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If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #1
If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
... who else is coming along for the ride in basketball? There will for sure be additional conferences for hoops. Will there be others for football? Will there be a system of relegation to call up the best of the rest and send down those who can't hack it?

Coming along in hoops:
- American
- Atlantic 10
- Big East
- Mountain West
- West Coast

Coming along in football too:
- American
- Mountain West



Regarding whether the premise is the P5 leaving the NCAA is plausible, ask yourself this: Will the ACC be tempted to kill the NCAA to get its hands on the tournament money which will almost certainly disproportionately enhance the revenue of the ACC relative to its competition? Well we have five ACC members with in state SEC rivals who would love to do that. Pitt can look east and come to a similar conclusion. As a private in an area of declining wealth and population Syracuse is probably on board as well. Just pissing off UCONN makes BC another yes. You're at 7 pretty easy yes votes right there. The question becomes can you whittle away enough outside of the Triangle to get enough votes. I'm not sure if the Triangle would be on board. Chapel Hill loves those Title IX sport titles and the Capital One Cup. So does Duke. The act of taking basketball away from the NCAA means some of those sports may not make the jump since the NCAA greatly inflates sport requirements in Division 1.
05-07-2020 10:32 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #2
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
If the Mountain West, a league that's never sent a team past the Sweet 16, is brought along, then I imagine the MVC would be brought along to fill the midwest hole, considering it's performed definitively better than the MWC in the NCAA Tournament.

Since the Mountain West formed:

NCAA Sweet 16's
Current
MVC 6 MWC 4
+Former
MVC 9 MWC 6

NCAA wins
Current
MVC 18 MWC 15
+Former
MVC 34 MWC 22

NCAA W%
Current
MVC 45% MWC 30%
+Former
MVC 47% MWC 31%
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2020 10:39 AM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
05-07-2020 10:39 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
Outside of the B1G, SEC, PAC, ACC, XII, Big East, and maybe the AAC, I don't see any other conference getting all of their full members into the group that secedes. Mt West might all go except San Jose St and perhaps Wyoming and Air Force. The WCC invitees would likely be just Gonzaga, BYU, and maybe St. Mary's. The MVC could be any number of schools - or none. The A10 could be 10 of the 14 members or so.
05-07-2020 10:44 AM
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Erictelevision Online
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Post: #4
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
I'm dubious ANY conference bring the ENTIRE conference along.
05-07-2020 12:35 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #5
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-07-2020 10:44 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Outside of the B1G, SEC, PAC, ACC, XII, Big East, and maybe the AAC, I don't see any other conference getting all of their full members into the group that secedes. Mt West might all go except San Jose St and perhaps Wyoming and Air Force. The WCC invitees would likely be just Gonzaga, BYU, and maybe St. Mary's. The MVC could be any number of schools - or none. The A10 could be 10 of the 14 members or so.

Yeah, I could see BYU and Gonzaga join the MWC (with only SJSU at risk) and a critical mass of the A10, which could be used as a catch-all conference for anyone else in the Eastern or Central time zones that makes the cut.
05-07-2020 01:09 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
For basketball, assuming no power conference would eliminate or remove members, you'd have the ACC (15), Big 12 (10), Big East (11), Big Ten (14), PAC (12) and SEC (14), for sure. However, to create a, in essence, modified/elite D1 (NCAA Division 1, Class A), you'd also most likely bring along the American (11), A10 (14), MWC (11), MVC (10) and WCC (10). This would bring you to 132 total teams, meaning just under half of a new coalition would make the tournament. This would, essentially, eliminate the bottom one-bid leagues from "taking" a guaranteed spot in an elite tournament, but also allow for enough "Cinderella-style" programs to keep casual interest and fan viewership during March. The other possibility from this style could be the elimination of the 20-game conference scheduling trend, as power conference teams would likely not want to be penalized playing more conference games (likely leading to potentially more losses) and not getting into the tournament; this would lead to more OOC opportunities for the AAC, A10, MWC, MVC and WCC to help build resumes.

The rest of the conferences, in basketball, would be NCAA Division 1, Class B (own tournament, etc.).

For Football, this would just be the P5 (+ ND); the G5 would be NCAA Division 1, Class B (own playoff, etc.).
05-07-2020 01:48 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #7
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
You have to overcome any anti-Trust action that may be spawned in the US Senate

That means keep the two Senators from NY, Delaware, MD, Florida, Colorado, Hawaii, Wyoming, Massachusetts, Utah, New Mexico, Idaho, and Ohio on board - that's 24 votes. Then you have attempt to deal with Connecticut and Blumenthal.

Maine, NH, Vermont, Rhode Island, Alaska, and Montana don't have real skin in the game. ND and SD should not have skin in the game. That's 16

Now you are down to having 60 votes to keep something from creeping out of the Senate.

To me that means some form of accommodation for the Mountain West, AAC, Big East, and the MAC.

That's 110 schools that can have their own Basketball tournament and can have two football playoffs a Varsity and JV level so to speak.

Let's say MAC, MW, AAC, and other independents are eligible for the JV playoff - you could have had four of Memphis, Navy, Cincy, Boise, and App State in a playoff. Since they are playing for something other than a medicore bowl, you might have real interest.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2020 02:52 PM by Statefan.)
05-07-2020 02:35 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #8
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-07-2020 01:48 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  For basketball, assuming no power conference would eliminate or remove members, you'd have the ACC (15), Big 12 (10), Big East (11), Big Ten (14), PAC (12) and SEC (14), for sure. However, to create a, in essence, modified/elite D1 (NCAA Division 1, Class A), you'd also most likely bring along the American (11), A10 (14), MWC (11), MVC (10) and WCC (10). This would bring you to 132 total teams, meaning just under half of a new coalition would make the tournament. This would, essentially, eliminate the bottom one-bid leagues from "taking" a guaranteed spot in an elite tournament, but also allow for enough "Cinderella-style" programs to keep casual interest and fan viewership during March. The other possibility from this style could be the elimination of the 20-game conference scheduling trend, as power conference teams would likely not want to be penalized playing more conference games (likely leading to potentially more losses) and not getting into the tournament; this would lead to more OOC opportunities for the AAC, A10, MWC, MVC and WCC to help build resumes.

The rest of the conferences, in basketball, would be NCAA Division 1, Class B (own tournament, etc.).

For Football, this would just be the P5 (+ ND); the G5 would be NCAA Division 1, Class B (own playoff, etc.).
I like the basketball setup. But for football I would say the AAC and MWC would go along with the P5 (And ND/BYU).
05-07-2020 02:45 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #9
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
I would think most of us agree there are three conferences that are not part of the P5 structure yet likely wield far more influence than any of the other non-P5 leagues (though the impressive academic might of the Ivy League is worthy of serious respect). Those three are the American, the Big East and the Mountain West.

The American offers Navy (a national brand because of its military academy status), five "legacy men's hoops programs" (Cincy, Houston, Memphis, Temple and Wichita), very good (if not strong) baseball, multiple football programs with histories of note (both good and bad), locations in large cities and an interesting (and even quirky) blend of academics/large enrollments/endowments/budgets.

The Big East is a power men's basketball league with a heavy-hitter lineup of historic basketball programs. It also offers underrated baseball and women's hoops, locations in large cities, quality academics from top to bottom and a cohesive theme and focused mission (primarily private, Catholic schools that stress teaching and that do not offer IA football)

The Mountain West offers Air Force (like Navy, a national brand because of its military academy status), very competitive football with a "name" program (Boise), solid baseball and men's hoops, some "state universities" with political influence and "statewide" fan bases, and a respectable mix of academics/enrollments/endowments/budgets.

Not sure how any of this might impact a future split of the P5 from the NCAA but it's worth noting.
05-07-2020 04:43 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #10
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-07-2020 02:35 PM)Statefan Wrote:  You have to overcome any anti-Trust action that may be spawned in the US Senate

Doesn't the federal government have bigger things to handle these days? Coronavirus? The recession that follows? Maybe even a supreme court confirmation? 07-coffee3
05-07-2020 07:14 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #11
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
If the P5 pull away I think they base their invites on a school by school basis—potentially leveraging the likes of the AAC, MWC, and Big East to take on other invitees such as Gonzaga, BYU, etc.
05-07-2020 07:28 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
It'd just be the P5. BYU and UConn might get to come along as Independents, with no real voice, but that is it.

I could see the Big East getting invited after it's set up, as that would get almost all the major schools in for Basketball. But the program would be setup for Football. Basketball would invite schools.

Now would the NCAA retaliate by telling Gonzaga and any others invited to the P5 tournament that they would lose benefits? Damn right they would.

Would the G5, especially the American and Mountain West beg and in the case of the American make a big public stink to be included? Damn right they would. This would lead the P5 to set up a path to entry, and individual schools might get through. They only need to admit one or two and put a few more in the investigation category to avoid antitrust. So that is what I see happening.
05-07-2020 07:38 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-07-2020 02:35 PM)Statefan Wrote:  You have to overcome any anti-Trust action that may be spawned in the US Senate

That means keep the two Senators from NY, Delaware, MD, Florida, Colorado, Hawaii, Wyoming, Massachusetts, Utah, New Mexico, Idaho, and Ohio on board - that's 24 votes. Then you have attempt to deal with Connecticut and Blumenthal.

Maine, NH, Vermont, Rhode Island, Alaska, and Montana don't have real skin in the game. ND and SD should not have skin in the game. That's 16

Now you are down to having 60 votes to keep something from creeping out of the Senate.

To me that means some form of accommodation for the Mountain West, AAC, Big East, and the MAC.

That's 110 schools that can have their own Basketball tournament and can have two football playoffs a Varsity and JV level so to speak.

Let's say MAC, MW, AAC, and other independents are eligible for the JV playoff - you could have had four of Memphis, Navy, Cincy, Boise, and App State in a playoff. Since they are playing for something other than a medicore bowl, you might have real interest.

You cannot force schools to play each other. That's not how law works.
05-07-2020 10:39 PM
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MidknightWhiskey Offline
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Post: #14
RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-07-2020 12:35 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I'm dubious ANY conference bring the ENTIRE conference along.

Exactly, if you’re breaking away you’re going to shed the deadweight from your conference that you’ve been stuck with.
05-07-2020 10:44 PM
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Post: #15
If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
The last serious discussion of P5 breakaway by the P5 ahead of the adoption of autonomy legislation the break starting point was all FBS plus Big East, A10, WCC, Ivy and the Valley.

We tend to be football focused in our thinking but football is nothing in association revenue and highly unlikely any association comprised of more than the P5 would ever be permitted to run football postseason. Because of this the issue is not how many football schools but how many of the 350 in hoops get invited.


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05-08-2020 01:53 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
dp
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2020 02:57 AM by chester.)
05-08-2020 02:42 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-08-2020 02:42 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-07-2020 10:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Regarding whether the premise is the P5 leaving the NCAA is plausible, ask yourself this: Will the ACC be tempted to kill the NCAA to get its hands on the tournament money which will almost certainly disproportionately enhance the revenue of the ACC relative to its competition?

^^^^^^^^

[Image: giphy.gif]



Some think way too small.. 04-cheers
05-08-2020 02:44 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-08-2020 02:44 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-08-2020 02:42 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-07-2020 10:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Regarding whether the premise is the P5 leaving the NCAA is plausible, ask yourself this: Will the ACC be tempted to kill the NCAA to get its hands on the tournament money which will almost certainly disproportionately enhance the revenue of the ACC relative to its competition?

^^^^^^^^

[Image: giphy.gif]



Some think way too small.. 04-cheers

I mean, let's think this through: As time goes on, fewer and fewer parents are going to subject their children to dementia (premature or otherwise) in the hopes that their kid will somehow strike gold through the dying sport of tackle gridiron.... So....?
05-08-2020 06:32 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-08-2020 06:32 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-08-2020 02:44 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-08-2020 02:42 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-07-2020 10:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Regarding whether the premise is the P5 leaving the NCAA is plausible, ask yourself this: Will the ACC be tempted to kill the NCAA to get its hands on the tournament money which will almost certainly disproportionately enhance the revenue of the ACC relative to its competition?

^^^^^^^^

[Image: giphy.gif]



Some think way too small.. 04-cheers

I mean, let's think this through: As time goes on, fewer and fewer parents are going to subject their children to dementia (premature or otherwise) in the hopes that their kid will somehow strike gold through the dying sport of tackle gridiron.... So....?


So...I'd suggest sprinkling the ACC's basketball footprint with a few from the Big East + UK and KU and they're gold. It's all over at that point... Let the rest of the P for "pathetic" try to keep up. LOLOLOLOLOL
05-08-2020 07:03 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: If the P5 does secede from the NCAA a better question is
(05-08-2020 07:03 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-08-2020 06:32 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-08-2020 02:44 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-08-2020 02:42 AM)chester Wrote:  
(05-07-2020 10:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Regarding whether the premise is the P5 leaving the NCAA is plausible, ask yourself this: Will the ACC be tempted to kill the NCAA to get its hands on the tournament money which will almost certainly disproportionately enhance the revenue of the ACC relative to its competition?

^^^^^^^^

[Image: giphy.gif]



Some think way too small.. 04-cheers

I mean, let's think this through: As time goes on, fewer and fewer parents are going to subject their children to dementia (premature or otherwise) in the hopes that their kid will somehow strike gold through the dying sport of tackle gridiron.... So....?


So...I'd suggest sprinkling the ACC's basketball footprint with a few from the Big East + UK and KU and they're gold. It's all over at that point... Let the rest of the P for "pathetic" try to keep up. LOLOLOLOLOL

Except for this simple problem...

The ACC are WUSSIES. Pure and simple, they are WUSSIES. Like all other pathetic "Power" conferences, they don' t have the balls to shake any sh*t up. Flipping wussies...
05-08-2020 07:27 AM
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