(01-18-2020 09:51 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:20 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 04:17 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 05:46 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 11:29 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  I'm sure it did happen. That announced attendance is probably tickets sold, which would include season ticket holders that didn't come or ticket packages that were sold to businesses. That doesn't mean that when there's an actual sellout that the stadium doesn't hold 30K. That 30K number is actual a reduction from what it used to seat (35k+) when they took out the bleachers to the North of the field and replaced them with the Case building.

The stadium actually seated as many as 40K+ back in the 80's.... though it was mostly done with temporary bleachers that were rusting out.

Announced attendance is often tickets distributed. That means free tickets given away, tickets heavily discounted, admitted with a toy, veterans etc., and sometimes it appears to be a figment of someone's imagination or what sounds good.

When Tulsa removed the bleachers in the North end zone it reduced the capacity to 35,000. Several years later, they removed the bleachers on the upper West side, which contained 10,000 seats, per TU.


If your stadium seats 35,000 and you remove 10,000 seats, there is no way you have a 30,000 seat stadium. More like 25,000 seats.

They removed seats from the West side, but they added seats in vertically. They added the club level as well as a a number of suites and an enlarged press box. All that counts toward attendance. I don't agree that the west side renovation got rid of 10k seats. We've announced 30K before. They don't announce numbers that high unless we actually have that many people in attendance. I'm not necessarily saying they sold 30K tickets.... but there were certainly 30K people in the stadium.

Why would we have announced just under a sellout against Houston in 2011 (29,015) if we are willing to fudge the numbers so much. Why not just announced the sellout at 30K?

Also, if you look at pictures of the 5K north endzone that they took out, it's pretty sizeable. To have taken out 10K seats on the west side you would have had to take out the equivalent of two of those North endzone stands. We didn't take out that many on the west side.

The stadium seated 20,000 fans before it was expanded in 1965. At that time, the field was lowered and 9 rows (2,000 seats) were added to each side of the stadium for an increase of 4,000 seats. The South end zone added 6,500 seats. You can easily verify those figures. That added 10,500 seats to bring the capacity to 30,500. The addition of the upper West stands added another 10,000 seats to bring the total capacity to 40,500. Those are facts.

To summarize:

-The upper West stands did contain 10,000 seats and removing them left about 25,000 seats .
-The club seats REDUCED the capacity. They replaced regular seats that took less room.
-The only seats they added vertically or the 9 rows explained above.
-They did add 500 suite seats, but this was more than offset by the additional chair back seats vs bench seats in the East and West stands
-The stadium now seats about 25,000 -- not 30,000.

You need to quit believing the hype. Just because they publicize that the stadium seats 30,000, does not mean it seats 30,000, which it doesn't, and quit believing the announced attendance figures. Those figures are meaningless. They announce whatever suits them best.

False. You keep repeating the premise that they removed 10k seats on the west side which isn’t true. For it to be true they would have needed to have gotten rid of 2x the size of the old north end zone on the upper west side alone and not have replaced that with anything.

Bingo! That is exactly what they did. It is true, not false.

(01-13-2020 10:07 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  I think someone from each school needs to step and provide me with an all expenses paid trip to a game at their respective stadiums so I can make an objective decision.

I also support this idea and volunteer as tribute.

USF and Temple are tied for worst since they don’t have a stadium.

Tulsa. Just from what I can tell it looks like it would be the worst among teams that actually have a stadium. I have never been there though, so it could be an unfair judgement.

UCF would be next. I have not been to the stadium for a few years, but going on my last time there it is just average.

Memphis. It was a tossup between UCF and Memphis for this spot. Last time I was there was for the UCF vs Miss St. so it’s been a while. It was average as well.

ECU it was a nice stadium and some of the friendliest fans I have come across as well.

Cincy. Another nice stadium that I liked. Fans not as friendly as ECU fans, but at least your not USF fans.

Even though I have never been to Tulsa it just seems to me they would be the worst. For the rest of the teams, I have never been to your stadiums. So all judgements would be based off of television. As far as I can tell the rest would be in the same area of the ECU or Cincy stadium.

(01-13-2020 12:40 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  There should be a 30k rule in the American. Your stadium needs the capacity if at least a small div 1 stadium. My gripe with Tulsa is that stadium looks high school size. I realize it is nice, but man that is a tiny stadium.

In before you complain about ucf....I'm not a fan of our chain link, metal, etc look. When full it is irrelevant though.

That stadium is going to have some collapse issue eventually.

(01-19-2020 03:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 09:51 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:20 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 04:17 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 05:46 PM)texoma Wrote:  Announced attendance is often tickets distributed. That means free tickets given away, tickets heavily discounted, admitted with a toy, veterans etc., and sometimes it appears to be a figment of someone's imagination or what sounds good.

When Tulsa removed the bleachers in the North end zone it reduced the capacity to 35,000. Several years later, they removed the bleachers on the upper West side, which contained 10,000 seats, per TU.


If your stadium seats 35,000 and you remove 10,000 seats, there is no way you have a 30,000 seat stadium. More like 25,000 seats.

They removed seats from the West side, but they added seats in vertically. They added the club level as well as a a number of suites and an enlarged press box. All that counts toward attendance. I don't agree that the west side renovation got rid of 10k seats. We've announced 30K before. They don't announce numbers that high unless we actually have that many people in attendance. I'm not necessarily saying they sold 30K tickets.... but there were certainly 30K people in the stadium.

Why would we have announced just under a sellout against Houston in 2011 (29,015) if we are willing to fudge the numbers so much. Why not just announced the sellout at 30K?

Also, if you look at pictures of the 5K north endzone that they took out, it's pretty sizeable. To have taken out 10K seats on the west side you would have had to take out the equivalent of two of those North endzone stands. We didn't take out that many on the west side.

The stadium seated 20,000 fans before it was expanded in 1965. At that time, the field was lowered and 9 rows (2,000 seats) were added to each side of the stadium for an increase of 4,000 seats. The South end zone added 6,500 seats. You can easily verify those figures. That added 10,500 seats to bring the capacity to 30,500. The addition of the upper West stands added another 10,000 seats to bring the total capacity to 40,500. Those are facts.

To summarize:

-The upper West stands did contain 10,000 seats and removing them left about 25,000 seats .
-The club seats REDUCED the capacity. They replaced regular seats that took less room.
-The only seats they added vertically or the 9 rows explained above.
-They did add 500 suite seats, but this was more than offset by the additional chair back seats vs bench seats in the East and West stands
-The stadium now seats about 25,000 -- not 30,000.

You need to quit believing the hype. Just because they publicize that the stadium seats 30,000, does not mean it seats 30,000, which it doesn't, and quit believing the announced attendance figures. Those figures are meaningless. They announce whatever suits them best.

False. You keep repeating the premise that they removed 10k seats on the west side which isn’t true. For it to be true they would have needed to have gotten rid of 2x the size of the old north end zone on the upper west side alone and not have replaced that with anything.

Bingo! That is exactly what they did. It is true, not false.

I probably shouldn't bother.

It's just over 28.5k some seats and the clubs were added in after the westside reduction. The seat sizes also got a little smaller to squeeze in a few more spots. The original plan called for it to remain just under 35k. Bubba hadn't got the funds together yet but wanted to look good for a p5 type job, so he went with what he had. This is probably one of the contributing reasons to Graham bailing for Pitt. The 30k number comes from the opening game, it included standing room only. There wasn't really standing room and now with the growth of green in the corners their really is no standing spots (barring the little side hills in the south endzone). Of course as long as Monty is our coach this won't matter.

(01-20-2020 02:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-19-2020 03:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 09:51 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:20 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 04:17 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  They removed seats from the West side, but they added seats in vertically. They added the club level as well as a a number of suites and an enlarged press box. All that counts toward attendance. I don't agree that the west side renovation got rid of 10k seats. We've announced 30K before. They don't announce numbers that high unless we actually have that many people in attendance. I'm not necessarily saying they sold 30K tickets.... but there were certainly 30K people in the stadium.

Why would we have announced just under a sellout against Houston in 2011 (29,015) if we are willing to fudge the numbers so much. Why not just announced the sellout at 30K?

Also, if you look at pictures of the 5K north endzone that they took out, it's pretty sizeable. To have taken out 10K seats on the west side you would have had to take out the equivalent of two of those North endzone stands. We didn't take out that many on the west side.

The stadium seated 20,000 fans before it was expanded in 1965. At that time, the field was lowered and 9 rows (2,000 seats) were added to each side of the stadium for an increase of 4,000 seats. The South end zone added 6,500 seats. You can easily verify those figures. That added 10,500 seats to bring the capacity to 30,500. The addition of the upper West stands added another 10,000 seats to bring the total capacity to 40,500. Those are facts.

To summarize:

-The upper West stands did contain 10,000 seats and removing them left about 25,000 seats .
-The club seats REDUCED the capacity. They replaced regular seats that took less room.
-The only seats they added vertically or the 9 rows explained above.
-They did add 500 suite seats, but this was more than offset by the additional chair back seats vs bench seats in the East and West stands
-The stadium now seats about 25,000 -- not 30,000.

You need to quit believing the hype. Just because they publicize that the stadium seats 30,000, does not mean it seats 30,000, which it doesn't, and quit believing the announced attendance figures. Those figures are meaningless. They announce whatever suits them best.

False. You keep repeating the premise that they removed 10k seats on the west side which isn’t true. For it to be true they would have needed to have gotten rid of 2x the size of the old north end zone on the upper west side alone and not have replaced that with anything.

Bingo! That is exactly what they did. It is true, not false.

I probably shouldn't bother.

It's just over 28.5k some seats and the clubs were added in after the westside reduction. The seat sizes also got a little smaller to squeeze in a few more spots. The original plan called for it to remain just under 35k. Bubba hadn't got the funds together yet but wanted to look good for a p5 type job, so he went with what he had. This is probably one of the contributing reasons to Graham bailing for Pitt. The 30k number comes from the opening game, it included standing room only. There wasn't really standing room and now with the growth of green in the corners their really is no standing spots (barring the little side hills in the south endzone). Of course as long as Monty is our coach this won't matter.

Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

(01-20-2020 12:39 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-19-2020 03:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 09:51 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 05:20 PM)texoma Wrote:  The stadium seated 20,000 fans before it was expanded in 1965. At that time, the field was lowered and 9 rows (2,000 seats) were added to each side of the stadium for an increase of 4,000 seats. The South end zone added 6,500 seats. You can easily verify those figures. That added 10,500 seats to bring the capacity to 30,500. The addition of the upper West stands added another 10,000 seats to bring the total capacity to 40,500. Those are facts.

To summarize:

-The upper West stands did contain 10,000 seats and removing them left about 25,000 seats .
-The club seats REDUCED the capacity. They replaced regular seats that took less room.
-The only seats they added vertically or the 9 rows explained above.
-They did add 500 suite seats, but this was more than offset by the additional chair back seats vs bench seats in the East and West stands
-The stadium now seats about 25,000 -- not 30,000.

You need to quit believing the hype. Just because they publicize that the stadium seats 30,000, does not mean it seats 30,000, which it doesn't, and quit believing the announced attendance figures. Those figures are meaningless. They announce whatever suits them best.

False. You keep repeating the premise that they removed 10k seats on the west side which isn’t true. For it to be true they would have needed to have gotten rid of 2x the size of the old north end zone on the upper west side alone and not have replaced that with anything.

Bingo! That is exactly what they did. It is true, not false.

I probably shouldn't bother.

It's just over 28.5k some seats and the clubs were added in after the westside reduction. The seat sizes also got a little smaller to squeeze in a few more spots. The original plan called for it to remain just under 35k. Bubba hadn't got the funds together yet but wanted to look good for a p5 type job, so he went with what he had. This is probably one of the contributing reasons to Graham bailing for Pitt. The 30k number comes from the opening game, it included standing room only. There wasn't really standing room and now with the growth of green in the corners their really is no standing spots (barring the little side hills in the south endzone). Of course as long as Monty is our coach this won't matter.

Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

(01-20-2020 01:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 12:39 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-19-2020 03:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-18-2020 09:51 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  False. You keep repeating the premise that they removed 10k seats on the west side which isn’t true. For it to be true they would have needed to have gotten rid of 2x the size of the old north end zone on the upper west side alone and not have replaced that with anything.

Bingo! That is exactly what they did. It is true, not false.

I probably shouldn't bother.

It's just over 28.5k some seats and the clubs were added in after the westside reduction. The seat sizes also got a little smaller to squeeze in a few more spots. The original plan called for it to remain just under 35k. Bubba hadn't got the funds together yet but wanted to look good for a p5 type job, so he went with what he had. This is probably one of the contributing reasons to Graham bailing for Pitt. The 30k number comes from the opening game, it included standing room only. There wasn't really standing room and now with the growth of green in the corners their really is no standing spots (barring the little side hills in the south endzone). Of course as long as Monty is our coach this won't matter.

Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

Not much help. You really told us nothing, other than some general
gibberish and comments about yourself.

I have stated facts and figures and you post gibberish.

(01-20-2020 02:52 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 12:39 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-19-2020 03:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  Bingo! That is exactly what they did. It is true, not false.

I probably shouldn't bother.

It's just over 28.5k some seats and the clubs were added in after the westside reduction. The seat sizes also got a little smaller to squeeze in a few more spots. The original plan called for it to remain just under 35k. Bubba hadn't got the funds together yet but wanted to look good for a p5 type job, so he went with what he had. This is probably one of the contributing reasons to Graham bailing for Pitt. The 30k number comes from the opening game, it included standing room only. There wasn't really standing room and now with the growth of green in the corners their really is no standing spots (barring the little side hills in the south endzone). Of course as long as Monty is our coach this won't matter.

Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

Not much help. You really told us nothing, other than some general
gibberish and comments about yourself.

I have stated facts and figures and you post gibberish.

No, I posted where the extra 3k seats you are missing came from.

You have made a false assumption. You assumed the west stands were simply tore down to the 1965 level and a new press box was put on top. This is incorrect. The west stands were extended past the 1965 level (although not as far as the erector set). The endzone was also slightly widened. Seats were added in the suites and special seating in the Case Center. A few extra were squeezed out from making every bench seating spot slightly smaller as well as the seperate box seating sections being shrunk just a tiny bit. A new elevator was also installed to get to the suites and the press box.

I also corrected your assumption on why 30k is the official number. I also specifically told you where that number comes from for the university to claim it as factual (opening game, SRO + 28.5k).

I included how I actually know all of this to be true, as in I helped write the source of your arguement.

I have also encountered this argument many times since the opening of the stadium, it falls in the same line as the JFK assassination people are stubborn about their belief.

(01-20-2020 01:55 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 12:40 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  There should be a 30k rule in the American. Your stadium needs the capacity if at least a small div 1 stadium. My gripe with Tulsa is that stadium looks high school size. I realize it is nice, but man that is a tiny stadium.

In before you complain about ucf....I'm not a fan of our chain link, metal, etc look. When full it is irrelevant though.

That stadium is going to have some collapse issue eventually.

Not with all the engineers that have stamped that place. Besides what do you do when your 55 Million dollar stadium breaks? You just build a new one (or you can wait until you have $250 million to build a Taj Mahal)

(01-20-2020 03:05 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:52 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 12:39 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  I probably shouldn't bother.

It's just over 28.5k some seats and the clubs were added in after the westside reduction. The seat sizes also got a little smaller to squeeze in a few more spots. The original plan called for it to remain just under 35k. Bubba hadn't got the funds together yet but wanted to look good for a p5 type job, so he went with what he had. This is probably one of the contributing reasons to Graham bailing for Pitt. The 30k number comes from the opening game, it included standing room only. There wasn't really standing room and now with the growth of green in the corners their really is no standing spots (barring the little side hills in the south endzone). Of course as long as Monty is our coach this won't matter.

Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

Not much help. You really told us nothing, other than some general
gibberish and comments about yourself.

I have stated facts and figures and you post gibberish.

No, I posted where the extra 3k seats you are missing came from.

You have made a false assumption. You assumed the west stands were simply tore down to the 1965 level and a new press box was put on top. This is incorrect. The west stands were extended past the 1965 level (although not as far as the erector set). The endzone was also slightly widened. Seats were added in the suites and special seating in the Case Center. A few extra were squeezed out from making every bench seating spot slightly smaller as well as the seperate box seating sections being shrunk just a tiny bit. A new elevator was also installed to get to the suites and the press box.

I also corrected your assumption on why 30k is the official number. I also specifically told you where that number comes from for the university to claim it as factual (opening game, SRO + 28.5k).

I included how I actually know all of this to be true, as in I helped write the source of your arguement.

I have also encountered this argument many times since the opening of the stadium, it falls in the same line as the JFK assassination people are stubborn about their belief.

The 30,000 seat figure was announced before the opening game was ever played and before ticket sales were finalized. So that is not where the figure came from. I correctly told you where it came from. I believe others know who is right here and who is wrong.

(01-20-2020 04:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 03:05 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:52 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 12:39 PM)texoma Wrote:  Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

Not much help. You really told us nothing, other than some general
gibberish and comments about yourself.

I have stated facts and figures and you post gibberish.

No, I posted where the extra 3k seats you are missing came from.

You have made a false assumption. You assumed the west stands were simply tore down to the 1965 level and a new press box was put on top. This is incorrect. The west stands were extended past the 1965 level (although not as far as the erector set). The endzone was also slightly widened. Seats were added in the suites and special seating in the Case Center. A few extra were squeezed out from making every bench seating spot slightly smaller as well as the seperate box seating sections being shrunk just a tiny bit. A new elevator was also installed to get to the suites and the press box.

I also corrected your assumption on why 30k is the official number. I also specifically told you where that number comes from for the university to claim it as factual (opening game, SRO + 28.5k).

I included how I actually know all of this to be true, as in I helped write the source of your arguement.

I have also encountered this argument many times since the opening of the stadium, it falls in the same line as the JFK assassination people are stubborn about their belief.

Wrong. The 30,000 seat figure was announced before the opening game was ever played and before ticket sales were finalized. So that is not where the figure came from. Just an example of you stating stuff that is not correct. I believe others know who is right here and who is wrong.

You are correct on the last part (I believe others know who is right here and who is wrong.). Forever was correct about the rest.

(01-20-2020 04:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 03:05 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:52 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 12:39 PM)texoma Wrote:  Not correct. I guess you have not read my above posts. Just for you I will restate the facts. But first, I will correct your statements.

No club seats were added after the reduction. Besides, as I explained to Invisiblehand the club seats replaced standard seats that were smaller than the club seats. Thus club seats reduced the seating capacity. The seat sizes did not get smaller, they are as small as they can get. In fact, chair back seats were added in the center portions of the West and East stands, that reduced the seating capacity since chair back seats take more room than bench seats.

The 30,000 came from Bubba Cunningham. The old CFA supposedly had a rule that you had to have 30,000 seats to be a member. IF, that rule ever existed, it was never enforced. However, because of that, Cunningham opted to claim 30,000 seats.

Now I will restate the facts for the last time. Simple math explains why the stadium does not seat 30,000 or even 28,500.

According to the Official Tulsa Media Guide the original concrete stadium seated 14,500. In 1947 the 5,000 North end zone seats were added, increasing the seating capacity to 19,500. In 1965 the field was lowered and 9 rows of seats were added to the East and West sides, adding 2,000 seats to each side. Also, the 6,500 seat South end zone was added. That is a total of 30,000 seats. The 10,000 upper West stands were also added, bringing the total capacity to 40,235.

In 2005 the North end zone stands were demolished leaving 35,235 seats.

In 2008 the 10,000 seat upper West stands were removed leaving 25,235 seats. Not 30,000 and not 28,500.

Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

Not much help. You really told us nothing, other than some general
gibberish and comments about yourself.

I have stated facts and figures and you post gibberish.

No, I posted where the extra 3k seats you are missing came from.

You have made a false assumption. You assumed the west stands were simply tore down to the 1965 level and a new press box was put on top. This is incorrect. The west stands were extended past the 1965 level (although not as far as the erector set). The endzone was also slightly widened. Seats were added in the suites and special seating in the Case Center. A few extra were squeezed out from making every bench seating spot slightly smaller as well as the seperate box seating sections being shrunk just a tiny bit. A new elevator was also installed to get to the suites and the press box.

I also corrected your assumption on why 30k is the official number. I also specifically told you where that number comes from for the university to claim it as factual (opening game, SRO + 28.5k).

I included how I actually know all of this to be true, as in I helped write the source of your arguement.

I have also encountered this argument many times since the opening of the stadium, it falls in the same line as the JFK assassination people are stubborn about their belief.

The 30,000 seat figure was announced before the opening game was ever played and before ticket sales were finalized. So that is not where the figure came from. I correctly told you where it came from. I believe others know who is right here and who is wrong.

Did you read the post?

The part where Bubba did some fast talking? You know to get a 30k stadium instead of a 33k+? He sold the stadium as 30k with the idea that it included SRO, even though there is no where to actually put the standing crowd because the stadium was originally designed to have the corners with all the greenery that is there now. They did do it at the first game to get a factual count for the claim and because the new plant areas weren't an issue at that time. Bubba admitted publically that would be the only time we would do it and only really did so to make sure no one was turned away. The game itself didn't become a sell out till the walk up crowd appeared, because a walk up crowd has always been a thing for big games.

So yes the number was always quoted as 30k (it's what he sold the donors on) yes one time it actually reached 30k. No there are not 30k seats or 25k. It sits 28.5k including the press box, suites, clubs, handicap, etc.

Also despite what you may have been told Tulsa doesn't just generate alternate facts. They will spin and frame, but they won't outright lie.

(01-20-2020 06:31 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 04:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 03:05 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 02:52 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(01-20-2020 01:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  Let me help you out. I worked in the Athletic Department, as in I am one of the people who helped write and edit said media guide you just referenced and in particular the piece you sighted. I know where the number came from. Its 28.5 plus and the 1500ish standing room only. 30k had little to do with an NCAA rule and more to do with the original plan and Bubba dancing with some big donors and supporters to get the stadium done. The original plan called for more southern endzone changes and a bigger west grand stands add on. The number they wanted was 33-34k. Specifically because of the math on getting bigger teams to come and play in Tulsa. So when he presented the current version to them some balked. He got over by talking about striking while the iron was hot, increasing costs with delay, and some estimates tweaked in favor. Part of that tweak was viability of a 30k stadium.

Changes were made to the West stands when the structure was tore down to the original west foundation from 1965. A new bigger and modern press box was installed along with suites. The west stands were built up around the press box. Yes they did in fact shrink the seat sizes ever so slightly. They also added in the club seating at the top of the Case, along with a slight change to southern endzone and the box seating. All of which is mostly cosmetic but in the grand scheme changes the numbers a tiny bit here and there. The rebuilding of the extended seating (past the 1965 but less then the bigger 80s and 90s erector set) on the west stands added back a couple thousand. I was there for the old Skelly, then at TU for the start of remodeling and working in the Athletic department during the completion and change of Skelly stadium to Chapman although I still call it Skelly Field, mostly because it can accurately be called historic Skelly Field and Chapman Stadium can not.

Not much help. You really told us nothing, other than some general
gibberish and comments about yourself.

I have stated facts and figures and you post gibberish.

No, I posted where the extra 3k seats you are missing came from.

You have made a false assumption. You assumed the west stands were simply tore down to the 1965 level and a new press box was put on top. This is incorrect. The west stands were extended past the 1965 level (although not as far as the erector set). The endzone was also slightly widened. Seats were added in the suites and special seating in the Case Center. A few extra were squeezed out from making every bench seating spot slightly smaller as well as the seperate box seating sections being shrunk just a tiny bit. A new elevator was also installed to get to the suites and the press box.

I also corrected your assumption on why 30k is the official number. I also specifically told you where that number comes from for the university to claim it as factual (opening game, SRO + 28.5k).

I included how I actually know all of this to be true, as in I helped write the source of your arguement.

I have also encountered this argument many times since the opening of the stadium, it falls in the same line as the JFK assassination people are stubborn about their belief.

The 30,000 seat figure was announced before the opening game was ever played and before ticket sales were finalized. So that is not where the figure came from. I correctly told you where it came from. I believe others know who is right here and who is wrong.

Did you read the post?

The part where Bubba did some fast talking? You know to get a 30k stadium instead of a 33k+? He sold the stadium as 30k with the idea that it included SRO, even though there is no where to actually put the standing crowd because the stadium was originally designed to have the corners with all the greenery that is there now. They did do it at the first game to get a factual count for the claim and because the new plant areas weren't an issue at that time. Bubba admitted publically that would be the only time we would do it and only really did so to make sure no one was turned away. The game itself didn't become a sell out till the walk up crowd appeared, because a walk up crowd has always been a thing for big games.

So yes the number was always quoted as 30k (it's what he sold the donors on) yes one time it actually reached 30k. No there are not 30k seats or 25k. It sits 28.5k including the press box, suites, clubs, handicap, etc.

Also despite what you may have been told Tulsa doesn't just generate alternate facts. They will spin and frame, but they won't outright lie.

This discussion is going no where. Just more of the same stuff. Out of respect for others on this board I am done arguing with you.

(01-15-2020 03:02 PM)tigerjeb Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 11:12 PM)Cattidude Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 05:55 PM)tigerjeb Wrote:  i've been to all except Temple and its an NFL stadium so that alone with USF arent fair comparisons. its been a while since i've been to ECU and lots of work has been done there as well. the new stadiums at Tulane and Houston are nice, Yulman is just too small and that visitors side is just kind of weak. LBS is 55 years old but the $50 million or so in upgrades have really helped the old girl. a lot of that money isnt seen by the public (locker rooms, media ect) but its fine. Nippert is wedged in around other buildings but a lot of money has been poured in it especially suites and press box. i do wish the visitors side didnt have port a johns though. UCF folks love their stadium. for the general fan its really pretty spartan underneath the stands but again, its fine. I guess Tulsa would be last but its not a bad stadium. its small and the visitors side is pretty spartan, but its clean and well maintained. the scoreboard and lighting are fine and its got a nice press box. its pretty much exactly what Tulsa needs. there just arent any dog houses in this conference.

Both sides of Nippert stadium have permanent restrooms and port-a-johns so I don't understand your complaint

not a complaint, i dont care where i take a leak as long as its not on my feet. just not a good look, you dont see port a johns at most stadiums, at least the ones I've been to

As a UC ticket holder, that was one of my post-renovation complaints. They just shelled $85m into this beautiful structure and still couldn’t work out a decent plan for something as basic as bathrooms?

Other than that Nippert Rocks.

(01-15-2020 12:04 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  LOL at USF fans mad because they got two votes. Raymond James is a very nice stadium, for the NFL. All the creature comforts that the pro fan demands. But like most NFL stadiums it is sterile. I have been there for UCF/USF games and for several bowl games. The atmosphere stifles crowd participation, the music/PA system drowns out the band/cheers etc. All pro stadiums seem to have this issue. I voted for Tulsa. If you are judging for quality and comfort RJS should not be voted for here. If you are judging on atmosphere RJS just plain sucks. Sorry. My experience at FAU was better from an atmosphere standpoint. From a quality standpoint, no argument RJS is good.

To head off your rusting, metal, erector set without water fountains argument, the 2017 UCF/USF game was one of the best atmospheres I have ever experienced (as was the 2018 UCF/UC game) and I have seen games in SEC/B10/B12/ACC/IND stadiums all over the country. The truth is that construction materials and cup holders don't amount to $h1t when there is a good crowd and great atmosphere.

The atmosphere at USF games back in our Big East days was fantastic, WVU, UL, UC, KU, etc...

Ideally we would have our own on campus stadium seating around 45-50K in green gold colored seatbacks, but for a program that started up 22 years ago, RJS has served USF well. USF Football is trying to regain the great momentum it experienced during its first 15 year, but the lack of recent success is NOT due to Raymond James Stadium.

Worst stadium I have ever attended is easy: Legions Field.

I've been there twice and it was a dump.

(01-24-2020 04:49 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(01-15-2020 03:02 PM)tigerjeb Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 11:12 PM)Cattidude Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 05:55 PM)tigerjeb Wrote:  i've been to all except Temple and its an NFL stadium so that alone with USF arent fair comparisons. its been a while since i've been to ECU and lots of work has been done there as well. the new stadiums at Tulane and Houston are nice, Yulman is just too small and that visitors side is just kind of weak. LBS is 55 years old but the $50 million or so in upgrades have really helped the old girl. a lot of that money isnt seen by the public (locker rooms, media ect) but its fine. Nippert is wedged in around other buildings but a lot of money has been poured in it especially suites and press box. i do wish the visitors side didnt have port a johns though. UCF folks love their stadium. for the general fan its really pretty spartan underneath the stands but again, its fine. I guess Tulsa would be last but its not a bad stadium. its small and the visitors side is pretty spartan, but its clean and well maintained. the scoreboard and lighting are fine and its got a nice press box. its pretty much exactly what Tulsa needs. there just arent any dog houses in this conference.

Both sides of Nippert stadium have permanent restrooms and port-a-johns so I don't understand your complaint

not a complaint, i dont care where i take a leak as long as its not on my feet. just not a good look, you dont see port a johns at most stadiums, at least the ones I've been to

As a UC ticket holder, that was one of my post-renovation complaints. They just shelled $85m into this beautiful structure and still couldn’t work out a decent plan for something as basic as bathrooms?

Other than that Nippert Rocks.

I just don't think there were enough places to put in permanent bathrooms to negate having port a johns. I'd rather they have port a johns than not. That way they make sure to have enough facilities so people don't miss much of the game. I can easily leave at half time, take a wizz and get something at concessions and back to my seat before the 3rd quarter. Some of stadiums have so few restrooms that you can easily miss a quarter of the game waiting in line.