgers...
01-25-2021 01:21 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #23
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-25-2021 09:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 02:34 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 11:15 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 02:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Colts and Broncos make the most sense. Maybe a 3 team deal between Texans, Jets and Lions. Lions send Stafford to Houston, Watson goes to the Jets and the Lions get some draft picks.

Why in the world would a rebuilding team want Stafford? If Watson goes to the Jets Houston IMO will get the 2nd pick in the draft.

Watson is a fool if he wants to go to the Jets. They are just as incompetent as the Texans and would need to give up ALL of their draft capital just to acquire him.

I don't think it's Watson's choice. This ain't the NBA.

Tell that to Antonio Brown when he refused a trade to Buffalo and demanded to go to Oakland.
01-25-2021 01:56 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-25-2021 01:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 09:57 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 02:34 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 11:15 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-24-2021 02:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Colts and Broncos make the most sense. Maybe a 3 team deal between Texans, Jets and Lions. Lions send Stafford to Houston, Watson goes to the Jets and the Lions get some draft picks.

Why in the world would a rebuilding team want Stafford? If Watson goes to the Jets Houston IMO will get the 2nd pick in the draft.

Watson is a fool if he wants to go to the Jets. They are just as incompetent as the Texans and would need to give up ALL of their draft capital just to acquire him.

I don't think it's Watson's choice. This ain't the NBA.

Tell that to Antonio Brown when he refused a trade to Buffalo and demanded to go to Oakland.

those are few and far between. And also he's not a QB. Apples to Oranges there.
01-25-2021 02:01 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #25
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
The relevant difference between trading a player in the NBA versus the NFL is the NFL's rules on "dead money" when a player is cut or traded. NFL contracts are usually not guaranteed and to compensate for that, star players usually get big signing bonuses, which is where the dead money problem arises. Good NBA players get fully-guaranteed deals and they don't have the same issues. NBA stars like James Harden and Anthony Davis could be and were traded without putting the trading team into salary cap hell, but that's not true for DeShaun Watson (or Carson Wentz, or Jared Goff, or any other high-salary NFL player who might theoretically be traded in this offseason).

Watson could force a trade by being as obnoxious and disruptive as Harden was before the Rockets dealt him. But the dead money problem makes it much more difficult.
01-25-2021 03:15 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #26
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
I think ALL non-NFL contracts are guaranteed.
01-25-2021 03:29 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #27
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-25-2021 03:29 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I think ALL non-NFL contracts are guaranteed.

No. There are many marginal NBA players whose contracts are partially guaranteed, or only become guaranteed if they remain with the team past a certain date (eg, halfway through the season, or the trade deadline).
01-25-2021 04:47 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #28
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
Steelers hire Matt Canada as OC.
01-25-2021 05:01 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #29
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
Wedge: do you mean 2-way G-League contracts? I totally forgot about those! I suppose NHL/AHL contracts work the same.
01-25-2021 07:13 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #30
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-25-2021 07:13 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Wedge: do you mean 2-way G-League contracts? I totally forgot about those! I suppose NHL/AHL contracts work the same.

No. There are many marginal NBA players on regular contracts that are not fully guaranteed.

Here is one example, the contract of Mychal Mulder, who plays for the Warriors. First year of his contract was guaranteed, second year (this year) was partially guaranteed if he was on the roster on opening day, third year has no guarantee at all. The Warriors could let him go today and not owe him anything else.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state...der-32841/
01-25-2021 09:17 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #31
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
Rams get Stafford; Lions get Goff and two first round picks
01-31-2021 12:28 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 12:28 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Rams get Stafford; Lions get Goff and two first round picks

Stafford owns a home in Southern California, so this works for his family. A steep price to pay to get rid of Goff and his contract. The Super Bowl is being played in SoFi Stadium in 2022, and the Rams plan on being there. At least their owner, Stan Kroenke, expects them to be there. He spent $5 billion on his beautiful stadium and this is a “Win Now” move.
01-31-2021 01:49 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 01:49 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 12:28 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Rams get Stafford; Lions get Goff and two first round picks

Stafford owns a home in Southern California, so this works for his family. A steep price to pay to get rid of Goff and his contract. The Super Bowl is being played in SoFi Stadium in 2022, and the Rams plan on being there. At least their owner, Stan Kroenke, expects them to be there. He spent $5 billion on his beautiful stadium and this is a “Win Now” move.

Yep. The Rams continue to mortgage their first round draft picks. Including the two number ones they dealt to the Lions, the Rams will have not drafted in the first round for seven, SEVEN, consecutive years. IMO, the Lions came out of this deal smelling like roses. They can rent Goff for one season and then cut him loose after 2021 for less dead cap money if they want. They also got a 2021 third round pick, in addition to the 2022 and 2023 first round picks for Stafford. The only way this works for the Rams is if they get back to the Super Bowl. I'm skeptical that will occur.
01-31-2021 09:28 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #34
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
This deal also makes things much more difficult for DeShaun Watson, the Texans, and any team that thought they could land Watson.

Even though we all know the draft capital in this deal is so much because the Lions are doing the Rams the favor of taking Goff's contract, the fact remains that the Rams paid two firsts and a third plus a usable QB to get a 33-year-old QB with a long history of injuries.

If Texans management doesn't get significantly more for Watson, they look like morons who traded a young, once-in-a-generation QB and got too little in return. How much would they have to get to not look bad? Four first round picks? Two firsts, a second, and a third, plus an All-Pro player under age 30? That makes it significantly harder for any other team to acquire Watson, and it's even harder on Watson because it makes it a lot more likely that he will have to either sit out the 2021 season or play the 2021 season for the Texans.
01-31-2021 02:24 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 02:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This deal also makes things much more difficult for DeShaun Watson, the Texans, and any team that thought they could land Watson.

Even though we all know the draft capital in this deal is so much because the Lions are doing the Rams the favor of taking Goff's contract, the fact remains that the Rams paid two firsts and a third plus a usable QB to get a 33-year-old QB with a long history of injuries.

If Texans management doesn't get significantly more for Watson, they look like morons who traded a young, once-in-a-generation QB and got too little in return. How much would they have to get to not look bad? Four first round picks? Two firsts, a second, and a third, plus an All-Pro player under age 30? That makes it significantly harder for any other team to acquire Watson, and it's even harder on Watson because it makes it a lot more likely that he will have to either sit out the 2021 season or play the 2021 season for the Texans.

Well the 2 1st round picks are going to most likely be much lower in the draft. If they deal say with the Jets they could get the #2 pick this year and then another 1-2 1st round picks along with a bit more...
01-31-2021 02:40 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 02:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This deal also makes things much more difficult for DeShaun Watson, the Texans, and any team that thought they could land Watson.

Even though we all know the draft capital in this deal is so much because the Lions are doing the Rams the favor of taking Goff's contract, the fact remains that the Rams paid two firsts and a third plus a usable QB to get a 33-year-old QB with a long history of injuries.

If Texans management doesn't get significantly more for Watson, they look like morons who traded a young, once-in-a-generation QB and got too little in return. How much would they have to get to not look bad? Four first round picks? Two firsts, a second, and a third, plus an All-Pro player under age 30? That makes it significantly harder for any other team to acquire Watson, and it's even harder on Watson because it makes it a lot more likely that he will have to either sit out the 2021 season or play the 2021 season for the Texans.

I mostly agree except the bolded. Texas is not in any position to expect the cornucopia for Watson. We can blame Texas all day long for incompetent management/leadership but the fact is Watson has demanded a trade. Detroit and Stafford mutally agreed to a parting of the ways. Watson also holds the cards with the no trade clause. The number of potential teams as trade partners is already limited due to this. Texas is really over the burner on this [not that I feel sorry for them] and it would seem the only negotiating chip they have is to not trade him and let him sit out the 2021 season if they don't get adequate compensation. The problem with that hardball tactic is it still ties up your salary cap and the bad press and distractions you create for your organization for another year.
01-31-2021 02:55 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 02:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This deal also makes things much more difficult for DeShaun Watson, the Texans, and any team that thought they could land Watson.

Even though we all know the draft capital in this deal is so much because the Lions are doing the Rams the favor of taking Goff's contract, the fact remains that the Rams paid two firsts and a third plus a usable QB to get a 33-year-old QB with a long history of injuries.

If Texans management doesn't get significantly more for Watson, they look like morons who traded a young, once-in-a-generation QB and got too little in return. How much would they have to get to not look bad? Four first round picks? Two firsts, a second, and a third, plus an All-Pro player under age 30? That makes it significantly harder for any other team to acquire Watson, and it's even harder on Watson because it makes it a lot more likely that he will have to either sit out the 2021 season or play the 2021 season for the Texans.

Stafford started 136 consecutive games from 2011 through 2019, so he does not really have a injury history and he has played through injuries. The Rams gave up a lot, which tells you how much they wanted to get rid of Goff. The Rams in 2020 were No.1 in total defense and No.10 in rushing offense (yardage per game). The Lions were 30th in rushing offense and 32nd in total defense. Stafford has been carrying the team for years and 2020 was just another example of it.

Over the past two seasons, Stafford has thrown 45 touchdown passes with 15 interceptions in 24 games. Over the past two seasons, Goff has thrown 42 touchdown passes with 29 interceptions in 31 games. Goff has been on a better team. That does not include the fumbles by Goff.

This is a good trade for both teams. The Lions are rebuilding and have three top 100 draft picks over the next three years and Goff to start the rebuilding process. The Rams wanted a QB that could stretch the field and stop turning the ball over. Stafford is an upgrade in both areas.
01-31-2021 05:23 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
Right on topic...

Quote:But let's play Watson's game, because, ultimately, the PR perspective tends to win out in these circumstances. Should he eventually threaten to retire, for example, or go more public with his displeasure, the Texans will inevitably play ball in trade talks. And now we're back to the question at hand: How much does Stafford's deal help them? It's hard to specifically quantify, but we'd venture to say they can milk at least an additional mid-round pick out of another team because of the Lions and Rams swap.

As for what the Texans will demand in general, the Houston Chronicle's John McClain suggests the team will want at least two firsts, two seconds and two young defensive starters for Watson. Few teams would likely be willing to go so far, with the New York Jets among the most speculated landing spots, but that price tag sounds about right. In our estimation, it's most likely that Houston would simply ask for more first-rounders -- between three and four, to start -- as the base compensation. They wouldn't have settled for less than a pair of firsts (and plenty of secondary assets) before the Stafford deal, and now, they most definitely won't.

Glad I'm Not A Texans Executive
01-31-2021 09:24 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 09:24 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Right on topic...

Quote:But let's play Watson's game, because, ultimately, the PR perspective tends to win out in these circumstances. Should he eventually threaten to retire, for example, or go more public with his displeasure, the Texans will inevitably play ball in trade talks. And now we're back to the question at hand: How much does Stafford's deal help them? It's hard to specifically quantify, but we'd venture to say they can milk at least an additional mid-round pick out of another team because of the Lions and Rams swap.

As for what the Texans will demand in general, the Houston Chronicle's John McClain suggests the team will want at least two firsts, two seconds and two young defensive starters for Watson. Few teams would likely be willing to go so far, with the New York Jets among the most speculated landing spots, but that price tag sounds about right. In our estimation, it's most likely that Houston would simply ask for more first-rounders -- between three and four, to start -- as the base compensation. They wouldn't have settled for less than a pair of firsts (and plenty of secondary assets) before the Stafford deal, and now, they most definitely won't.

Glad I'm Not A Texans Executive

The one plus is if it's with the Jets- one of the picks would be the #2 pick. That has almost certainly a bunch more value than either of the Rams 1st rd picks(both should be in the 20's if not lower).

It's where if they trade with someone else with lower draft pick this year that I think you see them getting more 1st round picks.
01-31-2021 10:55 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: NFL 21 Offseason thread
(01-31-2021 05:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 02:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This deal also makes things much more difficult for DeShaun Watson, the Texans, and any team that thought they could land Watson.

Even though we all know the draft capital in this deal is so much because the Lions are doing the Rams the favor of taking Goff's contract, the fact remains that the Rams paid two firsts and a third plus a usable QB to get a 33-year-old QB with a long history of injuries.

If Texans management doesn't get significantly more for Watson, they look like morons who traded a young, once-in-a-generation QB and got too little in return. How much would they have to get to not look bad? Four first round picks? Two firsts, a second, and a third, plus an All-Pro player under age 30? That makes it significantly harder for any other team to acquire Watson, and it's even harder on Watson because it makes it a lot more likely that he will have to either sit out the 2021 season or play the 2021 season for the Texans.

Stafford started 136 consecutive games from 2011 through 2019, so he does not really have a injury history and he has played through injuries. The Rams gave up a lot, which tells you how much they wanted to get rid of Goff. The Rams in 2020 were No.1 in total defense and No.10 in rushing offense (yardage per game). The Lions were 30th in rushing offense and 32nd in total defense. Stafford has been carrying the team for years and 2020 was just another example of it.

Over the past two seasons, Stafford has thrown 45 touchdown passes with 15 interceptions in 24 games. Over the past two seasons, Goff has thrown 42 touchdown passes with 29 interceptions in 31 games. Goff has been on a better team. That does not include the fumbles by Goff.

This is a good trade for both teams. The Lions are rebuilding and have three top 100 draft picks over the next three years and Goff to start the rebuilding process. The Rams wanted a QB that could stretch the field and stop turning the ball over. Stafford is an upgrade in both areas.

Who are the Rams stretching the field with at WR? That is the issue with this deal, LA has kneecapped their ability to make any further improvements for the next two years.
02-01-2021 07:49 AM
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