(07-23-2020 08:50 AM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Mark Packard was discussing this some yesterday. Name & Likeness is completely different that what these PAC12 players are demanding. It cost about $74,570 a year to go to Stanford. That probably includes room and board. Then take into account on the job training that you are given as a football player by top notch professionals. Now stop and think from a simpler point of view. What does a plumbers apprentice make while working for a master plumber? It takes 2 to 5 years to become a master plumber and the Master Plumber you are working for is making a lot of money off of your work during that period. I find it very hard to sympathize with a group of individuals who get preferred status at some of the top schools in the country when they complain about whats fair and unfair. Now if you want to argue that a player has the right to sell his autographs or his image and likeness then maybe there is an argument there, but these demands are ridiculous.

Of course their demands are ridiculous. That's done on purpose to get want you really down the line. It's Negotiations 101!

If this happened and doubled the cost to fund athletic departments college sports would be over. Fans are not going to step up and fund that, so universities would drop sports, or just offer club sports. Asking for something this ridiculous exposes the problem with pushing athletes into majors like Exercise Science--they have no concept of economics.

(07-22-2020 07:55 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I'm all for the players looking out for themselves. If it's a inconvenience to fans it probably means it's the right thing to do.

It's not an inconvenience...I watch college football because they are amateurs and don't get paid. I'll be happy to stop if they become a league of whiny primadonnas like the NFL, which I don't and have not watched in years.

Rarely is biting the hand that feeds the right thing to do. They even made a cliche saying about it. What you see as little heroes I see as little ingrates, who will never pay a student loan and never had to work a job or skip a semester to pay for the next one. They all gloss over their FREE education, that is 10s of 1000s dollars per year to anyone else, like it doesn't really count. **** em.

(07-23-2020 09:38 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:50 AM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Mark Packard was discussing this some yesterday. Name & Likeness is completely different that what these PAC12 players are demanding. It cost about $74,570 a year to go to Stanford. That probably includes room and board. Then take into account on the job training that you are given as a football player by top notch professionals. Now stop and think from a simpler point of view. What does a plumbers apprentice make while working for a master plumber? It takes 2 to 5 years to become a master plumber and the Master Plumber you are working for is making a lot of money off of your work during that period. I find it very hard to sympathize with a group of individuals who get preferred status at some of the top schools in the country when they complain about whats fair and unfair. Now if you want to argue that a player has the right to sell his autographs or his image and likeness then maybe there is an argument there, but these demands are ridiculous.

Of course their demands are ridiculous. That's done on purpose to get want you really down the line. It's Negotiations 101!

There is a difference between asking high and asking for the moon. An person that goes to a car lot and starts with $50 as an asking price won't be taken seriously. When you go too aggressive you guarantee that the public won't be behind you to negotiate.

(07-23-2020 09:07 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:50 AM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Mark Packard was discussing this some yesterday. Name & Likeness is completely different that what these PAC12 players are demanding. It cost about $74,570 a year to go to Stanford. That probably includes room and board. Then take into account on the job training that you are given as a football player by top notch professionals. Now stop and think from a simpler point of view. What does a plumbers apprentice make while working for a master plumber? It takes 2 to 5 years to become a master plumber and the Master Plumber you are working for is making a lot of money off of your work during that period. I find it very hard to sympathize with a group of individuals who get preferred status at some of the top schools in the country when they complain about whats fair and unfair. Now if you want to argue that a player has the right to sell his autographs or his image and likeness then maybe there is an argument there, but these demands are ridiculous.

^^^

#wisdom

Hey Stink, you oughta see Jr. these days. He is 5'11' and up to 250 going into the 8th grade. He better not catch you stealing beer out of the truck again, lol.

(07-23-2020 03:59 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 07:55 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I'm all for the players looking out for themselves. If it's a inconvenience to fans it probably means it's the right thing to do.

It's not an inconvenience...I watch college football because they are amateurs and don't get paid.

They all gloss over their FREE education, that is 10s of 1000s dollars per year to anyone else, like it doesn't really count. **** em.

Your 1st sentence is a lie. Just stop it already....lol. Second, free education.......seriously??? Most of these guys could careless about their education. If these guys could play in some minor pro league and get paid something they would skip college all together.

Fact is universities make a ton of money off these guys and to justified them not getting paid because they're on a scholarship is silly.

I prefer college football over the major sports because it is less about individuality and more about the team. I don't care to hear about politics and personal beliefs of the players, whether I agree with them or not. Its polarizing and takes away from the only distraction I get from the real world. These players are asking to unionize and dictate terms when in fact they have it better than most everybody I know that went to college. I personally prefer it if there were a minor pro league for football players to go through. It certainly hasn't hurt college baseball which I enjoy. Not all Universities make a ton of money, in fact most barely keep their athletic departments afloat. These players are making unreasonable requests from Athletic departments who are dropping sports left and right. I simply don't agree with them or how they are going about doing it.

(07-23-2020 04:15 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 09:07 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:50 AM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Mark Packard was discussing this some yesterday. Name & Likeness is completely different that what these PAC12 players are demanding. It cost about $74,570 a year to go to Stanford. That probably includes room and board. Then take into account on the job training that you are given as a football player by top notch professionals. Now stop and think from a simpler point of view. What does a plumbers apprentice make while working for a master plumber? It takes 2 to 5 years to become a master plumber and the Master Plumber you are working for is making a lot of money off of your work during that period. I find it very hard to sympathize with a group of individuals who get preferred status at some of the top schools in the country when they complain about whats fair and unfair. Now if you want to argue that a player has the right to sell his autographs or his image and likeness then maybe there is an argument there, but these demands are ridiculous.

^^^

#wisdom

Hey Stink, you oughta see Jr. these days. He is 5'11' and up to 250 going into the 8th grade. He better not catch you stealing beer out of the truck again, lol.

#alwaysAll-inPal

however, i don't think my knees can handle that 'hit' again... if'n I only had some Deion in me....

You know how you can tell these players are not currently getting a bad deal? None of them say "I just won't play then."

It is the only game in town you counter, where else would they go? Well the XFL had no requirement about age like the NFL. You didn't see it happen, and according to sports writer David Kenyon, "Save for exceptionally rare situations, a high school senior will not be a realistic option. College freshmen regularly say their biggest adjustment is adapting to the speed of the game, and the XFL is even a little faster. And the physical gap between a 26-year-old NFL journeyman and an 18-year-old is, well, substantial." These players need college if they hope to get ready to play at the next level. Without the training they receive in college the number of high school athletes that made an NFL team would be statistically approaching zero.

While the rhetoric is that colleges are taking advantage of these players who should get some of the revenue, only 2% of them will get to the NFL, and I think we know in the non-P5 conferences that number is lower. More than 98% of our players are going to have to work for a living when their eligibility is up, and if they don't take advantage of the free education offered to them, then they are idiots.

(07-23-2020 03:59 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 07:55 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I'm all for the players looking out for themselves. If it's a inconvenience to fans it probably means it's the right thing to do.

It's not an inconvenience...I watch college football because they are amateurs and don't get paid. I'll be happy to stop if they become a league of whiny primadonnas like the NFL, which I don't and have not watched in years.

Rarely is biting the hand that feeds the right thing to do. They even made a cliche saying about it. What you see as little heroes I see as little ingrates, who will never pay a student loan and never had to work a job or skip a semester to pay for the next one. They all gloss over their FREE education, that is 10s of 1000s dollars per year to anyone else, like it doesn't really count. **** em.

Wait - so is it that they don't get paid, or that you think they are being paid sufficiently by the scholarships/experience/tutoring/team sweats/status?

Because if your contention is that they're already being paid and they're trying to negotiate for that plus whatever - it's just a matter of degree, right?

Shouldn't they get whatever they have the leverage to get? Naturally, as the post above points out - the schools have some leverage here too if they're willing to let them walk - the risk for schools would be schools willing to be more accommodating as a recruiting pitch.

(07-23-2020 04:18 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 03:59 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 07:55 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I'm all for the players looking out for themselves. If it's a inconvenience to fans it probably means it's the right thing to do.

It's not an inconvenience...I watch college football because they are amateurs and don't get paid.

They all gloss over their FREE education, that is 10s of 1000s dollars per year to anyone else, like it doesn't really count. **** em.

Your 1st sentence is a lie. Just stop it already....lol. Second, free education.......seriously??? Most of these guys could careless about their education. If these guys could play in some minor pro league and get paid something they would skip college all together.

Fact is universities make a ton of money off these guys and to justified them not getting paid because they're on a scholarship is silly.

So if the grocery store says you don't have to pay for your groceries, that is not income to you? It's money in the bank, literally, when you don't have to pay for things.

Now substitute University for grocery store, and education for groceries, and there you have it.

As to whether or not they care for their education, some don't, most do, and I refer you to my earlier statement that most of them would play for free. So even the pre-NFL majors are getting something for their time and effort.

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

If you’re on a tennis scholarship and have a job driving Uber or delivering food for Postmates to pay for expenses the university won’t cover, that’s different. The school is not making millions of dollars on the tennis team and they don’t have influential boosters doing favors for them. But we all know that’s not the case for football and men’s basketball.

(07-23-2020 08:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

Ok, so just like in real life, the guy loading trucks makes as much as the CEO and the company combined.

So is the guy loading Fedex trucks or drovomh thrm part of the team making the tons of money. Damn straight!

Quick, how much did the reserve left tackle contribute to the stadium? The indoor practice facility? Did he buy the food for the training table? Did he charter the bus? Did he drive the bus? Did he lay out even one penny?

Americans upset that Americans are trying to negotiate better deals for the use of their talents. College sports haven't been amateur in decades. Wanting to continue to fake it on the surface for the sake of "amateurism" to the detriment of the players is simply unrealistic. I'm fine with them doing what they're doing considering the state of college athletics/TV deals.

(07-23-2020 09:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

Ok, so just like in real life, the guy loading trucks makes as much as the CEO and the company combined.

So is the guy loading Fedex trucks or drovomh thrm part of the team making the tons of money. Damn straight!

Quick, how much did the reserve left tackle contribute to the stadium? The indoor practice facility? Did he buy the food for the training table? Did he charter the bus? Did he drive the bus? Did he lay out even one penny?

You're smart but no matter how smart you are it doesn't change the fact college football isn't amateur anymore. Not when you have college coaches making 7 to 9 million dollars a year and programs getting fat checks for TV deals and etc. A scholarship simply just isn't good enough anymore. Add to the fact that these guys no longer play 10 games a season, they're playing 14-15 games now.

Stop the nonsense dude. Just stop it!!!

(07-24-2020 07:12 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 09:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

Ok, so just like in real life, the guy loading trucks makes as much as the CEO and the company combined.

So is the guy loading Fedex trucks or drovomh thrm part of the team making the tons of money. Damn straight!

Quick, how much did the reserve left tackle contribute to the stadium? The indoor practice facility? Did he buy the food for the training table? Did he charter the bus? Did he drive the bus? Did he lay out even one penny?

You're smart but no matter how smart you are it doesn't change the fact college football isn't amateur anymore. Not when you have college coaches making 7 to 9 million dollars a year and programs getting fat checks for TV deals and etc. A scholarship simply just isn't good enough anymore. Add to the fact that these guys no longer play 10 games a season, they're playing 14-15 games now.

Stop the nonsense dude. Just stop it!!!

Man, you are the nonsense.

I quite agree coaches are overpaid. Stop bidding. But the fat checks you are talking about don't cover the costs for most programs. Please stop trying to treat Rice, UAB, McNeese State, Mid-Central Southern North Dakota, et al as if they were Alabama or LSU. Only about 20 or so of the nation's football programs turn a profit, so those others are in a completely different boat.

So you want to take a program already in the red, and disburse half the revenue to the players? Won't that put it further in the red? Who is going to make the extra cost? Higher student fees? Higher tuition? More state subsidy from taxes on the citizens?

Say Podunk U has 20MM of revenue, and 35MM of expenses, and under the HD program they give 10MM (1/2) to the athletes, it just increases the deficit. My gueess is Podunk U drops football. So what will those poor underpaid athletes doo. teansfer of course. For most of them, being a football player is the most important thing in their lives, and they would pay to play if they had to. But congratulations, HD,, You have killed athletics at Podunk. Next on the list? UAB?

Looks like Wisconsin is looking at a 100MM shortfall. I guess giving half the revenue to the players won't make any difference.

(07-24-2020 07:12 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 09:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

Ok, so just like in real life, the guy loading trucks makes as much as the CEO and the company combined.

So is the guy loading Fedex trucks or drovomh thrm part of the team making the tons of money. Damn straight!

Quick, how much did the reserve left tackle contribute to the stadium? The indoor practice facility? Did he buy the food for the training table? Did he charter the bus? Did he drive the bus? Did he lay out even one penny?

You're smart but no matter how smart you are it doesn't change the fact college football isn't amateur anymore. Not when you have college coaches making 7 to 9 million dollars a year and programs getting fat checks for TV deals and etc. A scholarship simply just isn't good enough anymore. Add to the fact that these guys no longer play 10 games a season, they're playing 14-15 games now.

Stop the nonsense dude. Just stop it!!!

Fine, re-direct all revenue to players. Make them pay facility usage fees, housing, books, tuition. They don't think those facilities weren't built for them. They benefit more than the average college student. Most of us are unable to get where we wanted with out our education and going to college. It's not an indictment that they can't go to a minor league system first. You don't have to play sports if you are morally against the system.

(07-23-2020 08:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

If you’re on a tennis scholarship and have a job driving Uber or delivering food for Postmates to pay for expenses the university won’t cover, that’s different. The school is not making millions of dollars on the tennis team and they don’t have influential boosters doing favors for them. But we all know that’s not the case for football and men’s basketball.

clt says Charlotte and ODU have influential tennis boosters.

(07-24-2020 09:42 AM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(07-23-2020 08:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:14 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-22-2020 11:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Let’s compare apples to apples, shall we.

A track and field or tennis scholarship is not the same as football and men’s basketball. Schools make millions on those players and they get nothing, zilch, zero, nada in return.

OK. Lets compare athletes who get 40-75K worth of education and benefits to regular students paying full freight while working delivering pizzas. Who has the better deal?

How do you like them apples?

If the school is making millions on those players through mega tv deals, sponsorships, merchandise, concessions, pay their coaches over $5 million per year and all they get in return is a scholarship and a minimum wage job......that’s not apples to apples.

If you’re on a tennis scholarship and have a job driving Uber or delivering food for Postmates to pay for expenses the university won’t cover, that’s different. The school is not making millions of dollars on the tennis team and they don’t have influential boosters doing favors for them. But we all know that’s not the case for football and men’s basketball.

clt says Charlotte and ODU have influential tennis boosters.

stink says google Warren Hood...

Stink,

What guit-fiddles do you play? I was in a band myself and we were spun on the Loud and Local circuit on 106.3.