I think that the recent resurgence and success of EMU football will put pressure on EMU basketball to win.

At least that is what I hope. If the football program can turn it around, why not basketball? (Also, as I write this, Kent State is kicking our ass in the Mac Tourney).

What do you guys think?

“Success” is a bit of a stretch for our football program that just went 3-5 in the MAC, but I hope you’re right. Murphy’s seat should be on fire after this disappointing season, with not much to be optimistic about for next season after we lose our best player. But Creighton isn’t so different from Murphy. I could very easily see a 4 or 5 win season coming up for the football program. Hope the people on this board are as hard on Creighton as they have been on Murphy if that happens.

(03-09-2020 07:29 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  “Success” is a bit of a stretch for our football program that just went 3-5 in the MAC, but I hope you’re right. Murphy’s seat should be on fire after this disappointing season, with not much to be optimistic about for next season after we lose our best player. But Creighton isn’t so different from Murphy. I could very easily see a 4 or 5 win season coming up for the football program. Hope the people on this board are as hard on Creighton as they have been on Murphy if that happens.

I've always supported Murphy, but after nine seasons of limited success, it's hard not to be critical. I do agree that Creighton should be questioned and still has more work to do. However, Creighton has given us two bowl games. Murphy has given us a CIT tournament that nobody cares about.

You’re showing the difference between football and basketball. Mediocrity is rewarded with a televised bowl game in football. It isn’t in basketball. Creighton has had a better than .500 MAC record exactly once in his entire tenure, and we basically deify him here.

Murphy should be fired, but I understand if he isn’t. This season was very disappointing, as was last season. But there is a massive double standard when it comes to both programs.

I'm just glad to see the football program off of life support.Hopefully, this is just the beginning, with or without Creighton.

The key difference between Murphy and Creighton is that Creighton's teams tend to over achieve while Murphy's under achieve. CC also has the guts to make adjustments, like changing the DC when the previous guy wasn't getting it done. Murphy's only adjustment is changing 80% of his roster this year.

Number of years since EMU's last winning season before taking the job:

Murphy: 2 years (2009-2010)
Creighton: 19 years (1995)

Creighton faced many more challenges in getting us to the level were at.

(03-09-2020 08:40 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Number of years since EMU's last winning season before taking the job:

Murphy: 2 years (2009-2010)
Creighton: 19 years (1995)

Creighton faced many more challenges in getting us to the level were at.

Come on. Ramsey went 8-8 in the MAC in 09-10. Ron English went 4-4 in the MAC in 2011. We haven’t been a legitimate MAC contender in hoops since the 90’s. Everyone acts like we were some basketball powerhouse before Murphy got here. The Ramsey years were brutal.

Basically everyone’s evaluation of Creighton starts with how historically bad our football program was before he got here. That was a great story in 2016, but when do we start expecting better results? Or are we satisfied with mediocre football?

Again, we harp on Murphy for mediocre-to-poor results, and rightfully so. I doubt we will do the same if Creighton goes 4-8 in 2020.

Creighton and Murphy are equivalent in-game coaches. But Creighton is good at PR and in the community. Murphy would have had a lot more goodwill if he had worked with a publicist early in his career.

I agree that with Boone and Ramsey the men's basketball team was on life support. Are we there again?

I'll repeat what I posted elsewhere:

CMU/EMU/WMU all lost last night. None hosted games.

The MAC West has been mediocre for at least a decade (MAC's success is in the East with UB, Akron, etc.).

Oakland's run is over. UDM's program hit rock bottom.

What is wrong with mid-major hoops in Michigan????

The good players seem to leave the state. Danny Pippen kicked our ass yesterday, Justin Turner is a star at BG, Nick Perkins was a 4-year monster at Buffalo...and all of them are from SE Michigan. Those are just a few from the top of my head, and I’m sure there are more.

The solution to that, if you can’t get these kids to stay in-state, is to find better talent elsewhere. Murphy has done that, but he’s not good at developing talent. I’m not sure Nick Perkins would’ve been nearly the same player if he came to EMU, and that’s a shame. Hopefully our next coach can develop talent, but I think we will miss the caliber of player that Murphy brought in.

(03-09-2020 10:19 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Creighton and Murphy are equivalent in-game coaches. But Creighton is good at PR and in the community. Murphy would have had a lot more goodwill if he had worked with a publicist early in his career.

Yep, this is the answer. Mix that in with the fear of reverting back to perennially going 1-11 or 2-10, and that’s why fans seem far more afraid of losing Creighton than Murphy.

I hate to dog Creighton, because I really like him. He’s revived this program and raised the bar, despite some awful schedules (including and especially this upcoming one). But the consistently poor in-game decisions have cost us so many MAC games over the years, and our defense regressed significantly in ‘19 with no legitimate reason to expect improvement this year. I hope I’m wrong, and will happily eat a ton of crow, but 2020 could be rough.

(03-09-2020 08:21 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The key difference between Murphy and Creighton is that Creighton's teams tend to over achieve while Murphy's under achieve. CC also has the guts to make adjustments, like changing the DC when the previous guy wasn't getting it done. Murphy's only adjustment is changing 80% of his roster this year.

This simply isn’t true.
Murphy let go of two coaches before the 2017-2018 season. The team then had their best record of Murphy’s time here that season.

(03-09-2020 08:40 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Number of years since EMU's last winning season before taking the job:

Murphy: 2 years (2009-2010)
Creighton: 19 years (1995)

Creighton faced many more challenges in getting us to the level were at.

English was MAC Coach of the Year and a few seconds away from bowl eligibility until a Ball State field goal changed all that.

(03-10-2020 06:02 AM)KPJ Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 08:40 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Number of years since EMU's last winning season before taking the job:

Murphy: 2 years (2009-2010)
Creighton: 19 years (1995)

Creighton faced many more challenges in getting us to the level were at.

English was MAC Coach of the Year and a few seconds away from bowl eligibility until a Ball State field goal changed all that.

Yep. Honestly, we could’ve easily been 9-3. We had heartbreaking losses to Ball State and Kent State, and gave NIU everything they could handle (that Hoskins drop still haunts me). We had a pretty good team that year. It’s a shame English couldn’t build on it.

Look if CC goes 6-6 for 8 straight years we can talk - until then its apples and oranges

(03-10-2020 07:15 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  Look if CC goes 6-6 for 8 straight years we can talk - until then its apples and oranges

How so? Because Creighton has only done it for 4 seasons? Creighton won three games his first two years, while Murphy won the MAC West with Ramsey’s scraps. I don’t think it’s as “apples and oranges” as you make it sound.

(03-10-2020 07:45 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-10-2020 07:15 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  Look if CC goes 6-6 for 8 straight years we can talk - until then its apples and oranges

How so? Because Creighton has only done it for 4 seasons? Creighton won three games his first two years, while Murphy won the MAC West with Ramsey’s scraps. I don’t think it’s as “apples and oranges” as you make it sound.

so ignoring the structural differences that go into the difference between football teams and basketball teams - both coaches took over teams that had spent years in the wilderness and were in desperate need of stabilization. Murphy pulled the team out of free fall but has failed to take the next step. i think thats something we're all critical of right? CC still has a few years until being a middle of the way team gets stale.

(03-10-2020 08:07 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(03-10-2020 07:45 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-10-2020 07:15 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  Look if CC goes 6-6 for 8 straight years we can talk - until then its apples and oranges

How so? Because Creighton has only done it for 4 seasons? Creighton won three games his first two years, while Murphy won the MAC West with Ramsey’s scraps. I don’t think it’s as “apples and oranges” as you make it sound.

so ignoring the structural differences that go into the difference between football teams and basketball teams - both coaches took over teams that had spent years in the wilderness and were in desperate need of stabilization. Murphy pulled the team out of free fall but has failed to take the next step. i think thats something we're all critical of right? CC still has a few years until being a middle of the way team gets stale.

CC is going into year 7. How much longer does he get until it is “stale”? When do we call a spade a spade? We’ve shown for the last 4 seasons that we can hang with anyone in the conference, but questionable lineups and in-game coaching has resulted in only finishing above .500 in the MAC once (5-3 in 18) with no MACC appearances. Pretty much the same qualms we have with Murphy.