This really seems to be a huge over-reaction. Avg age of death from this not-even-close-to-as-deadly-as-regular-flu bug is currently 80. As for one example, I don't know that many octogenarians who are regularly getting out to sports events and hitting the town. While some are in good shape, a lot stay close to home and watch sports games remotely anyway. Also at risk are the very young, babies--few of which seem to go out to games. Finally, those that are very ill or sickly in the first place, and few if any of them are hanging out at ballparks or ballgames rather than convalescing at home or a hospital or clinic. So who is this for? If Kershaw or Acuna, Jr. gets the virus, they are on DL for a week or two, stay home, drink fluids and are back--maybe a little longer than if they get the regular flu, but they are in less danger from this coronabug than the regular flu.
One of the few benefits of the current hysteria this may help, and I'm willing to bet the effects are only temporarily, is the millions of folks who go to public places and public restrooms and do not even attempt to wash their hands at all, much less taking 20-30 seconds to vigorously wash with soap and dry them. Men are notoriously failing to do this, but many more women than you think also do not wash their hands or wash them thoroughly. If we'd all simply use better daily hygiene habits, which costs little to nothing, we could cut medical care costs and the effects of these bugs down by a significant factor.
I'll disagree with these decisions, as I think there are a few agendas behind them, but cancelling or delaying all these events seems rash and irresponsible needlessly stoking fear at a level unwarranted for something that is not very deadly versus other, more common illnesses out there that people routinely seem to ignore. For one example, HIOV infections and such should reasonably be far more concerning and behavior-changing, as the risk-to-infection rates and possible severe health consequences or death risks are much higher. But trying to ask people to act responsibly in that area is like trying to pull a camel through a needle.
If levels of deaths approach the actual flu (I think one figure I've seen is annually around 60,0000 regular flu deaths per season just in US alone--whereas this bug has only around 40 deaths so far--and regular flu kills younger folks but this virus seems most dangerous primarily for folks around 80) I'll reassess.
Most guidance from medical experts seems to be that even those who actually become infected with this coronabug may not even see any significant symptoms, if at all, and most all will overcome it normally. It would seem best simply to keep clean and get bed-rest if needed (and most of us could use a bit more than we get anyway--put down the phones for a while and turn them off, not on standby--read a book or two instead; and I know, I'm here posting today, but I haven't been on for a few days as I've been pretty busy with work so I have been absolutely amazed at the rampant unnecessary hysteria levels that have been stirred up. The lack of intelligence of the people propagated by the public education system of the past several decades is showing clearly. Chicken, meet heads cut off.
Artist: The Magnetic Fields
Album: 69 Love Songs
Song: "A Chicken with Its Head Cut Off"
September 7, 1999 Merge Records
If you're elderly, or sickly, or a baby then you need to be concerned and take these extra precautions. The rest of America would do well to start using soap and water for 20-30 seconds every time they use the restroom and just get back to work already.
I'm also tremendously disappointed in those from the conservative side who seem to have fallen for this ruse, though haven't lost my mind enough to even consider voting for the imbeciles from the left who are eagerly fanning the non-necessary panic in a political attempt to change an election outcome that cannot win based on merit. Other than chicken noodle soup sales spiking, there really doesn't appear to be the need for any major economic or societal disruption effects.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2020 12:08 PM by GoodOwl.)
This situation as it currently stands seems to be a massive over-reaction, hyped by political agendas on both sides nationally, as well as agendas and irresponsibility internationally, that too many are afraid for calling out due to their myopic "wearetheworld" mentalities which is not the way things really are. We have too much of importance ceded to nations that are at best divergent in interest to the US and at worst are enemies who care not for our nation or way of life or actively seek to destroy it.
As to the homefront, the media and the Dems have a vested interest in over-hyping this and scaring everyone into submission, both to improve their abysmal ratings, and to attempt to win an election it is clear from the voting totals this primary season that they cannot win based on merit or constructive ideas. If Trump was impeached for supposed election meddling with a political opponent, then the Dems in Congress, every single one, should fairly likewise be impeached for their roles in trying to use this to interfere with Trumps and the American economy's success, with which they do not agree. The Dems would have us return to the Obissmal days of tepid economy bordering on collapse, and lo and behold they have finally found a way to succeed with their agenda.
Right now, the stock market is on sale, good buys and values to be had, and smart investors will pounce while fools panic like toddlers having a tantrum.
As to characterizations of the public in the work to change behaviors, I do think there is some merit to that perspective, as we are seeing collectively the effects of public education and lack of family coherence that is affecting people's abilities to make rational and reasonable decisions and take reasonable daily measures that people would have been better taking in the first place. If no one teaches you to have good hygiene, on a daily basis, if you grow up in broken homes and families that even when intact are more concerned about their phones' health than their own or their children's, if the higher education arenas are dominated by correct-think progressive wonks that push government paternalism and are against actual paters, then this is the mindless idiotic reaction you get.
People want pills to do for them what a little common sense could at little to no cost. But we overburden our medical system with testing and doctors visits that waste trillions in time and money needlessly while complaining about costs. The many expect the government to do for them what they should be doing for themselves. If the intrepid folks who survived massively worse epidemics and hardships to found this country were watching, most of them wouldn't have bothered. We should be embarrassed by what we are doing to ourselves.
(03-13-2020 10:56 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: This situation as it currently stands seems to be a massive over-reaction, hyped by political agendas on both sides nationally, as well as agendas and irresponsibility internationally, that too many are afraid for calling out due to their myopic "wearetheworld" mentalities which is not the way things really are. We have too much of importance ceded to nations that are at best divergent in interest to the US and at worst are enemies who care not for our nation or way of life or actively seek to destroy it.
As to the homefront, the media and the Dems have a vested interest in over-hyping this and scaring everyone into submission, both to improve their abysmal ratings, and to attempt to win an election it is clear from the voting totals this primary season that they cannot win based on merit or constructive ideas. If Trump was impeached for supposed election meddling with a political opponent, then the Dems in Congress, every single one, should fairly likewise be impeached for their roles in trying to use this to interfere with Trumps and the American economy's success, with which they do not agree. The Dems would have us return to the Obissmal days of tepid economy bordering on collapse, and lo and behold they have finally found a way to succeed with their agenda.
Right now, the stock market is on sale, good buys and values to be had, and smart investors will pounce while fools panic like toddlers having a tantrum.
As to characterizations of the public in the work to change behaviors, I do think there is some merit to that perspective, as we are seeing collectively the effects of public education and lack of family coherence that is affecting people's abilities to make rational and reasonable decisions and take reasonable daily measures that people would have been better taking in the first place. If no one teaches you to have good hygiene, on a daily basis, if you grow up in broken homes and families that even when intact are more concerned about their phones' health than their own or their children's, if the higher education arenas are dominated by correct-think progressive wonks that push government paternalism and are against actual paters, then this is the mindless idiotic reaction you get.
People want pills to do for them what a little common sense could at little to no cost. But we overburden our medical system with testing and doctors visits that waste trillions in time and money needlessly while complaining about costs. The many expect the government to do for them what they should be doing for themselves. If the intrepid folks who survived massively worse epidemics and hardships to found this country were watching, most of them wouldn't have bothered. We should be embarrassed by what we are doing to ourselves.
If thats the case, why are other nations doing the exact same thing? The local US political landscape is not relevant in these other nations. Look---this is about one thing and one thing only---NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. If you overwhelm the healthcare system---it aint gunna be JUST Covid-19 victims that start dying needlessly. Heart attack victims, stroke victims, accident victims, allergic reactions, etc will start to lose the ability to get quick life saving care. Its about preserving the ability of the healthcare system to function properly.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2020 11:06 AM by Attackcoog.)
(03-13-2020 10:56 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: This situation as it currently stands seems to be a massive over-reaction, hyped by political agendas on both sides nationally, as well as agendas and irresponsibility internationally, that too many are afraid for calling out due to their myopic "wearetheworld" mentalities which is not the way things really are. We have too much of importance ceded to nations that are at best divergent in interest to the US and at worst are enemies who care not for our nation or way of life or actively seek to destroy it.
As to the homefront, the media and the Dems have a vested interest in over-hyping this and scaring everyone into submission, both to improve their abysmal ratings, and to attempt to win an election it is clear from the voting totals this primary season that they cannot win based on merit or constructive ideas. If Trump was impeached for supposed election meddling with a political opponent, then the Dems in Congress, every single one, should fairly likewise be impeached for their roles in trying to use this to interfere with Trumps and the American economy's success, with which they do not agree. The Dems would have us return to the Obissmal days of tepid economy bordering on collapse, and lo and behold they have finally found a way to succeed with their agenda.
Right now, the stock market is on sale, good buys and values to be had, and smart investors will pounce while fools panic like toddlers having a tantrum.
As to characterizations of the public in the work to change behaviors, I do think there is some merit to that perspective, as we are seeing collectively the effects of public education and lack of family coherence that is affecting people's abilities to make rational and reasonable decisions and take reasonable daily measures that people would have been better taking in the first place. If no one teaches you to have good hygiene, on a daily basis, if you grow up in broken homes and families that even when intact are more concerned about their phones' health than their own or their children's, if the higher education arenas are dominated by correct-think progressive wonks that push government paternalism and are against actual paters, then this is the mindless idiotic reaction you get.
People want pills to do for them what a little common sense could at little to no cost. But we overburden our medical system with testing and doctors visits that waste trillions in time and money needlessly while complaining about costs. The many expect the government to do for them what they should be doing for themselves. If the intrepid folks who survived massively worse epidemics and hardships to found this country were watching, most of them wouldn't have bothered. We should be embarrassed by what we are doing to ourselves.
If thats the case, why are other nations doing the exact same thing? The local US political landscape is not relevant in these other nations. Look---this is about one thing and one thing only---NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. If you overwhelm the healthcare system---it aint gunna be JUST Covid-19 victims that start dying needlessly. Heart attack victims, stroke victims, accident victims, allergic reactions, etc will start to lose the ability to get quick life saving care. Its about preserving the ability of the healthcare system to function properly.
With a wife in hospital administration, I can assure you this is not an over-reaction. The testing processes are f’d and far more people have it than have been tested. Too, the strain placed on our healthcare system, in the event of an outbreak could be catastrophic. Her hospital had a symptomatic patient come in last Wednesday, and exposed 14 staff members to possible infection. They could only swab the patient and then drive the specimen to a central location in a different part of the state. Yesterday, they found out the patient was actually negative, but had they tested positive, a large portion of their staff would have had to be quarantined. We’re dancing on a tightrope with this virus and should be thankful so many are taking such drastic measures, even if it seems overboard. Simply look to the cluster in Italy where the strain on their system is breaking.
I think cancelling sporting events was probably the right thing to do.
First, the concern now seems to have shifted from preventing the spread to containing the spread. We need to "flatten the curve" to allow hospitals sometime to process sick people coming in to be treated and not overwhelm the whole system.
Second, I understand that for the majority of the population, getting the coronavirus would be somewhat mild, with symptoms similiar to the average flu. However, this is much more deadly to vulnerable members of our society when compared to the average flu. The elderly, infants, and people with compromised immune systems and respiratory problems. So while it may not be a big deal if Joe Smo, Age 35 gets it by attending a hockey game, we should be worried that Joe Smo may spread the virus to his elderly grandmother.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2020 11:10 AM by BobcatEngineer.)
(03-13-2020 11:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: With a wife in hospital administration, I can assure you this is not an over-reaction. The testing processes are f’d and far more people have it than have been tested. Too, the strain placed on our healthcare system, in the event of an outbreak could be catastrophic. Her hospital had a symptomatic patient come in last Wednesday, and exposed 14 staff members to possible infection. They could only swab the patient and then drive the specimen to a central location in a different part of the state. Yesterday, they found out the patient was actually negative, but had they tested positive, a large portion of their staff would have had to be quarantined. We’re dancing on a tightrope with this virus and should be thankful so many are taking such drastic measures, even if it seems overboard. Simply look to the cluster in Italy where the strain on their system is breaking.
Your wife should be fired if she has ANYTHING to do with precaution protocol in that hospital. There is no reason any staff in a hospital should be compromised by infection, much less 14. Most hospitals are where sick people go. Everyone I know that works in the medical field think this is ridiculous and if it were known by the public the type of bugs that are in medical facilities on a daily basis, no one would every step foot in one.
(03-13-2020 11:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: If thats the case, why are other nations doing the exact same thing? The local US political landscape is not relevant in these other nations. Look---this is about one thing and one thing only---NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. If you overwhelm the healthcare system---it aint gunna be JUST Covid-19 victims that start dying needlessly. Heart attack victims, stroke victims, accident victims, allergic reactions, etc will start to lose the ability to get quick life saving care. Its about preserving the ability of the healthcare system to function properly.
Other nations also think socialism, communism and dictatorships where you cut off people's heads and throw them off buildings are good ideas, too, but I happen to disagree with them. You are free to move over to one of them if you think they're so much better, though.
Even Jesus washed his feet, so there must be something to hygiene and personal responsibility.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2020 11:23 AM by GoodOwl.)
(03-13-2020 11:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: With a wife in hospital administration, I can assure you this is not an over-reaction. The testing processes are f’d and far more people have it than have been tested. Too, the strain placed on our healthcare system, in the event of an outbreak could be catastrophic. Her hospital had a symptomatic patient come in last Wednesday, and exposed 14 staff members to possible infection. They could only swab the patient and then drive the specimen to a central location in a different part of the state. Yesterday, they found out the patient was actually negative, but had they tested positive, a large portion of their staff would have had to be quarantined. We’re dancing on a tightrope with this virus and should be thankful so many are taking such drastic measures, even if it seems overboard. Simply look to the cluster in Italy where the strain on their system is breaking.
Either NFW or that is a dumb hospital with dumb staff. Who is in charge of procedures and protocols there if they would allow that many people to become exposed when a symptomatic person walks through the door?
Ooohh - we have someone who potentially has the covid virus. Quick everybody, let's all gather around together at the same time and see what this looks like. There's no need to bring any protective clothing, gloves or masks or anything.
I think cancelling sporting events was probably the right thing to do.
First, the concern now seems to have shifted from preventing the spread to containing the spread. We need to "flatten the curve" to allow hospitals sometime to process sick people coming in to be treated and not overwhelm the whole system.
Second, I understand that for the majority of the population, getting the coronavirus would be somewhat mild, with symptoms similiar to the average flu. However, this is much more deadly to vulnerable members of our society when compared to the average flu. The elderly, infants, and people with compromised immune systems and respiratory problems. So while it may not be a big deal if Joe Smo, Age 35 gets it by attending a hockey game, we should be worried that Joe Smo may spread the virus to his elderly grandmother.
You have to realize the Italy outbreak is a large cluster concentrated in 1 region. The disaster wasn't the virus itself, but the fact that it crushed their health care infrastructure and the had to let the people die to care for others. The US cases are spread out over the entire country. You aren't comparing apples to apples. It may well get to that point, but that graph is useless here.
i mean, a coupla positives are testing ourselves for the real thing (which who knows with this one), the hygiene like you said and bringing the world that much closer. if we both got the same diseases, it's irrelevant.... girl. that's a lyric from a frightened rabbit song
my ten month old has had respiratory issues since day one. nothing serious; we take her to o.t. when we can get in with our therapist. does the trick. this winter has been hard on her. er once, urgent care once; in the same week. always has snotty nose and the joys of using the snot sucker on a crying baby. it's a harrowing experience
so i'm cautious about this thing. i hope obviously it's an over reaction and maybe the logic of fool me once will never prevail. i dunno; maybe we'll always fall for these things. right now it seems to make sense with canceling everything. i know it's just more than sports affected in terms of pastimes but we can clearly do without and revel in the history of it all
(03-13-2020 11:10 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote: I think cancelling sporting events was probably the right thing to do.
First, the concern now seems to have shifted from preventing the spread to containing the spread. We need to "flatten the curve" to allow hospitals sometime to process sick people coming in to be treated and not overwhelm the whole system.
Second, I understand that for the majority of the population, getting the coronavirus would be somewhat mild, with symptoms similiar to the average flu. However, this is much more deadly to vulnerable members of our society when compared to the average flu. The elderly, infants, and people with compromised immune systems and respiratory problems. So while it may not be a big deal if Joe Smo, Age 35 gets it by attending a hockey game, we should be worried that Joe Smo may spread the virus to his elderly grandmother.
I'll, disagree with you, Bob. I believe it's more reasonable to assess that Joe Schmo's grandmother is more at risk of dying from flu or food poisoning because Joe doesn't wash his hands before cooking/eating or at the bathroom, and/or Joe picks some other bug up from the gas pump handle and passes that to her. This bug is no more deadly than any other that could kill those at risk. This is being hyped like it's Anthrax or some such and it is not, nowhere close. But that gets ratings and sells pills and test-kits, and gets the Dems their best shot at defeating trump, and that's what this is really about anyway.
Hey, I'll be glad if more people at the quickie mart or the steakhouse wash their hands before leaving the restroom for a change, but I'm not holding my breath it will happen as much as it should, both genders: men or women, or that it will last long after a few weeks of this nonsense goes around and people look to their next distractions.
Finally, Joe Schmo would do well to be more concerned about more serious things like HIV and the behaviors that needlessly put him and others at risk for stuff like that, which is far deadlier and far worse,but also far more ignored and accepted as his prerogative.
(03-13-2020 11:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: If thats the case, why are other nations doing the exact same thing? The local US political landscape is not relevant in these other nations. Look---this is about one thing and one thing only---NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. If you overwhelm the healthcare system---it aint gunna be JUST Covid-19 victims that start dying needlessly. Heart attack victims, stroke victims, accident victims, allergic reactions, etc will start to lose the ability to get quick life saving care. Its about preserving the ability of the healthcare system to function properly.
Other nations also think socialism, communism and dictatorships where you cut off people's heads and throw them off buildings are good ideas, too, but I happen to disagree with them. You are free to move over to one of them if you think they're so much better, though.
Even Jesus washed his feet, so there must be something to hygiene and personal responsibility.
Your the one crying and griping about the American reaction. If you dont like what we are doing here---there's the door. Move to Italy where they didnt do anything until it was too late. When you move to Italy you will raise the average IQ of both nations.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2020 11:34 AM by Attackcoog.)
(03-13-2020 11:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: With a wife in hospital administration, I can assure you this is not an over-reaction. The testing processes are f’d and far more people have it than have been tested. Too, the strain placed on our healthcare system, in the event of an outbreak could be catastrophic. Her hospital had a symptomatic patient come in last Wednesday, and exposed 14 staff members to possible infection. They could only swab the patient and then drive the specimen to a central location in a different part of the state. Yesterday, they found out the patient was actually negative, but had they tested positive, a large portion of their staff would have had to be quarantined. We’re dancing on a tightrope with this virus and should be thankful so many are taking such drastic measures, even if it seems overboard. Simply look to the cluster in Italy where the strain on their system is breaking.
That entire hospital staff should be fired and have their medical licenses revoked if that's the case.
(03-13-2020 11:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: With a wife in hospital administration, I can assure you this is not an over-reaction. The testing processes are f’d and far more people have it than have been tested. Too, the strain placed on our healthcare system, in the event of an outbreak could be catastrophic. Her hospital had a symptomatic patient come in last Wednesday, and exposed 14 staff members to possible infection. They could only swab the patient and then drive the specimen to a central location in a different part of the state. Yesterday, they found out the patient was actually negative, but had they tested positive, a large portion of their staff would have had to be quarantined. We’re dancing on a tightrope with this virus and should be thankful so many are taking such drastic measures, even if it seems overboard. Simply look to the cluster in Italy where the strain on their system is breaking.
That entire hospital staff should be fired and have their medical licenses revoked if that's the case.
I think cancelling sporting events was probably the right thing to do.
First, the concern now seems to have shifted from preventing the spread to containing the spread. We need to "flatten the curve" to allow hospitals sometime to process sick people coming in to be treated and not overwhelm the whole system.
Second, I understand that for the majority of the population, getting the coronavirus would be somewhat mild, with symptoms similiar to the average flu. However, this is much more deadly to vulnerable members of our society when compared to the average flu. The elderly, infants, and people with compromised immune systems and respiratory problems. So while it may not be a big deal if Joe Smo, Age 35 gets it by attending a hockey game, we should be worried that Joe Smo may spread the virus to his elderly grandmother.
Your graph leaves out one very important stat. Number of cases no longer active. As time goes on the "total number of cases" line will continue to go up until eternity if closed cases are never removed.
1) What is it that is different about all these other countries that are doing so many more tests? For one thing, they all appear to be using a WHO-developed test that we could have used too, but we chose not to. So our testing was delayed while CDC developed, and then screwed up the first batch, of our test. Why didn't we just use the same WHO test as everyone else?
2) It appears that CDC is actually making and distributing the test kits. Why? Couldn't somebody like Pfizer do it faster? CDC isn't really designed to do this sort of thing. So why are they doing it?
I think cancelling sporting events was probably the right thing to do.
First, the concern now seems to have shifted from preventing the spread to containing the spread. We need to "flatten the curve" to allow hospitals sometime to process sick people coming in to be treated and not overwhelm the whole system.
Second, I understand that for the majority of the population, getting the coronavirus would be somewhat mild, with symptoms similiar to the average flu. However, this is much more deadly to vulnerable members of our society when compared to the average flu. The elderly, infants, and people with compromised immune systems and respiratory problems. So while it may not be a big deal if Joe Smo, Age 35 gets it by attending a hockey game, we should be worried that Joe Smo may spread the virus to his elderly grandmother.
Your graph leaves out one very important stat. Number of cases no longer active. As time goes on the "total number of cases" line will continue to go up until eternity if closed cases are never removed.
It will will become a curve. It wont flatten out and start to descend until a larger and larger percentage of the population becomes immune. Once you get to a certain point, it will basically burn out because its hard for one person to infect anyone else due to so much herd immunity....unfortunately by then, the damage is done. We are probably past the point of preventing the virus from infecting a large percentage of the nation. Now its just about how fast it happens.
(03-13-2020 11:08 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: With a wife in hospital administration, I can assure you this is not an over-reaction. The testing processes are f’d and far more people have it than have been tested. Too, the strain placed on our healthcare system, in the event of an outbreak could be catastrophic. Her hospital had a symptomatic patient come in last Wednesday, and exposed 14 staff members to possible infection. They could only swab the patient and then drive the specimen to a central location in a different part of the state. Yesterday, they found out the patient was actually negative, but had they tested positive, a large portion of their staff would have had to be quarantined. We’re dancing on a tightrope with this virus and should be thankful so many are taking such drastic measures, even if it seems overboard. Simply look to the cluster in Italy where the strain on their system is breaking.
That entire hospital staff should be fired and have their medical licenses revoked if that's the case.
lol....I think he meant "asymptomatic".
Then they really should be fired for ordering an unneeded test and overburdening an already struggling system.
(03-13-2020 11:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: If thats the case, why are other nations doing the exact same thing? The local US political landscape is not relevant in these other nations. Look---this is about one thing and one thing only---NOT overwhelming the healthcare system. If you overwhelm the healthcare system---it aint gunna be JUST Covid-19 victims that start dying needlessly. Heart attack victims, stroke victims, accident victims, allergic reactions, etc will start to lose the ability to get quick life saving care. Its about preserving the ability of the healthcare system to function properly.
Other nations also think socialism, communism and dictatorships where you cut off people's heads and throw them off buildings are good ideas, too, but I happen to disagree with them. You are free to move over to one of them if you think they're so much better, though.
Even Jesus washed his feet, so there must be something to hygiene and personal responsibility.
Your the one crying and griping about the American reaction. If you dont like what we are doing here---there's the door. Move to Italy where they didnt do anything until it was too late. When you move to Italy you will raise the average IQ of both nations.
Hey, 'coog, I've got this great bridge for you, located right next to a swamp--I know you'd love to own it!
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