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EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
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cidbearit Offline
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Post: #21
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 08:39 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  CC is going into year 7. How much longer does he get until it is “stale”? When do we call a spade a spade? We’ve shown for the last 4 seasons that we can hang with anyone in the conference, but questionable lineups and in-game coaching has resulted in only finishing above .500 in the MAC once (5-3 in 18) with no MACC appearances. Pretty much the same qualms we have with Murphy.

Keep in mind that much of the questionable play calling you are citing was done by Aaron Keen, not CC. It's CC's style to let his coaches run their squads, and for the OC, that includes in-game play calling. This coming year CC will be making the in-game calls, so the proof of the pudding, as they say, will be in the tasting. Hopefully we'll like the taste of the pudding CC will be serving. I'm optimistic that we will.
03-10-2020 08:57 AM
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FrankAnderson Online
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Post: #22
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.
03-10-2020 08:59 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #23
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
Dear EagleSam,
One difference between football and basketball, is the number of players involved. That is why it should be easier to resurrect a basketball program then a football program. I will agree that each needs to find quality players, and have sound coaching skills and attitudes, but when one program has a turnover rate of approximately twenty players a year, and the other has four, that makes a big difference in finding the right players.
Coach Creighton does need to show more of a winning tradition after seven years, so, I agree with some of the criticisms, but like I said above, I believe it is more difficult for a football program than basketball.
03-10-2020 09:00 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #24
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 08:57 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:39 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  CC is going into year 7. How much longer does he get until it is “stale”? When do we call a spade a spade? We’ve shown for the last 4 seasons that we can hang with anyone in the conference, but questionable lineups and in-game coaching has resulted in only finishing above .500 in the MAC once (5-3 in 18) with no MACC appearances. Pretty much the same qualms we have with Murphy.

Keep in mind that much of the questionable play calling you are citing was done by Aaron Keen, not CC. It's CC's style to let his coaches run their squads, and for the OC, that includes in-game play calling. This coming year CC will be making the in-game calls, so the proof of the pudding, as they say, will be in the tasting. Hopefully we'll like the taste of the pudding CC will be serving. I'm optimistic that we will.

I hope you’re right. I’m glad Creighton will be at the reins, and I think our offense will improve. I’m far more concerned with the defense that was the worst it’s been since 2015 and just graduated (by far) it’s best players. We will score points, I have no doubt. But will we stop our opponent from doing so?
03-10-2020 09:09 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #25
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 08:59 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.

I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.
03-10-2020 09:18 AM
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eastcoasteagle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 09:18 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:59 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.

I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.

It does feel like Creighton is pushing to get this program to the next level and has the skills and drive to get there. I haven't felt the same about Murphy's program in a long time.

At the very minimum, the football team is competitive in 90% of their games and I can't say the same about basketball. They just look totally lost out there sometimes.
03-10-2020 09:28 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #27
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 09:28 AM)eastcoasteagle Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:18 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:59 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.

I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.

It does feel like Creighton is pushing to get this program to the next level and has the skills and drive to get there. I haven't felt the same about Murphy's program in a long time.

At the very minimum, the football team is competitive in 90% of their games and I can't say the same about basketball. They just look totally lost out there sometimes.

Murphy’s results this year should warrant him being fired. Not arguing there. We had too many games where we weren’t competitive.

I would’ve agreed about Creighton until this past season when we got dismantled by Buffalo (at home) and CMU, who weren’t exactly world beaters. Those type of results hadn’t happened since 2015, and I’m worried they’ll happen again in 2020 with the state of our defense. If we have a poor year, then Creighton’s seat should be hot in a make-or-break 2021 season, but I’m not sure it will be.
03-10-2020 09:40 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #28
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 09:40 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:28 AM)eastcoasteagle Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:18 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:59 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.

I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.

It does feel like Creighton is pushing to get this program to the next level and has the skills and drive to get there. I haven't felt the same about Murphy's program in a long time.

At the very minimum, the football team is competitive in 90% of their games and I can't say the same about basketball. They just look totally lost out there sometimes.

Murphy’s results this year should warrant him being fired. Not arguing there. We had too many games where we weren’t competitive.

I would’ve agreed about Creighton until this past season when we got dismantled by Buffalo (at home) and CMU, who weren’t exactly world beaters. Those type of results hadn’t happened since 2015, and I’m worried they’ll happen again in 2020 with the state of our defense. If we have a poor year, then Creighton’s seat should be hot in a make-or-break 2021 season, but I’m not sure it will be.

I think CC gets a pass (unless they lay a real egg and go 3-9 or something) due to the schedule being pretty strong.
03-10-2020 10:52 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
10 Mens hoops conference contests decided by a total of 33 points
03-10-2020 11:13 AM
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EAGLE KING Offline
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EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 05:57 AM)KPJ Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 08:21 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The key difference between Murphy and Creighton is that Creighton's teams tend to over achieve while Murphy's under achieve. CC also has the guts to make adjustments, like changing the DC when the previous guy wasn't getting it done. Murphy's only adjustment is changing 80% of his roster this year.

This simply isn’t true.
Murphy let go of two coaches before the 2017-2018 season. The team then had their best record of Murphy’s time here that season.


I wouldn’t say letting Benny and company leave was him making an adjustment. They were scapegoats, he should have been leaving at that time, not his best recruiters and the ones who actually connected with the players.


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03-10-2020 05:18 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #31
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 05:18 PM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 05:57 AM)KPJ Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 08:21 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The key difference between Murphy and Creighton is that Creighton's teams tend to over achieve while Murphy's under achieve. CC also has the guts to make adjustments, like changing the DC when the previous guy wasn't getting it done. Murphy's only adjustment is changing 80% of his roster this year.

This simply isn’t true.
Murphy let go of two coaches before the 2017-2018 season. The team then had their best record of Murphy’s time here that season.


I wouldn’t say letting Benny and company leave was him making an adjustment. They were scapegoats, he should have been leaving at that time, not his best recruiters and the ones who actually connected with the players.


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Firing assistant coaches has almost always been about scapegoating. Creighton did the same thing with McCaslin.
03-10-2020 06:05 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #32
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 09:40 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:28 AM)eastcoasteagle Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:18 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:59 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.

I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.

It does feel like Creighton is pushing to get this program to the next level and has the skills and drive to get there. I haven't felt the same about Murphy's program in a long time.

At the very minimum, the football team is competitive in 90% of their games and I can't say the same about basketball. They just look totally lost out there sometimes.

Murphy’s results this year should warrant him being fired. Not arguing there. We had too many games where we weren’t competitive.

I would’ve agreed about Creighton until this past season when we got dismantled by Buffalo (at home) and CMU, who weren’t exactly world beaters. Those type of results hadn’t happened since 2015, and I’m worried they’ll happen again in 2020 with the state of our defense. If we have a poor year, then Creighton’s seat should be hot in a make-or-break 2021 season, but I’m not sure it will be.

Sam I am only going to respond to this post but on this thread all that you have proffered has been dead spot on. I share your exact concerns about the upcoming season.

Now for the Creighton bias with respect to Murphy. CC has in his tenure coached against U-T Matt Campbell (ISU), WMU PJ Fleck (Minn), NIU Rod Carey (Temple), and CMU Jim McElwain (FLA) in the MAC West, all obviously revered competitors. By contrast Murph has been matching wits with an obviously less than talented list of opposition. The ONLY two MAC West coaches with a better than .500 career conference record are Hawkins and Kowalcyk. Toledo has ZERO NCAA bids under Todd in ten years. Hawk has only won eight MAC games in the last two seasons. Unlike MAC football, there are no upper echelon programs looking at the MAC West basketball for potential replacements. Creighton and Murphy are clearly swimming in different pools.
03-10-2020 06:47 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #33
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 06:47 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:40 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:28 AM)eastcoasteagle Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:18 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:59 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  Division 1 college football and college basketball are fundamentally different. The levels of investment you need to succeed in FBS football are several orders of magnitude greater than college basketball. That's why it took so long to have a coach to get us to a consistent, decent level of play. It's much harder to do in football.

There are MANY conferences in Division 1 basketball that are smaller than the MAC. Smaller budgets, smaller coaching salaries, smaller alumni bases, worse facilities, etc. There are probably 150+ D1 programs that have fewer resources than we do. And we can play as many of those as we want in the non-conference, but people say that's equivalent to an FBS football season?

The MAC is in the bottom two of FBS, and always will be a bottom tier conference. Consider this: FOUR Ohio State assistant coaches will be making more than $1 million this season. ASSISTANTS. And that's the same level we play in!

We can only play one game against lower conferences (FCS) at a MAX per season. 1 FCS game is 8.3% of the football season, while Murphy is playing 4 games against non-NCAA, which is 12.5% of the season PLUS he gets to play worse conferences in the OOC that still are Division 1.

I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.

It does feel like Creighton is pushing to get this program to the next level and has the skills and drive to get there. I haven't felt the same about Murphy's program in a long time.

At the very minimum, the football team is competitive in 90% of their games and I can't say the same about basketball. They just look totally lost out there sometimes.

Murphy’s results this year should warrant him being fired. Not arguing there. We had too many games where we weren’t competitive.

I would’ve agreed about Creighton until this past season when we got dismantled by Buffalo (at home) and CMU, who weren’t exactly world beaters. Those type of results hadn’t happened since 2015, and I’m worried they’ll happen again in 2020 with the state of our defense. If we have a poor year, then Creighton’s seat should be hot in a make-or-break 2021 season, but I’m not sure it will be.

Sam I am only going to respond to this post but on this thread all that you have proffered has been dead spot on. I share your exact concerns about the upcoming season.

Now for the Creighton bias with respect to Murphy. CC has in his tenure coached against U-T Matt Campbell (ISU), WMU PJ Fleck (Minn), NIU Rod Carey (Temple), and CMU Jim McElwain (FLA) in the MAC West, all obviously revered competitors. By contrast Murph has been matching wits with an obviously less than talented list of opposition. The ONLY two MAC West coaches with a better than .500 career conference record are Hawkins and Kowalcyk. Toledo has ZERO NCAA bids under Todd in ten years. Hawk has only won eight MAC games in the last two seasons. Unlike MAC football, there are no upper echelon programs looking at the MAC West basketball for potential replacements. Creighton and Murphy are clearly swimming in different pools.

Jerry that was a great post!!

From a macro perspective, Creighton and Murphy seemingly are similar in performance; however, a micro perspective would indicate they should be graded differently for these reasons:

1) As posters stated earlier in the thread, football is simply more difficult to be successful in vs basketball partially due to the fact it takes more skilled
athletes to win. For example, in football there are 85 scholarship players vs 13-15 for basketball. In football, you need two deep in offense and defense which translates to a minimum of 44 very good athletes not to mention special teams. In basketball, if you have two stars and 5 role players, you can be pretty competitive. Much more difficult to manage football.

2) Football has made it to the post season 3 of last 4 years. Although these are not Championship games, I think they’re comparable to a basketball NIT game. Murphy has been to 0 NIT games in 9 seasons. The CIT that basketball played in was a purchased tournament.

3). I’ll reiterate Jerry’s point on MAC west competition because it’s very credible. Creighton has competed against football coaches from the west that move up to P5 jobs. I’m contrast, this is the worst I have ever seen MAC west basketball. EMU, CMU, WMU, NIU & Toledo all suck! I mean if Mark Montgomery can win the MAC west, that clearly demonstrates how bad the basketball is in the division. Montgomery should have been fired several seasons ago.

4) Creighton has a great reputation around the state and is finally starting to knock down the negative recruiting walls the previous incompetent football coaches built. Plus he markets EMU and the program very well in contrast to Murphy. Murphy, for the most part, paints a different image for himself and EMU. He has publicly stated that recruiting to EMU is like recruiting someone to Afghanistan. He doesn’t live in the area. I’ve heard him talk to his players in a less than flattering manner. He has publicly admonished his players on social media.

I could go on, but the bottom line is MAC Football is more difficult to succeed in when compared to MAC basketball. For these reasons I believe Creighton would always have a job at EMU if he consistently hovers between 6-7 wins.

I predict 7-8 wins for this football season!!
03-10-2020 10:21 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 05:18 PM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 05:57 AM)KPJ Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 08:21 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The key difference between Murphy and Creighton is that Creighton's teams tend to over achieve while Murphy's under achieve. CC also has the guts to make adjustments, like changing the DC when the previous guy wasn't getting it done. Murphy's only adjustment is changing 80% of his roster this year.

This simply isn’t true.
Murphy let go of two coaches before the 2017-2018 season. The team then had their best record of Murphy’s time here that season.


I wouldn’t say letting Benny and company leave was him making an adjustment. They were scapegoats, he should have been leaving at that time, not his best recruiters and the ones who actually connected with the players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think Benny White and Mike Brown leaving was Murphy idea. I think it was fallout from the Murphy Heather Lyke feud. By the way both the current. Asst Coaches brought in a 2019 Class capable of winning 20 games.
03-11-2020 07:29 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #35
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-10-2020 10:21 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 06:47 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:40 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:28 AM)eastcoasteagle Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 09:18 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I’m not talking about anything OOC. Both Creighton and Murphy have largely been very good over the years against similar D1/FBS teams from other conferences (Creighton more so lately). When it comes to MAC results, neither has been able to get us over the hump, and they’ve both had GREAT chances to do so.

I would gladly trade all 3 of those Big Ten wins that Creighton has just to even play at Ford Field for the MACC, just as I would gladly trade Murphy’s win over Michigan to see them in the championship game in Cleveland. That’s what is important. You don’t hang a banner for beating Illinois or playing well against Pittsburgh.

It does feel like Creighton is pushing to get this program to the next level and has the skills and drive to get there. I haven't felt the same about Murphy's program in a long time.

At the very minimum, the football team is competitive in 90% of their games and I can't say the same about basketball. They just look totally lost out there sometimes.

Murphy’s results this year should warrant him being fired. Not arguing there. We had too many games where we weren’t competitive.

I would’ve agreed about Creighton until this past season when we got dismantled by Buffalo (at home) and CMU, who weren’t exactly world beaters. Those type of results hadn’t happened since 2015, and I’m worried they’ll happen again in 2020 with the state of our defense. If we have a poor year, then Creighton’s seat should be hot in a make-or-break 2021 season, but I’m not sure it will be.

Sam I am only going to respond to this post but on this thread all that you have proffered has been dead spot on. I share your exact concerns about the upcoming season.

Now for the Creighton bias with respect to Murphy. CC has in his tenure coached against U-T Matt Campbell (ISU), WMU PJ Fleck (Minn), NIU Rod Carey (Temple), and CMU Jim McElwain (FLA) in the MAC West, all obviously revered competitors. By contrast Murph has been matching wits with an obviously less than talented list of opposition. The ONLY two MAC West coaches with a better than .500 career conference record are Hawkins and Kowalcyk. Toledo has ZERO NCAA bids under Todd in ten years. Hawk has only won eight MAC games in the last two seasons. Unlike MAC football, there are no upper echelon programs looking at the MAC West basketball for potential replacements. Creighton and Murphy are clearly swimming in different pools.

Jerry that was a great post!!

From a macro perspective, Creighton and Murphy seemingly are similar in performance; however, a micro perspective would indicate they should be graded differently for these reasons:

1) As posters stated earlier in the thread, football is simply more difficult to be successful in vs basketball partially due to the fact it takes more skilled
athletes to win. For example, in football there are 85 scholarship players vs 13-15 for basketball. In football, you need two deep in offense and defense which translates to a minimum of 44 very good athletes not to mention special teams. In basketball, if you have two stars and 5 role players, you can be pretty competitive. Much more difficult to manage football.

2) Football has made it to the post season 3 of last 4 years. Although these are not Championship games, I think they’re comparable to a basketball NIT game. Murphy has been to 0 NIT games in 9 seasons. The CIT that basketball played in was a purchased tournament.

3). I’ll reiterate Jerry’s point on MAC west competition because it’s very credible. Creighton has competed against football coaches from the west that move up to P5 jobs. I’m contrast, this is the worst I have ever seen MAC west basketball. EMU, CMU, WMU, NIU & Toledo all suck! I mean if Mark Montgomery can win the MAC west, that clearly demonstrates how bad the basketball is in the division. Montgomery should have been fired several seasons ago.

4) Creighton has a great reputation around the state and is finally starting to knock down the negative recruiting walls the previous incompetent football coaches built. Plus he markets EMU and the program very well in contrast to Murphy. Murphy, for the most part, paints a different image for himself and EMU. He has publicly stated that recruiting to EMU is like recruiting someone to Afghanistan. He doesn’t live in the area. I’ve heard him talk to his players in a less than flattering manner. He has publicly admonished his players on social media.

I could go on, but the bottom line is MAC Football is more difficult to succeed in when compared to MAC basketball. For these reasons I believe Creighton would always have a job at EMU if he consistently hovers between 6-7 wins.

I predict 7-8 wins for this football season!!

More than half of the FBS goes to bowl games, while less than a 3rd of D1 basketball teams go to the Big Dance or the NIT. So no, making the Quick Lane Bowl is not the same as making the NIT. The NIT doesn’t take .500 or worse teams from the MAC.

Look, your argument for Creighton would’ve been a good one in 2017 after we went 5-7 but could’ve easily gone 7-5 or 8-4. But not after the way we went 6-6 this season, where we needed a miracle punt block to beat an FCS team and couldn’t stop Kent State at home in a must-win (or so we thought at the time) game for bowl eligibility. We are trending downward, and I’m not sure how you could honestly predict even 6 wins with this schedule and defense.

The fact is, you like Creighton and will bend over backwards to defend him. That’s the difference between the two, despite similar results on the field/court.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2020 08:18 AM by EagleSam.)
03-11-2020 08:17 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #36
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
Dear EagleSam,
I would disagree with your scapegoating comment about Coach McCaslin. McCaslin's defense was a 3-4 concept, if I remember correctly, and was shredded by Eastern's opponents. Firing McCaslin was necessary to improving the defense, which has improved with the hiring of Coach Neathery.
03-11-2020 08:23 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #37
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-11-2020 08:23 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear EagleSam,
I would disagree with your scapegoating comment about Coach McCaslin. McCaslin's defense was a 3-4 concept, if I remember correctly, and was shredded by Eastern's opponents. Firing McCaslin was necessary to improving the defense, which has improved with the hiring of Coach Neathery.

In other words, scapegoating, since it’s Creighton’s job to field a competent football team. He fired McCaslin so he wouldn’t get fired himself, and changing the scheme ended up paying off in a big way. It is very common in college sports.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2020 09:02 AM by EagleSam.)
03-11-2020 09:02 AM
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Post: #38
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
The selection committees for the CIT/CBI considers OOC records when picking. Remember how I was saying Murphy has a built-in easier OOC schedule? That comes into play here. Beating teams from conferences like the MEAC, Big South and other inferior conferences helps make the CIT/CBI resume. Creighton only gets one comparable game AT MOST per year.

Remember that Central Connecticut was a Top 25 FCS team and made the FCS playoffs. In the final Sagarins (which combines FBS and FCS) CCSU finished 160 (including higher than multiple FBS teams). That puts them at the 37th percentile in Division 1. This season Detroit Mercy finished at 306 out of 353 in the NET rankings. That puts them at the 13th percentile in Division 1.

Yes, we should be disappointed in barely beating CCSU. But barely beating UDM is statistically more embarrassing.
03-11-2020 09:30 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #39
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
(03-11-2020 09:30 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  The selection committees for the CIT/CBI considers OOC records when picking. Remember how I was saying Murphy has a built-in easier OOC schedule? That comes into play here. Beating teams from conferences like the MEAC, Big South and other inferior conferences helps make the CIT/CBI resume. Creighton only gets one comparable game AT MOST per year.

Remember that Central Connecticut was a Top 25 FCS team and made the FCS playoffs. In the final Sagarins (which combines FBS and FCS) CCSU finished 160 (including higher than multiple FBS teams). That puts them at the 37th percentile in Division 1. This season Detroit Mercy finished at 306 out of 353 in the NET rankings. That puts them at the 13th percentile in Division 1.

Yes, we should be disappointed in barely beating CCSU. But barely beating UDM is statistically more embarrassing.

And again, as I’ve said multiple times, Murphy should be fired for how this season went. Not sure why you keep comparing results from this season as an argument, but since you are, Murphy also beat the eventual Conference USA champ on the road in what was many of his players’ first D1 game ever.

That CCSU game was a sign of things to come for our defense, which struggled to stop any competent offense. We would’ve destroyed them in 2018. I’ll never complain about wins, but that was a miracle away from being a complete embarrassment. Honestly, if the Quick Lane Bowl would’ve taken Toledo instead of us after that awful Kent State game, I think many would have different feelings about Creighton right now. But hey, we played Pitt tough.

Creighton is able to get his teams up for Illinois and Purdue and Pitt, but not Ball State or Kent State for some reason. He’s only beat 4 MAC teams that finished the season 6-6 or better in his entire tenure, and 2 of those wins were in 2016. He’s good at beating the bottom feeders...just like Murphy is, until this year at least.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2020 10:09 AM by EagleSam.)
03-11-2020 10:09 AM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #40
RE: EMU Football's Effect on EMU Basketball
Sam, you actually believe that I am biased because I just plain like Creighton? Once again you are 100% correct.

I love the way he comports himself.

I emailed Wetherbee and congratulated him when he sold our home game back to Kentucky. The AD replied and credited Creighton with blessing his decision. Murphy, by contrast, whined incessantly last year when he had to play Duke and Kansas.

Creighton markets his sports program, besides the Habitat for Humanity gig and such he implores fans to come to the games. I have gotten robo voice mails on my phone from him, Murphy not at all.

Hey I know those press conferences with Murphy disparaging individual players are not widely viewed. They are, however, viewed by one very important person, the player being negatively spotlighted. I could only envision Murphy's comments if he had coached the Pitt football game. "Well we had a great plan to end the game. Unfortunately our running back Shaq Vann, a six year senior could not manage to get us ten yards on three tries. Then Tauran Rush and Mike Haney were not able to pressure their QB and our experienced secondary just broke down trying to cover their receivers".

You are so right, last years team was Creighton's worst edition in the last four, our defense was found terribly wanting. His in-game strategy has not been in any way superior to Murphy's. And yes, you are 100% spot on when you say those Big Ten wins are far less important than a superior MAC performance. I'm with you, I don't care if we have a 1-3 non-conference record like NIU did 2 seasons ago. If we then win the MAC championship game like NIU, I will be very happy.

I cannot disagree with any of your reservations about Creighton and the program direction. It is indeed time for the program to make an impact in the league.
03-11-2020 06:10 PM
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