WhoseHouse?
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RE: Rating the AAC
No amount of tackling practice was going to change the result of the BYU game for Navy. It might have made the difference between a 50 point and 40 point loss but I dont think that changes the perception of that loss. As a UH fan I dont take exception to people putting Tulane ahead of us and we beat them by three scores and it probably should have been more. That H2H represents only one data point tho. Tulane has been trending up, while we've arguably gotten worse. If we played again I'm not entirely sure we'd win. Navy fans have less reason to take issue with Tulane being ranked ahead of them.
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11-18-2020 11:13 AM |
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pesik
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-18-2020 11:13 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote: No amount of tackling practice was going to change the result of the BYU game for Navy. It might have made the difference between a 50 point and 40 point loss but I dont think that changes the perception of that loss. As a UH fan I dont take exception to people putting Tulane ahead of us and we beat them by three scores and it probably should have been more. That H2H represents only one data point tho. Tulane has been trending up, while we've arguably gotten worse. If we played again I'm not entirely sure we'd win. Navy fans have less reason to take issue with Tulane being ranked ahead of them.
how has houston been trending down.. the schedule just got harder..
we'd be trending up if we flipped the schedule around
also disagree with your navy point.. navy is built on discipline, they are generally way smaller than the average team, but make up for it in technicality.. if you remove that technicality the system crumbles and fast.. that is also the reason people say if you gain a large early lead on navy, the game is practically over as they are built to come back, and have to leave the system and take risks (also note, not practicing tackling hurts the offense aswell as they dont get to practice in real game situations aswell)
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11-18-2020 12:51 PM |
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Poseidon
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-18-2020 11:13 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote: No amount of tackling practice was going to change the result of the BYU game for Navy. It might have made the difference between a 50 point and 40 point loss but I dont think that changes the perception of that loss. As a UH fan I dont take exception to people putting Tulane ahead of us and we beat them by three scores and it probably should have been more. That H2H represents only one data point tho. Tulane has been trending up, while we've arguably gotten worse. If we played again I'm not entirely sure we'd win. Navy fans have less reason to take issue with Tulane being ranked ahead of them.
That's fair. Houston is better than Tulane at this point IMO. The fact that the Tulane/Houston game was at Houston means something as well. The Last few years the home team has had a real advantage in that series. Tulane won in Nola in 2017 and 2019. If those were in Houston I would bet that Houston wins one if not both of those. In 2018 and 2020 at Houston yall owned us, but if those games were in NOLA I would bet that they would have been close and probably Tulane wins one.
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11-18-2020 01:26 PM |
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WhoseHouse?
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-18-2020 12:51 PM)pesik Wrote: (11-18-2020 11:13 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote: No amount of tackling practice was going to change the result of the BYU game for Navy. It might have made the difference between a 50 point and 40 point loss but I dont think that changes the perception of that loss. As a UH fan I dont take exception to people putting Tulane ahead of us and we beat them by three scores and it probably should have been more. That H2H represents only one data point tho. Tulane has been trending up, while we've arguably gotten worse. If we played again I'm not entirely sure we'd win. Navy fans have less reason to take issue with Tulane being ranked ahead of them.
how has houston been trending down.. the schedule just got harder..
we'd be trending up if we flipped the schedule around
also disagree with your navy point.. navy is built on discipline, they are generally way smaller than the average team, but make up for it in technicality.. if you remove that technicality the system crumbles and fast.. that is also the reason people say if you gain a large early lead on navy, the game is practically over as they are built to come back, and have to leave the system and take risks (also note, not practicing tackling hurts the offense aswell as they dont get to practice in real game situations aswell)
Injuries and play calling. But I do agree that part of that feeling is just the results of the schedule getting tougher.
Navy was going to get manhandled by BYU. Period. The 50+ points they gave up were only part of the problem. They also only scored three points. A little bit of tackling maybe erases on or two scores. A 40 point loss or he'll even a 30 point loss is still an ass whooping and thats my main point. It was going to be a bad looking loss one way or another. The whole practicing excuse doesn't absolve them of that and thus should still factor in when we talk about rankings.
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11-18-2020 02:17 PM |
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vick mike
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RE: Rating the AAC
Any ranking midseason is subjective. We see complaints here year after year about how some P5 with 3 losses is ranked higher than an undefeated American team. I try to be objective in rankings on this forum, based on on-field performance. Head to head is a top consideration, as is conference record. Secondary considerations are ooc record and common opponents. To say we lost to Team X but would beat them now is woulda coulda shoulda thinking. You had the chance to win and you didn’t.
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11-18-2020 03:19 PM |
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WhoseHouse?
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RE: Rating the AAC
I've decided to change my rankings. I forgot this is 2020 where up is down and down is left. Chaos rules. Tulsa isn't the champion we deserve. They're the champion we need!
#Flaghsip #MontyForeverAndEver #LifetimeExtension
1. Tulsa
12. Tulsane
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 11:42 PM by WhoseHouse?.)
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11-19-2020 11:41 PM |
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Memphis Yankee
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-19-2020 11:41 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote: I've decided to change my rankings. I forgot this is 2020 where up is down and down is left. Chaos rules. Tulsa isn't the champion we deserve. They're the champion we need!
#Flaghsip #MontyForeverAndEver #LifetimeExtension
1. Tulsa
12. Tulsane
Well tonight anyway. Gotta admit it was a fun game to watch.
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11-19-2020 11:51 PM |
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Crazier
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RE: Rating the AAC
ESPN: "Hey the AAC is getting too strong, let's invite Cincinnati to the PAC12"
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11-20-2020 05:13 AM |
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pesik
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RE: Rating the AAC
mathematically speaking
ucf eliminated from conference title.. I believe UC has clinched 1 of the 2 championship spots
the other spot is down to tulsa, memphis, houston, and smu.. it is unclear if navy is still in the running
navy has one less conference game so not sure how tie breakers will work...how will their 5-2 be graded against a 6-2 or a 5-3
--Tulsa controls its destiny- win 2 of the last 3 games (houston, navy and Cincinnati) they clinch
-- Houston has to win out (memphis, smu, and tulsa) and have Tulsa lose to cincy
-- Navy win out (memphis, tulsa), cincy beat tulsa, houston & smu lose atleast 1---- but unclear if they are eligible
-- memphis wins out (navy tulane houston) then; 1) tulsa losses out, 2) tulsa losses 2 of the 3 .. whoever got tulsa's second loss (navy or houston) must finish higher than smu...
-- smu wins out , have tulsa lose out....or if navy's 5-2 is equivalent to tulsa/smu's 6-2 (meaning navy beat tulsa)...lots of scenario but most have smu winning the 3 way tie ..smu beat memphis who'll likely the next highest ranked team
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2020 08:24 PM by pesik.)
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11-21-2020 08:21 PM |
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SMUstang
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 08:21 PM)pesik Wrote: mathematically speaking
ucf eliminated from conference title.. I believe UC has clinched 1 of the 2 championship spots
the other spot is down to tulsa, memphis, houston, and smu.. it is unclear if navy is still in the running
navy has one less conference game so not sure how tie breakers will work...how will their 5-2 be graded against a 6-2 or a 5-3
--Tulsa controls its destiny- win 2 of the last 3 games (houston, navy and Cincinnati) they clinch
-- Houston has to win out (memphis, smu, and tulsa) and have Tulsa lose to cincy
-- Navy win out (memphis, tulsa), cincy beat tulsa, houston & smu lose atleast 1---- but unclear if they are eligible
-- memphis wins out (navy tulane houston) then; 1) tulsa losses out, 2) tulsa losses 2 of the 3 .. whoever got tulsa's second loss (navy or houston) must finish higher than smu...
-- smu wins out , have tulsa lose out....or if navy's 5-2 is equivalent to tulsa/smu's 6-2 (meaning navy beat tulsa)...lots of scenario but most have smu winning the 3 way tie ..smu beat memphis who'll likely the next highest ranked team
It's still up in the air, but clearly Cincy and Tulsa have the inside track with the tie-breakers. But SMU and Houston could still make it if they win out.
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11-21-2020 09:47 PM |
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TripleA
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11-21-2020 09:49 PM |
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Tiger1983
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RE: Rating the AAC
1. Cincy
2. Tulsa
3. SMU
4. Memphis
5. UCF
6. Houston
7. Navy
8. Tulane
9. ECU
10. Temple
11. USF
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11-21-2020 10:02 PM |
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slhNavy91
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 08:21 PM)pesik Wrote: mathematically speaking
ucf eliminated from conference title.. I believe UC has clinched 1 of the 2 championship spots
the other spot is down to tulsa, memphis, houston, and smu.. it is unclear if navy is still in the running
navy has one less conference game so not sure how tie breakers will work...how will their 5-2 be graded against a 6-2 or a 5-3
--Tulsa controls its destiny- win 2 of the last 3 games (houston, navy and Cincinnati) they clinch
-- Houston has to win out (memphis, smu, and tulsa) and have Tulsa lose to cincy
-- Navy win out (memphis, tulsa), cincy beat tulsa, houston & smu lose atleast 1---- but unclear if they are eligible
-- memphis wins out (navy tulane houston) then; 1) tulsa losses out, 2) tulsa losses 2 of the 3 .. whoever got tulsa's second loss (navy or houston) must finish higher than smu...
-- smu wins out , have tulsa lose out....or if navy's 5-2 is equivalent to tulsa/smu's 6-2 (meaning navy beat tulsa)...lots of scenario but most have smu winning the 3 way tie ..smu beat memphis who'll likely the next highest ranked team
It is conference record - winning percentage.
So 5-2 > 5-3 but 5-2 < 6-2
Edited 25 November 2020 to add: http://theamerican.org/documents/2020/10...proved.pdf
That's the Link to official championship participant determination and tiebreakers:
I didn't read far enough down originally to the section on "Unbalanced Schedule" which says: "In the event of an unbalanced schedule where there is a tie for the best, or second best, record in the loss column, head-to-head results will take precedence over winning percentage as long as the required number of conference games were completed."
(I bit too hard on the underlined "The two teams that complete the Conference season with the highest winning percentages will be the
participants in the Conference Championship Game." )
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2020 09:22 AM by slhNavy91.)
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11-21-2020 10:09 PM |
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panicstricken
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RE: Rating the AAC
1: Tulsa
2: UC
11: COOG High
12: TULANE
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11-21-2020 10:14 PM |
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TripleA
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 10:09 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote: (11-21-2020 08:21 PM)pesik Wrote: mathematically speaking
ucf eliminated from conference title.. I believe UC has clinched 1 of the 2 championship spots
the other spot is down to tulsa, memphis, houston, and smu.. it is unclear if navy is still in the running
navy has one less conference game so not sure how tie breakers will work...how will their 5-2 be graded against a 6-2 or a 5-3
--Tulsa controls its destiny- win 2 of the last 3 games (houston, navy and Cincinnati) they clinch
-- Houston has to win out (memphis, smu, and tulsa) and have Tulsa lose to cincy
-- Navy win out (memphis, tulsa), cincy beat tulsa, houston & smu lose atleast 1---- but unclear if they are eligible
-- memphis wins out (navy tulane houston) then; 1) tulsa losses out, 2) tulsa losses 2 of the 3 .. whoever got tulsa's second loss (navy or houston) must finish higher than smu...
-- smu wins out , have tulsa lose out....or if navy's 5-2 is equivalent to tulsa/smu's 6-2 (meaning navy beat tulsa)...lots of scenario but most have smu winning the 3 way tie ..smu beat memphis who'll likely the next highest ranked team
It is conference record - winning percentage.
So 5-2 > 5-3 but 5-2 < 6-2
Math is as math does.
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11-21-2020 10:49 PM |
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MickMack
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 10:14 PM)panicstricken Wrote: 1: Tulsa
2: UC
11: COOG High
12: TULANE
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11-21-2020 11:14 PM |
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Memphis Yankee
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 10:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: (11-21-2020 10:09 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote: (11-21-2020 08:21 PM)pesik Wrote: mathematically speaking
ucf eliminated from conference title.. I believe UC has clinched 1 of the 2 championship spots
the other spot is down to tulsa, memphis, houston, and smu.. it is unclear if navy is still in the running
navy has one less conference game so not sure how tie breakers will work...how will their 5-2 be graded against a 6-2 or a 5-3
--Tulsa controls its destiny- win 2 of the last 3 games (houston, navy and Cincinnati) they clinch
-- Houston has to win out (memphis, smu, and tulsa) and have Tulsa lose to cincy
-- Navy win out (memphis, tulsa), cincy beat tulsa, houston & smu lose atleast 1---- but unclear if they are eligible
-- memphis wins out (navy tulane houston) then; 1) tulsa losses out, 2) tulsa losses 2 of the 3 .. whoever got tulsa's second loss (navy or houston) must finish higher than smu...
-- smu wins out , have tulsa lose out....or if navy's 5-2 is equivalent to tulsa/smu's 6-2 (meaning navy beat tulsa)...lots of scenario but most have smu winning the 3 way tie ..smu beat memphis who'll likely the next highest ranked team
It is conference record - winning percentage.
So 5-2 > 5-3 but 5-2 < 6-2
Math is as math does.
This is not the Navy team we want to represent the west. Not this year. I love ya SLH but not this year. I've only seen a few games with this years team, but they looked awful.
This is not the same Navy team that kicked our ass every year. Maybe they make a miraculous recovery but how do you recover from 95-10 combined to BYU and Air Force? This is easily the worst Navy team since you joined the AAC.
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11-21-2020 11:21 PM |
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invisiblehand
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RE: Rating the AAC
I think if Tulsa beat's Houston we have a great shot at being in.
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11-21-2020 11:42 PM |
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Memphis Yankee
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 11:42 PM)invisiblehand Wrote: I think if Tulsa beat's Houston we have a great shot at being in.
You're in. You're a good team but appreciate you've had a few breaks along the way.
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11-21-2020 11:47 PM |
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TripleA
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RE: Rating the AAC
(11-21-2020 11:21 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote: (11-21-2020 10:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: (11-21-2020 10:09 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote: (11-21-2020 08:21 PM)pesik Wrote: mathematically speaking
ucf eliminated from conference title.. I believe UC has clinched 1 of the 2 championship spots
the other spot is down to tulsa, memphis, houston, and smu.. it is unclear if navy is still in the running
navy has one less conference game so not sure how tie breakers will work...how will their 5-2 be graded against a 6-2 or a 5-3
--Tulsa controls its destiny- win 2 of the last 3 games (houston, navy and Cincinnati) they clinch
-- Houston has to win out (memphis, smu, and tulsa) and have Tulsa lose to cincy
-- Navy win out (memphis, tulsa), cincy beat tulsa, houston & smu lose atleast 1---- but unclear if they are eligible
-- memphis wins out (navy tulane houston) then; 1) tulsa losses out, 2) tulsa losses 2 of the 3 .. whoever got tulsa's second loss (navy or houston) must finish higher than smu...
-- smu wins out , have tulsa lose out....or if navy's 5-2 is equivalent to tulsa/smu's 6-2 (meaning navy beat tulsa)...lots of scenario but most have smu winning the 3 way tie ..smu beat memphis who'll likely the next highest ranked team
It is conference record - winning percentage.
So 5-2 > 5-3 but 5-2 < 6-2
Math is as math does.
This is not the Navy team we want to represent the west. Not this year. I love ya SLH but not this year. I've only seen a few games with this years team, but they looked awful.
This is not the same Navy team that kicked our ass every year. Maybe they make a miraculous recovery but how do you recover from 95-10 combined to BYU and Air Force? This is easily the worst Navy team since you joined the AAC.
There is no West this year. No East, either. And Navy hasn't kicked our ass every year. :)
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2020 11:52 PM by TripleA.)
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11-21-2020 11:51 PM |
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