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Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
Maybe I missed it but I’m very surprised this story hasn’t been linked here already. Andy Staples has an interesting column in today’s Athletic that expressly advocates the Big 12 attempting to raid the Pac-12 of its best schools.

Basically, it makes the point that the Pac 12 attempted to raid the Big 12 several years ago and that now it is time for some payback. Also, he quotes the USC AD as basically saying that they were in play if a more attractive offer were to come along.

I have some opinions on this issue, but I’d be interested in reading other people’s views as well.

“Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best”
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2020 06:42 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
03-04-2020 06:38 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
Said article got mentioned in another thread; I think the killing the Big 12 one.

For the Big 12 to do this I think at a minimum they have to be okay with cutting WVU loose. That gives room to welcome 7 PAC 12 schools. Even then I think they end up behind in the revenue game.
03-04-2020 08:19 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 08:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Said article got mentioned in another thread; I think the killing the Big 12 one.

For the Big 12 to do this I think at a minimum they have to be okay with cutting WVU loose. That gives room to welcome 7 PAC 12 schools. Even then I think they end up behind in the revenue game.

No way ISU, KSU or OSU would ever okay the precedent of booting inconvenient members. Not to mention the massive lawsuit WVU would pursue.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2020 10:34 PM by RutgersGuy.)
03-04-2020 09:31 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
so lets think- 6 schools. USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington IMO are musts. The other 2? Could see Arizona. Kind of doubt Colorado or Utah. Does USC/UCLA push for Cal/Stanford?
03-04-2020 09:47 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN. And they want leverage to can Larry Scott, who has ensconced himself in a high dollar real estate, gets paid more than any other commissioner, and by a lot, and who has made no reasonable adjustments to their very unreasonable situation.

I don't think for a second that USC is intent on moving but it makes for some good leverage.

But to play devil's advocate let's assume they would move and with the two Arizona schools and U.C.L.A. in tow, do we call that Cal-zona? It kind of sounds like a nice American-Italian pastry. I like the sound of it better than Texa-homa! Texa-homa always sounded like an assisted living place in College Station.

But if they did what would the outcome be? Maybe the Big 10 goes for Oregon, Stanford, Cal, and UW and adds Colorado and Utah as bridges. All are AAU and that would put the PAC out of its misery.
Can we say Big 20? or Big 10x2, or will it be B2G?
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2020 10:16 PM by JRsec.)
03-04-2020 10:01 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
I mean you always have to look at different models, but this seems far-fetched. Geographic limitations, size limitations, tradition limitations. Would have to be a pretty big revenue carrot.
03-04-2020 10:11 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 10:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN. And they want leverage to can Larry Scott, who has ensconced himself in a high dollar real estate, gets paid more than any other commissioner, and by a lot, and who has made no reasonable adjustments to their very unreasonable situation.

I don't think for a second that USC is intent on moving but it makes for some good leverage.

But to play devil's advocate let's assume they would move and with the two Arizona schools and U.C.L.A. in tow, do we call that Cal-zona? It kind of sounds like a nice American-Italian pastry. I like the sound of it better than Texa-homa! Texa-homa always sounded like an assisted living place in College Station.

But if they did what would the outcome be? Maybe the Big 10 goes for Oregon, Stanford, Cal, and UW and adds Colorado and Utah as bridges. All are AAU and that would put the PAC out of its misery.
Can we say Big 20? or Big 10x2, or will it be B2G?

Really think Big 12 goes after Oregon and Washington in that scenario...
03-04-2020 10:21 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 10:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN. And they want leverage to can Larry Scott, who has ensconced himself in a high dollar real estate, gets paid more than any other commissioner, and by a lot, and who has made no reasonable adjustments to their very unreasonable situation.

I don't think for a second that USC is intent on moving but it makes for some good leverage.

But to play devil's advocate let's assume they would move and with the two Arizona schools and U.C.L.A. in tow, do we call that Cal-zona? It kind of sounds like a nice American-Italian pastry. I like the sound of it better than Texa-homa! Texa-homa always sounded like an assisted living place in College Station.

But if they did what would the outcome be? Maybe the Big 10 goes for Oregon, Stanford, Cal, and UW and adds Colorado and Utah as bridges. All are AAU and that would put the PAC out of its misery.
Can we say Big 20? or Big 10x2, or will it be B2G?

I think, in the very least, if USC decides that it has to leave then they would like to take the other 3 Cali schools + the Arizona schools to their new destination. Whether that is the Big 12 or the Big Ten would be the more interesting question. The Big Ten with the historical ties to the Rose Bowl would be a big consideration. But if they go the Big 12 route then the Rose Bowl tie shifts to Big 12-Big Ten. So they could potentially share the Rose Bowl and Cotton Bowl ties. Perhaps Colorado comes crawling back should West Virginia find a new destination.

The PAC remnants would probably go the independence route: Oregon, Washington and Utah for sure.
03-04-2020 10:28 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 10:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN.

Yep.
03-04-2020 10:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 10:28 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 10:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN. And they want leverage to can Larry Scott, who has ensconced himself in a high dollar real estate, gets paid more than any other commissioner, and by a lot, and who has made no reasonable adjustments to their very unreasonable situation.

I don't think for a second that USC is intent on moving but it makes for some good leverage.

But to play devil's advocate let's assume they would move and with the two Arizona schools and U.C.L.A. in tow, do we call that Cal-zona? It kind of sounds like a nice American-Italian pastry. I like the sound of it better than Texa-homa! Texa-homa always sounded like an assisted living place in College Station.

But if they did what would the outcome be? Maybe the Big 10 goes for Oregon, Stanford, Cal, and UW and adds Colorado and Utah as bridges. All are AAU and that would put the PAC out of its misery.
Can we say Big 20? or Big 10x2, or will it be B2G?

I think, in the very least, if USC decides that it has to leave then they would like to take the other 3 Cali schools + the Arizona schools to their new destination. Whether that is the Big 12 or the Big Ten would be the more interesting question. The Big Ten with the historical ties to the Rose Bowl would be a big consideration. But if they go the Big 12 route then the Rose Bowl tie shifts to Big 12-Big Ten. So they could potentially share the Rose Bowl and Cotton Bowl ties. Perhaps Colorado comes crawling back should West Virginia find a new destination.

The PAC remnants would probably go the independence route: Oregon, Washington and Utah for sure.

I'm not so sure that taking all 4 Cali schools is in the best interest of the Big 10. They essentially get the state with 2 and could pick up Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Colorado and 4 five team divisions breaks it up in a much more manageable way. Let the Arizona and L.A. schools go to the Big 12 and the PAC is gone. Washington State and Oregon State head to the MWC.
03-04-2020 10:39 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
Here's a mythical Big20

Pacific
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Cal, Utah
Plains
Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minn, Wisky
Lakes
Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Illinois, NE
Atlantic
Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, MD

4 division games, three permanent rivals, 2 rotating over 6 years.
03-04-2020 10:42 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
Andy needs to catch up. We had a thread going on this topic almost a year ago. Doesn't he read the board?
03-04-2020 11:41 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 11:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Andy needs to catch up. We had a thread going on this topic almost a year ago. Doesn't he read the board?

Ha, there's more of these Beat Writers and bloggers that mine ideas on boards like this one than you realize. I read one a year or so ago that practically copied one of ours with just a few minor exceptions. It was once called plagiarism to do that without citing a source, but not for this generation or reporters.
03-04-2020 11:46 PM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 10:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 10:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN.

Yep.

Andy needed a filler article and this is what he came up with. He is stirring the pot or smoking the pot but either way his article missed badly. With the PAC-12 GOR, nothing could happen for the next four years. Bohn has clarified his remarks in a couple of follow-up interviews. USC is simply exerting their influence. Scott convinced the LA schools to accept an equal share. That will change down the road.
03-05-2020 12:16 AM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
If the Big 12 expands with PAC 12 schools I see them taking the Arizona schools and UCLA and USC. Though I'd think they only go for 3 PAC 12 teams 2 of which are the Arizona schools.(Maybe look at Colorado again) Bring in Cincinnati to the North and you have a decent conference. You weaken the conferences you go against PAC 12 is forced to expand from the mountain west. Let's say San Diego State, Utah State(double up in Utah and no Colorado trip) UNLV and Nevada.(Reno joins the North) PAC 12 has 1 permanent cross division rival.
AAC picks up a school from the C-USA again. The main question is where the MWC go to add. I could see new Mexico State (finally), UTEP, and add Hawaii for all sports. I don't think there's 2 other teams to add out west. You would need a California football school being 1 of the 2 adds. If they get 2 new California schools then you have Bosie be the dominate voice in the conference.

Just a random thought. Not likely to happen.
03-05-2020 12:33 AM
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schmolik Online
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
I know Bohm said everything is on the table but I'm trying to believe the four California schools being split up and I'm having a hard time with it. We're assuming the networks would pay more for Big 12 + USC/UCLA or Big 12 + USC/Stanford or whatever combination of Pac-12 California schools they want. The only way any of the schools jumps is if they would gain an earth shattering amount of money difference. Now the Big 12 could try for all four of them and that could change things. As for Colorado, they'd be returning to a conference they left. They wanted to be in a conference with California/West Coast ties. Now if one or more of the California schools move to the Big 12, that could get Colorado to move back, they'd have ties to both California and Texas. The most realistic move for the Big 12 when it comes to Pac-12 schools would be the Arizona schools and I'm not sure them leaving puts too much of a dent negative in the Pac-12 or positive in the Big 12. Utah could be a possibility as well, they could pair them with BYU if Utah wants to be in the same conference as BYU.
03-05-2020 05:37 AM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
I think you start with the idea that you could make a new conference from the "best" of the PAC and Big 12.

You start with USC, Oregon, Wash, Tex, Ok, and Kan. Then fill in the blanks from there.

Eventually you end up with this

Teams in
USC, UCLA, Cal, Ore, Wash,
Ariz, ASU, Utah, Col
Tex, Ok, OkST, Kan, ISU

Teams out
Wash ST, Ore ST, Stan, TT, :ban:Kan ST, Baylor, TCU, WV
03-05-2020 08:15 AM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-04-2020 11:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 11:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Andy needs to catch up. We had a thread going on this topic almost a year ago. Doesn't he read the board?

Ha, there's more of these Beat Writers and bloggers that mine ideas on boards like this one than you realize. I read one a year or so ago that practically copied one of ours with just a few minor exceptions. It was once called plagiarism to do that without citing a source, but not for this generation or reporters.

I've caught national sportswriters directly quoting ACCFootballRx before (I mean word-for-word). All I could do was point out that I posted mine a few hours before they posted theirs. Even in this case, I posted one hour before Andy:
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2020/...ac-12.html
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2020 08:18 AM by Hokie Mark.)
03-05-2020 08:16 AM
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-05-2020 08:16 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 11:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 11:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Andy needs to catch up. We had a thread going on this topic almost a year ago. Doesn't he read the board?

Ha, there's more of these Beat Writers and bloggers that mine ideas on boards like this one than you realize. I read one a year or so ago that practically copied one of ours with just a few minor exceptions. It was once called plagiarism to do that without citing a source, but not for this generation or reporters.

I've caught national sportswriters directly quoting ACCFootballRx before (I mean word-for-word). All I could do was point out that I posted mine a few hours before they posted theirs. Even in this case, I posted one hour before Andy:
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2020/...ac-12.html

I guess they don't give you credit though?
03-05-2020 08:23 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Staples: Now’s the time, Big 12, to go after the Pac-12’s biggest and best
(03-05-2020 12:16 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 10:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-04-2020 10:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Not happening. But good for Andy, he probably needed to stir the pot in the off season. USC wants to go back to uneven revenue sharing like they had prior to the PACN.

Yep.

Andy needed a filler article and this is what he came up with. He is stirring the pot or smoking the pot but either way his article missed badly. With the PAC-12 GOR, nothing could happen for the next four years. Bohn has clarified his remarks in a couple of follow-up interviews. USC is simply exerting their influence. Scott convinced the LA schools to accept an equal share. That will change down the road.

I suspect it will too. Scott was able to be convincing because the 2012 deal with FOX/ESPN was regarded as stupendously large at the time, such that there was a perception that now there was "plenty of money for everybody", and let's face it, a conference is always more stable with equal revenue sharing.

But now that Scott's PACN model has the PAC lagging behind in payout, the drumbeat from USC, and likely UCLA, will be heard on this, and I suspect there will be a new formula in place in a few years too.

But really, it's likely that for the next 4 years, all USC can do is grin and bear that big and widening revenue gap with their blue blood peers in the B1G, SEC, and Big 12.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2020 08:40 AM by quo vadis.)
03-05-2020 08:39 AM
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