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Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
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schmolik Online
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Post: #381
RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(Today 07:28 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(Yesterday 07:59 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  
(Yesterday 05:50 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 09:47 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If “the rest of the BXII sucks”, then 340 of 355 schools suck.

Obviously you didn't read the link and if you were hinting the Big 12 is the best conference in men's basketball, 355 - 10 isn't 340 and neither is 355 - 9.

Last decade:

ACC: 130 wins, 36 Sweet 16's, 9 Final 4's, 5 Championships

Big Ten: 101 wins, 29 Sweet 16's, 8 Final 4's

SEC: 79 wins, 21 Sweet 16's, 7 Final 4's, 1 Championship

Big 12: 78 wins, 22 Sweet 16's, 5 Final 4's

Big East: 58 wins, 12 Sweet 16's, 4 Final 4's, 2 Championships

Pac-12: 46 wins, 15 Sweet 16's, 1 Final 4

AAC: 37 wins, 6 Sweet 16's, 3 Final 4's, 2 Championships

Of the 78 Big 12 wins, 24 are Kansas including 2 FF's. Take them out and they're below the Big East. Take Duke (26) out of the ACC and they're still #1. Take Duke (26) and North Carolina (24) out of the ACC and they're still ahead of both the Big 12 with Kansas and the SEC with Kentucky. Take Michigan State (21) out of the Big Ten and the Big 10's still ahead of both the SEC and Big 12 at full strength.

The ACC is #1, the Big Ten's #2, the SEC and Big 12 are fighting for #3. The data since 2000 is pretty similar. There's a reason the ACC and Big Ten are matched up in their challenge. The ACC won half of the championships in the last decade (four if Louisville's counts as a Big East title). Just because no one in the Big Ten is Kansas or Kentucky doesn't mean the SEC or Big 12 is better than the Big Ten.

Big 12 is the toughest bball conference from top to bottom. Good coaches go there and struggle..leave then become good again. It's a meat grinder. Look at the ACC the bottom is bigger than in the Big 12..reason why Sargin has the Big 12 consistently in the top 2 for the past decade... all with just one blueblood in Kansas. The ACC will always look the best because of Carolina and Duke..they are rightfully the top 2 basketball programs in the country no matter what year. Kansas is 3rd imo.

True, UNC and Duke is the best combo of any other conference. Bu theres also Louisville and Syracuse which are both top 10 all time. Then there is Notre Dame, which is top 15, and now there is Virginia. Sure the B12 is rated #1 or #2 many years, but so is the ACC. Folks who have nothing else to crow about like to talk about computer ratings. But, I dont just put confidence in computers. The ACC can also crow about results on the court, things like Final Fours, and NC's. And Kansas is not 3rd. Thats a tossup between UNC and Kentucky and Duke. But Kansas is not near those 3. They are a distant 4th, if you consider NC, Final Fours etc...

If you're trying to find the best teams, my link had them ranked.

2010-2019:
1. Kentucky (31 wins, 8 Sweet 16, 4 Final Fours, 1 Championship)
2. Duke (26, 7, 2, 2)
3. North Carolina (24, 6, 2, 1)
Tie. Kansas (24, 6, 2, 0) - But UNC won a championship and Kansas didn't
5. Michigan State (21, 6, 3, 0)
6. Gonzaga (20, 5, 1, 0)

Kentucky no doubt owned the 2010's

2000-2019:
1. North Carolina (50, 11, 6, 3)
Tie. Kansas (50, 13, 5, 1)
3. Duke (49, 15, 4, 3)
4. Michigan State (46, 12, 7, 1)
5. Kentucky (45, 12, 4, 1)

North Carolina and Kansas tied from 2000-2019 but UNC won 3 championships and Kansas won just one. Carolina also made one more Final Four. Interestingly Kentucky did not make the Final Four once in the 2000's decade (Elite Eight in 2003 and 2005).

I would say the top five are clearly the top five in men's college basketball and the ACC has two of them.

I think the most accurate stat might be performance since 1985 when they expanded to 64 teams. I don't like all time since UCLA gets credit for a ton of tournaments when the field was smaller (most of their championships they won winning just 4 games vs. 6 today and most were when only conference champions made the tournament). UCLA's not winning 7 titles in a row today. No one since 1985 has won 3 in a row and only Duke (1991, 1992) and Florida (2006, 2007) have won back to back.
Today 09:35 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #382
RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
Just my opinion but ...

The Big East at its most powerful point of evolution (after Louisville, Cincy and Marquette arrived to bolster what was an already impressive collection of programs) was the most impressive college hoops league ever assembled.

The current ACC is not on that level but is extremely strong. You could argue the league has seven of the top 25-ish programs of all time (listed in NPO): Duke, UNC, Cuse, Louisville, N.C. State, Notre Dame and Virginia
Today 09:38 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #383
RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(Today 07:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(Yesterday 07:21 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:45 AM)XLance Wrote:  I just love a good hate.

When that series resumes it going to kick off a great weekend of football.
Texas v. A&M
Florida State v. Florida
Georgia Tech v. Georgia
Clemson v. South Carolina
Louisville v. Kentucky

1) It’s not going to resume for at least another decade (as a regularly scheduled game (Post season match up may happen sooner)

2) when and if it does resume it’s not going to be on rivalry weekend. It’ll be a start of the season game like Iowa vs Iowa State

Just like the Louisville-Kentucky game.....oh wait.

Iowa/Iowa State do it like this every year since they already have conference games contracted for Rivalry Week.

Would be the same to accommodate A&M/LSU and UT vs whoever
Today 09:41 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #384
RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(Yesterday 11:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 08:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-02-2020 07:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  As for your implication that Big 12 football is better than Pac-12 football, there is no real prove of that. I do know that the Pac-12 consistently puts more talent in the NFL and more talent in the NBA. As for baseball, the Pac-12 has won more championships than any other conference, the last one in 2018 by Oregon State. For all three sports, both conferences produce good teams in all three sports. So I am not saying that the Pac-12 is better in these three sports, they just don't take a back seat to the Big 12 in any of them.

There's lots of proof for football, out of conference records, poll rankings, computer rankings.
Now you can argue there's not much of a difference or argue with other criteria, but to say there is no real "proof" is simply not true.

As for basketball, the Big 12 has been FAR superior since the last realignment. To argue otherwise just indicates you haven't followed college basketball very well. There's a good argument the Big 12 has been the absolute best conference since the realignment.

When I look at the talent from the Big 12 to the NBA and NFL, it is clear that the Pac-12 has better talent. Oklahoma has been great in football, with five consecutive conference championships. In the past five seasons, the Pac-12 has had four different schools win a Pac-12 football championship: Stanford, USC, Oregon and Washington (twice). There is no dominate school in football at this time, which has not helped in the playoffs. Kansas has won 15 of the last 16 regular season titles in the Big 12. They have dominated the Big 12, although Texas Tech had a great season in 2019 and Baylor was having a great season in 2020 until the last few games. Kansas State wins the regular season title in 2019, then falls to UC Irvine in the NCAA Tournament.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men...ay-rosters
CONFERENCE
ACC- 82
Pac-12 - 69
SEC - 63
Big 12 - 41
Big Ten - 39

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/artic...fl-rosters
CONFERENCE
SEC - 339
Big Ten - 253
ACC - 215
Pac-12 - 189
Big 12 - 131

The opening day rosters for 2019 NFL and NBA teams illustrates the difference in talent from the Pac-12 and Big 12. The talent in football is coming from primarily Oklahoma and the basketball talent is primarily coming from Kansas, although UT has produced some good basketball talent. It is more balanced in the Pac-12. That is why the last place team in the Pac-12 basketball standings (UW) could beat Baylor this season.

I'm not a big fan of using number of NBA players as a measure of a conference's strength compared to other conferences. From the numbers above one would conclude that the PAC, with 5.8 NBA players per team, is the strongest conference in the NCAA. How many people do you think believe that to be true? And UCLA with 17 has the most NBA players of any school in the PAC (behind only Kentucky (30) and Duke (25) in the NCAA). But they haven't exactly dominated their league, much less the nation.
Today 11:45 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #385
RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(Today 09:38 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Just my opinion but ...

The Big East at its most powerful point of evolution (after Louisville, Cincy and Marquette arrived to bolster what was an already impressive collection of programs) was the most impressive college hoops league ever assembled.

The current ACC is not on that level but is extremely strong. You could argue the league has seven of the top 25-ish programs of all time (listed in NPO): Duke, UNC, Cuse, Louisville, N.C. State, Notre Dame and Virginia

While I agree with that, the ACC has not had all those programs on a roll since they expanded.
Today 01:31 PM
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