(12-27-2020 08:33 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 05:49 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 03:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Throw out BYU and the three services academies (as those four are "different animals" compared to the other G5-ers) and Boise clearly is the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of brand, name recognition, recent wins, etc.

However, the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of history — national awards, top 25 finishes, overall wins, well-known coaches, etc. — and I would think Houston is the "ND of the G5." Maybe I'm forgetting a program that would top UH.

They have one decade of success in big boy football. Mostly with one coach. They have averaged three losses a year in the cfp era after rarely having two in the BCS. They don't even win their own division every year, and their conference less than half the time. They haven't been ranked higher than 19th by the CFP the fiesta bowl which is now years ago.

ND wasn't ND till they won for two decades. Boise isn't ND of anything, they are a team had one good decade and ok last seven years and a blue field.everyone associates them with. Again if anyone is the ND of the g5 its BYU who has decades of history, rankings, it's own seperate deal with a major sports player, name recognition, and a national following. Whose football alone makes more media money than Boise's entire sweetheart deal.

It's a silly comparison based on the bias of how this writer remember Boise, not.the facts of the situation or current status. BYU actually matches up in multiple areas as ND, including having Heisman, national titles, a strong religous affiliation, historic influences on football, general dislike by regional peers. So it makes it even more absurd to try and pass off a state school with mostly regional following and none of the standing within the game.

BYU is not part of the G5.

Good point. My fumble.

(12-25-2020 10:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 02:37 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 02:03 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-24-2020 11:09 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  Theyve won 100 games since joining the MW. How many other teams in Division 1A have that many wins since 2011? No G5 for sure.

I only got to 95, but it is amazing what you can do with more money and more exposure than everyone else you play. Almost like how the p5 racks up those g5 wins.

That isn't what we were talking about though, with one major bowl appearence since CFP which isn't brand new anymore, no national championships and the inability to win their own conference half the time, how are they ND?

Nobody said they were Notre Dame. The sports writer said they were “the Notre Dame of the G5”—-and he was talking about their brand compared to other G5’s. By the way—Notre Dame doesn’t win every game nor are they known for winning conference football championships. Pretty sure Boise has won more games over the last 20 years than Notre Dame. Boise has built a reputation for being a consistently elite team.

Since 1999 and not counting this shortened year, Boise has won at least 10 games 17 of those times. The other four years they won 9 games twice and 8 games twice. Only in one year, 2013, did they fail to win at least twice as many games as they lost - including this shortened year. They are 12-7 in bowl games during that time, including 3-0 in NY6 bowls.

It is quite a record of achievement, probably the most *consistent* over that time, as even Alabama and Ohio State have had losing seasons during that stretch.

But, it's also not quite as impressive as it seems. The main reason being the success has come overwhelmingly against other G5, natural because Boise is a G5 team. Boise is 19-21 during that time versus P5 teams, not very exceptional. That's why despite all that winning, nobody regards Boise as a truly elite program. They still have a Cinderella/outsider aura to them. They've also eroded a bit the past 5 or so years. Not a whole lot, but they just aren't the Boise of 10 years ago.

Boise wins, they really win. Which is why if they do join the AAC, I will be fine with it. Would not be my choice if it was up to me, but I think it is a "wash" as far as tangibles and intangibles are concerned.

Again—the sports writer called them the Notre Dame OF THE G5. So, he’s saying essentially backing up what I’ve been saying—of the teams available that might could be added to the AAC (G5 and Indy), Boise clearly has the most impressive on the field resume during the last 20 years (resulting in the best brand available to the AAC).

That's certainly true.

The writer's analogy would have been more apt, since Boise is not an independent and is not a private, religious school, while having the same dramatic impact, would have been that Boise State is "the Ohio State (or the Alabama) of the G5."

In that case, then BYU (an independent religious school, like Notre Dame) would be the "ND of the G5."

(12-26-2020 03:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Throw out BYU and the three services academies (as those four are "different animals" compared to the other G5-ers) and Boise clearly is the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of brand, name recognition, recent wins, etc.

However, the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of history — national awards, top 25 finishes, overall wins, well-known coaches, etc. — and I would think Houston is the "ND of the G5." Maybe I'm forgetting a program that would top UH.

BYU and the service academies may be "different animals," but so is Notre Dame, since it has been an independent from the get-go.

From that standpoint, strictly speaking, the only team that could be aptly referred to as the "ND of the G5" would be the non-P5 independent with the strongest overall record.

That would be BYU, which is, like Notre Dame, a "different animal."

In terms of history alone, BYU (38 bowl games) might come out ahead of Houston (27 bowl games).

.

It's hard to come up with a suitable P5 analogy to Boise State, since no P5 program is an FBS newcomer that has played a similar number of seasons in its current conference with a similar record of success.

The closest analogy might be Florida State, which didn't join a conference until 1992 and has played in a bowl game every year since, except 2018.

However, "Boise St. is the Florida St. of the G5" doesn't have quite the same ring to it...

(12-27-2020 09:47 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 03:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Throw out BYU and the three services academies (as those four are "different animals" compared to the other G5-ers) and Boise clearly is the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of brand, name recognition, recent wins, etc.

However, the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of history — national awards, top 25 finishes, overall wins, well-known coaches, etc. — and I would think Houston is the "ND of the G5." Maybe I'm forgetting a program that would top UH.

BYU and the service academies may be "different animals," but so is Notre Dame, since it has been an independent from the get-go.

From that standpoint, strictly speaking, the only team that could be aptly referred to as the "ND of the G5" would be the non-P5 independent with the strongest overall record.

That would be BYU, which is, like Notre Dame, a "different animal."

In terms of history alone, BYU (38 bowl games) might come out ahead of Houston (27 bowl games).

.

It's hard to come up with a suitable P5 analogy to Boise State, since no P5 program is an FBS newcomer that has played a similar number of seasons in its current conference with a similar record of success.

The closest analogy might be Florida State, which didn't join a conference until 1992 and has played in a bowl game every year since, except 2018.

However, "Boise St. is the Florida St. of the G5" doesn't have quite the same ring to it...

Agree.

I bet new Boise State Coach stays in MWC

(12-28-2020 10:44 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I bet new Boise State Coach stays in MWC

It’s for the best. What happens if our football program goes into a 5 or 10 year slump? We’d be stuck in a conference that may look vastly different than it does today for football and our non-football sports would be in a lower-profile conference.

I think it would be wise for Boise St and the AAC to wait and see what happens with the Big 12 in 2024. If the AAC sees schools depart to fill in Holes in the Big 12 the MWC may end up being the better conference when the dust settles.

(12-26-2020 06:57 PM)Chappy Wrote:  I haven’t done the math on this, just a little bit of guesstimating in my head so I may be off... but, I think Boise as an all-sports member could be done with LESS travel - at least for basketball - than is required from this current season’s 20-game round-robin.

Just drop back to 16 conference games with the football divisions used for scheduling (Memphis moves East, Wichita State in Navy’s spot). Fill the four extra games with regional games.

Pretty sure this would cut travel costs or at least break even.

Well, since I'm on vacation, while watching the kids play Pikmin 3 Deluxe I took some time to crunch the numbers here.

My hunch was correct. (I used road distances rather than air distances because that's what was convenient for me, but I'm sure the results are still pretty close to what they'd be via air.)

Over a 2-season period, using the AAC's 20-game round-robin basketball schedule they are using this season, the 11 current AAC members would each travel an average of 16,597 miles, or 8,299 miles per season.

If Boise were added to the mix and the schedule was reduced to 16 games, where you play members of your football division twice and members of the other football division once, the current AAC members would each travel an average of 13,880 miles, or 6,940 miles per season.

That's a reduction of 1,359 miles per season.

Additionally, per-game travel would only be slightly up... about 37 miles per game.

(12-28-2020 12:39 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 06:57 PM)Chappy Wrote:  I haven’t done the math on this, just a little bit of guesstimating in my head so I may be off... but, I think Boise as an all-sports member could be done with LESS travel - at least for basketball - than is required from this current season’s 20-game round-robin.

Just drop back to 16 conference games with the football divisions used for scheduling (Memphis moves East, Wichita State in Navy’s spot). Fill the four extra games with regional games.

Pretty sure this would cut travel costs or at least break even.

Well, since I'm on vacation, while watching the kids play Pikmin 3 Deluxe I took some time to crunch the numbers here.

My hunch was correct. (I used road distances rather than air distances because that's what was convenient for me, but I'm sure the results are still pretty close to what they'd be via air.)

Over a 2-season period, using the AAC's 20-game round-robin basketball schedule they are using this season, the 11 current AAC members would each travel an average of 16,597 miles, or 8,299 miles per season.

If Boise were added to the mix and the schedule was reduced to 16 games, where you play members of your football division twice and members of the other football division once, the current AAC members would each travel an average of 13,880 miles, or 6,940 miles per season.

That's a reduction of 1,359 miles per season.

Additionally, per-game travel would only be slightly up... about 37 miles per game.

The issue isn't so much mileage as it is flight durations and flight costs.

Boise isn't an easy place to get to from eastern locations. There are no direct flights to Boise from any AAC cities except Dallas and Houston. For every conference member except SMU and UH the trip would require a stopover.

Here's the direct flight map for Boise:

Don’t a lot of schools charter for their athletics programs?

(12-28-2020 03:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Don’t a lot of schools charter for their athletics programs?

We're talking G5. Maybe for the football team. Probably not for the basketball team. And certainly not for the volleyball team.

(12-27-2020 09:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 08:33 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 05:49 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 03:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Throw out BYU and the three services academies (as those four are "different animals" compared to the other G5-ers) and Boise clearly is the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of brand, name recognition, recent wins, etc.

However, the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of history — national awards, top 25 finishes, overall wins, well-known coaches, etc. — and I would think Houston is the "ND of the G5." Maybe I'm forgetting a program that would top UH.

They have one decade of success in big boy football. Mostly with one coach. They have averaged three losses a year in the cfp era after rarely having two in the BCS. They don't even win their own division every year, and their conference less than half the time. They haven't been ranked higher than 19th by the CFP the fiesta bowl which is now years ago.

ND wasn't ND till they won for two decades. Boise isn't ND of anything, they are a team had one good decade and ok last seven years and a blue field.everyone associates them with. Again if anyone is the ND of the g5 its BYU who has decades of history, rankings, it's own seperate deal with a major sports player, name recognition, and a national following. Whose football alone makes more media money than Boise's entire sweetheart deal.

It's a silly comparison based on the bias of how this writer remember Boise, not.the facts of the situation or current status. BYU actually matches up in multiple areas as ND, including having Heisman, national titles, a strong religous affiliation, historic influences on football, general dislike by regional peers. So it makes it even more absurd to try and pass off a state school with mostly regional following and none of the standing within the game.

BYU is not part of the G5.

Good point. My fumble.

Sigh

Let's do semantics.

There is no technical G5. There are the autonomous conferences (and ND) who were given special exceptions from the NCAA based on their direct contracts with the NY6 bowls.

Everything else is grouping by the media. In fact BYU does not qualify for the single slot reserved for the best conference champion of a conference without a direct contract to the NY6. However they receive a payment (as does Army, now UConn, Liberty, etc) out of the non-Autonomous money pool. Their independence does not give them membership to the Autonomous conference exceptions, grant them a vote, or do any of the things that make what we refer to as the Power 5. ND is an independent member of the autonomous group because of its independent contract with the Orange Bowl and thus receives a similar pay out, from a the autonomous pool of money.

BYU = ND
G5 = P5

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

(12-28-2020 03:38 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 09:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 08:33 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 05:49 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 03:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Throw out BYU and the three services academies (as those four are "different animals" compared to the other G5-ers) and Boise clearly is the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of brand, name recognition, recent wins, etc.

However, the "Notre Dame of the G5" in terms of history — national awards, top 25 finishes, overall wins, well-known coaches, etc. — and I would think Houston is the "ND of the G5." Maybe I'm forgetting a program that would top UH.

They have one decade of success in big boy football. Mostly with one coach. They have averaged three losses a year in the cfp era after rarely having two in the BCS. They don't even win their own division every year, and their conference less than half the time. They haven't been ranked higher than 19th by the CFP the fiesta bowl which is now years ago.

ND wasn't ND till they won for two decades. Boise isn't ND of anything, they are a team had one good decade and ok last seven years and a blue field.everyone associates them with. Again if anyone is the ND of the g5 its BYU who has decades of history, rankings, it's own seperate deal with a major sports player, name recognition, and a national following. Whose football alone makes more media money than Boise's entire sweetheart deal.

It's a silly comparison based on the bias of how this writer remember Boise, not.the facts of the situation or current status. BYU actually matches up in multiple areas as ND, including having Heisman, national titles, a strong religous affiliation, historic influences on football, general dislike by regional peers. So it makes it even more absurd to try and pass off a state school with mostly regional following and none of the standing within the game.

BYU is not part of the G5.

Good point. My fumble.

Sigh

Let's do semantics.

There is no technical G5. There are the autonomous conferences (and ND) who were given special exceptions from the NCAA based on their direct contracts with the NY6 bowls.

Everything else is grouping by the media. In fact BYU does not qualify for the single slot reserved for the best conference champion of a conference without a direct contract to the NY6. However they receive a payment (as does Army, now UConn, Liberty, etc) out of the non-Autonomous money pool. Their independence does not give them membership to the Autonomous conference exceptions, grant them a vote, or do any of the things that make what we refer to as the Power 5. ND is an independent member of the autonomous group because of its independent contract with the Orange Bowl and thus receives a similar pay out, from a the autonomous pool of money.

BYU = ND
G5 = P5

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

There is an actual G5. G5 is shorthand for "Group of Five," which is the actual defined term in the CFP contract, that refers to the five FBS conferences that do not have a contract with one of the NY6 bowl games: AAC, MWC, CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt.

(12-28-2020 03:17 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-28-2020 03:10 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Don’t a lot of schools charter for their athletics programs?

We're talking G5. Maybe for the football team. Probably not for the basketball team. And certainly not for the volleyball team.

I think the AAC schools charter for most stuff. I don't think we have a men or women's basketball team that doesn't. It's mostly a product of our geography though.

(12-28-2020 03:40 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(12-28-2020 03:38 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 09:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 08:33 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 05:49 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  They have one decade of success in big boy football. Mostly with one coach. They have averaged three losses a year in the cfp era after rarely having two in the BCS. They don't even win their own division every year, and their conference less than half the time. They haven't been ranked higher than 19th by the CFP the fiesta bowl which is now years ago.

ND wasn't ND till they won for two decades. Boise isn't ND of anything, they are a team had one good decade and ok last seven years and a blue field.everyone associates them with. Again if anyone is the ND of the g5 its BYU who has decades of history, rankings, it's own seperate deal with a major sports player, name recognition, and a national following. Whose football alone makes more media money than Boise's entire sweetheart deal.

It's a silly comparison based on the bias of how this writer remember Boise, not.the facts of the situation or current status. BYU actually matches up in multiple areas as ND, including having Heisman, national titles, a strong religous affiliation, historic influences on football, general dislike by regional peers. So it makes it even more absurd to try and pass off a state school with mostly regional following and none of the standing within the game.

BYU is not part of the G5.

Good point. My fumble.

Sigh

Let's do semantics.

There is no technical G5. There are the autonomous conferences (and ND) who were given special exceptions from the NCAA based on their direct contracts with the NY6 bowls.

Everything else is grouping by the media. In fact BYU does not qualify for the single slot reserved for the best conference champion of a conference without a direct contract to the NY6. However they receive a payment (as does Army, now UConn, Liberty, etc) out of the non-Autonomous money pool. Their independence does not give them membership to the Autonomous conference exceptions, grant them a vote, or do any of the things that make what we refer to as the Power 5. ND is an independent member of the autonomous group because of its independent contract with the Orange Bowl and thus receives a similar pay out, from a the autonomous pool of money.

BYU = ND
G5 = P5

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

There is an actual G5. G5 is shorthand for "Group of Five," which is the actual defined term in the CFP contract, that refers to the five FBS conferences that do not have a contract with one of the NY6 bowl games: AAC, MWC, CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt.

Incorrect, that is a term created by the media. The contracts refer to the Autonomous conferences and their differences. Including that this is founded on them having those contracts with the Rose, Sugar, and Orange. The conference who do not fall in that catagory were given a seperate slot. The media gave this remaining set of conferences the group of five term. Should the WAC or another FBS conference meet the requirements to be division 1 FBS they will be included in the pool of money for non Autonomous conferences unless they secure a contract with the NY6 bowls and meet the other requirements the NCAA set out in which case they will then be part of the Autonomous group.

That's it, the contract separates the FBS in to two groups, either you are Autonomous or you are other. Sorry I know BYU pride wants it to be different, but that's the truth.

Buffalo would be a better choice than Boise. It's within the AAC footprint, has much better academics (AAU), and has no stupid blue turf. Would Buffalo increase the AAC's payout? No. Would Boise? Not enough to compensate for its shortcomings.

(12-28-2020 04:51 PM)colohank Wrote:  Buffalo would be a better choice than Boise. It's within the AAC footprint, has much better academics (AAU), and has no stupid blue turf. Would Buffalo increase the AAC's payout? No. Would Boise? Not enough to compensate for its shortcomings.

Guess I need to go back and study geography since Buffalo is apparently in our footprint.

Boise and Buffalo can play a best 3/5 series to see who gets the AAC spot.

(12-28-2020 03:46 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-28-2020 03:40 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(12-28-2020 03:38 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 09:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 08:33 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  BYU is not part of the G5.

Good point. My fumble.

Sigh

Let's do semantics.

There is no technical G5. There are the autonomous conferences (and ND) who were given special exceptions from the NCAA based on their direct contracts with the NY6 bowls.

Everything else is grouping by the media. In fact BYU does not qualify for the single slot reserved for the best conference champion of a conference without a direct contract to the NY6. However they receive a payment (as does Army, now UConn, Liberty, etc) out of the non-Autonomous money pool. Their independence does not give them membership to the Autonomous conference exceptions, grant them a vote, or do any of the things that make what we refer to as the Power 5. ND is an independent member of the autonomous group because of its independent contract with the Orange Bowl and thus receives a similar pay out, from a the autonomous pool of money.

BYU = ND
G5 = P5

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

There is an actual G5. G5 is shorthand for "Group of Five," which is the actual defined term in the CFP contract, that refers to the five FBS conferences that do not have a contract with one of the NY6 bowl games: AAC, MWC, CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt.

Incorrect, that is a term created by the media. The contracts refer to the Autonomous conferences and their differences. Including that this is founded on them having those contracts with the Rose, Sugar, and Orange. The conference who do not fall in that catagory were given a seperate slot. The media gave this remaining set of conferences the group of five term. Should the WAC or another FBS conference meet the requirements to be division 1 FBS they will be included in the pool of money for non Autonomous conferences unless they secure a contract with the NY6 bowls and meet the other requirements the NCAA set out in which case they will then be part of the Autonomous group.

That's it, the contract separates the FBS in to two groups, either you are Autonomous or you are other. Sorry I know BYU pride wants it to be different, but that's the truth.

I doubt the CFP contracts refer to "Autonomous" conferences, because autonomy was not voted in to being until August 2014, and the CFP playoff deal was finalized in May of 2013.

The NCAA documents refer to Autonomy and Non-Autonomy conferences. The CFP refers to Contract and non-Contract conferences.

(12-28-2020 06:34 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Boise and Buffalo can play a best 3/5 series to see who gets the AAC spot.

Boise would get the nod if an invitation were based solely on football prowess. But if you're particular about the company you keep, then Buffalo would be a better choice.