(09-18-2020 02:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote: (09-18-2020 01:44 PM)TexanMark Wrote: Is UCLA still a Blueblood or just an elite team?
I'm kinda torn...they have great history but haven't done much lately and they draw crap at Pauley Pavilion.
Personally I think only Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas are clear cut blue bloods (and in that order). However, if people are going to consider Indiana a blue blood then UCLA gets in easily. Since Indiana's last title run in '87, UCLA has more FF's, S16'S, tournament appearances, and conference championships.
The one thing that separates Duke, Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky from UCLA is that the first four schools on this short list have had considerably more success in recent decades.
Perhaps it would clarify things to divide all the blueblood schools (the all-time greatest BB schools, most outstanding achievements, regardless of recent performance) into two groups:
I. Currently (or very recently) top tier bluebloods, or "The Elite" (UNC, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, ...)
"Elite" suggests the current or very recently elite. These teams have been ranked among the top 20 within the past five years, and a significant amount of their total success, historically, has taken place within the past 15-20 years (as opposed to more than 20 years ago).
II. Formerly elite bluebloods, or "The Legends" (UCLA, etc....)
Unfortunately for this classification approach, UCLA doesn't fit perfectly into the "Legends" category, since the Bruins finished as the #8 school in the Final AP Top 25 in 2017. Yet, on the other hand, a significant amount of their total success has not happened in the past 20 years.
So, since I'm forcing myself to make a choice to make this system potentially useful, I'm going to have to call UCLA more of a "Legends" type of blueblood school, but very close to being a "recent elite".
In fact, that might be the best way to solve this conundrum - - to divide up the Legends into schools that are totally "Legends of the past" and Legends that have been elite in recent years.
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Next step: try to classify the next batch of BB schools, all of which would be widely considered to be bluebloods, although being a notch below the top 5 above:
Michigan State, Louisville and Arizona are bluebloods clearly belong in the current/recent elites group in every respect, although they haven't had the accomplishments that the top-tier all-time bluebloods that UNC, UCLA, etc. have had.
Syracuse, Illinois, and Indiana don't fall perfectly into either category. However, Syracuse comes close enough to being among the current/recent elite, due to having finished in the AP top 25 in 11 of the past 19 years.
Illinois hasn't been in the final AP top 20 since 2006, and Indiana has only had 4 AP top 20 finishes since 2000.
Louisville (39 NCAA bids; 33 top 25 teams since 1952)
Indiana (39 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1950)
Syracuse (40 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1973)
Arizona (33 NCAA bids; 26 top 25 teams since 1948)
Illinois (30 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1949)
Michigan State (33 NCAA bids; 24 top 25 teams since 1957)
Categories of two type of BB bluebloods:
Current (recent) elites: UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, MSU, Louisville, Syracuse
Legends: UCLA, Indiana, Illinois
Next batch of what some would consider bluebloods, although to a somewhat lesser degree.
Villanova* (38 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Cincinnati* (33 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1951) (*indicates non-P5 school)
+Notre Dame (36 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1953)
+Maryland (27 NCAA bids; 23 top 25 teams since 1954)
Ohio State (29 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1949)
+Michigan (25 NCAA bids; 22 top 25 teams since 1964)
Every one of these schools, except Notre Dame, fits very well or somewhat well into the "current(recent) elites category."
Michigan would be a somewhat marginal match if they hadn't finished in the AP Final Top 25 in 2018 and 2019., but they did, and they would certainly be considered a BB blueblood school by some fans.
It's hard to think of Notre Dame as being a truly "elite" program in the same that UNC and Kentucky are. They're clearly a notch below. Moreover, they've only had 6 top 20 teams in the past two decades. That's enough to move them into the "Legends" category, although some would be uncomfortable with the notion that Notre Dame should be included in the same category with the elite schools of all time, such as UCLA and Indiana.
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Here's the new score:
Categories of two type of BB bluebloods:
Current (recent) elites: UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, MSU, Louisville, Syracuse, Villanova, Cincinnati, Maryland, OSU, Michigan.
Legends: UCLA, Indiana, Illinois, & Notre Dame (marginal, perhaps)
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Last five:
Marquette (33 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1955)
Utah (29 NCAA bids; 20 top 25 teams since 1949)
Purdue (30 NCAA bids; 19 top 25 teams since 1955)
NC State (25 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)
Oklahoma State (28 NCAA bids; 17 top 25 teams since 1949)
Of these five schools, Marquette comes the closest to being comparable with the bluebloods listed above. Utah and Purdue would be considered marginal bluebloods by some fans.
Marquette and Utah would clearly fit into the Legends category, while Purdue would definitely be considered a current(recent) elite.
NC State and Oklahoma State are probably too marginal to be considered true BB blueblood schools, so I'd be inclined to drop them from these categories.
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I didn't get a chance to go over every D1 BB in detail, including some from major conferences, so this list of "bluebloods" isn't comprehensive. There are doubtless at least 3 or 4 other true bluebloods of the current or legends type, but for now, here is the...
...Final score:
Categories of the two types of BB bluebloods mentioned here :
Current (very recent) elites:
UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, MSU, Louisville, Syracuse, Villanova, Cincinnati, Maryland, OSU, Michigan, & Purdue.
Legends:
UCLA, Indiana, Illinois, Marquette, Notre Dame (marginal ?), and Utah (marginal)
NOTE: Most of the "Legends" on this list have had some degree of success within the past 10-15 years, and could thus be described as "somewhat recent elites" among the ranks of the bluebloods.
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I'm guessing that there might be some Indiana and Illinois fans who might find fault with these type of classification, but it's just a first draft, and "nothing ventured, nothing gained."