(10-14-2019 04:33 PM)vick mike Wrote: Lol at angry ECU fan about Quintin Rose. You realize who voted in this poll right? The coaches who have played against him. Why don’t y’all focus on maybe a sub 200 rpi this year, leave basketball to the hoops schools.
Dumbest argument that’s made on this board, and it’s made too much. Just because a team of 18-23 year olds loses games has no effect on what opinions grown adults are allowed to give or not give.
(10-14-2019 01:22 PM)StillJonesing Wrote: Scoring 15+ppg when you play 35 minutes and shoot .479 True shooting seriously is a negative not a positive. Literally just about any above average player, hell 35 percentile type player you give the same number of shots too would average 15+ ppg in the same situation, and likely most all of them at a much more efficient clip. That's horrible scoring and he's a guy you don't want shooting the ball if he's anywhere where close to that. This isn't 1995, the people voting on this should understand how aweful that is and not just look at ppg.
he was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on a team that made the tourney (2nd most points/main defender)
if gardner gave you rose's number and ecu made the tourney you wouldnt complain..and id have gardner 1st team... to the winner go the spoils, cause we playy to win, no to have advanced stats
you can look at the numbers all you want that is 1st team all onferene player... aoung every media release he's been unamoiusly selected
he is a 6'8 guard with the fully agility of someone 6'2..
Basketball is a team game last I checked, and it's no fault of Gardner's really he had no team around him. If anything Rose should have had less pressure on him than Gardner, with more good options around him taking it off and giving him better looks. Yet the guy couldn't throw it in the ocean.
Yenta is the real screw job here though, he had the stats and his team was solid if you want to make that the tiebreaker. As far as this guy being 6-8 guard, it doesn't matter when basically nothing translated to actually above average play or scoring when that and steals is basically all he did and the scoring is far from even average, it's terrible like the last guy you want shooting that much terrible. They lost with him on the court. You can tell coaches are all about who looks the part even if it doesn't really check out to the tangible like who's actually producing or making shots.
temple had 3 note worthy players last season, lets not act like they were deep ...and 1 wasn't a high volume scorer
temple had more pressure as it was obvious which 2 would be taking the most shots (shizz/rose) stop one and you likely win
ecu had Gardner the most efficient but shot attempts was spread almost evenly across the board per minute.. hard to put pressure on any specific player
temple is a top 80 team by everyone based around rose, remove rose and everyone would be calling lucky to get to .500
yetna should be 1st team..over rideau not rose
LMAO what dude. Gardner was double teamed every time he touched the ball. Triple teamed as soon as he drove in. The only reason other players took shoots is because they were wide open after half the defense was on Gardner. Then they bricked them.
(10-14-2019 01:22 PM)StillJonesing Wrote: Scoring 15+ppg when you play 35 minutes and shoot .479 True shooting seriously is a negative not a positive. Literally just about any above average player, hell 35 percentile type player you give the same number of shots too would average 15+ ppg in the same situation, and likely most all of them at a much more efficient clip. That's horrible scoring and he's a guy you don't want shooting the ball if he's anywhere where close to that. This isn't 1995, the people voting on this should understand how aweful that is and not just look at ppg.
he was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on a team that made the tourney (2nd most points/main defender)
if gardner gave you rose's number and ecu made the tourney you wouldnt complain..and id have gardner 1st team... to the winner go the spoils, cause we playy to win, no to have advanced stats
you can look at the numbers all you want that is 1st team all onferene player... aoung every media release he's been unamoiusly selected
he is a 6'8 guard with the fully agility of someone 6'2..
Basketball is a team game last I checked, and it's no fault of Gardner's really he had no team around him. If anything Rose should have had less pressure on him than Gardner, with more good options around him taking it off and giving him better looks. Yet the guy couldn't throw it in the ocean.
Yenta is the real screw job here though, he had the stats and his team was solid if you want to make that the tiebreaker. As far as this guy being 6-8 guard, it doesn't matter when basically nothing translated to actually above average play or scoring when that and steals is basically all he did and the scoring is far from even average, it's terrible like the last guy you want shooting that much terrible. They lost with him on the court. You can tell coaches are all about who looks the part even if it doesn't really check out to the tangible like who's actually producing or making shots.
temple had 3 note worthy players last season, lets not act like they were deep ...and 1 wasn't a high volume scorer
temple had more pressure as it was obvious which 2 would be taking the most shots (shizz/rose) stop one and you likely win
ecu had Gardner the most efficient but shot attempts was spread almost evenly across the board per minute.. hard to put pressure on any specific player
temple is a top 80 team by everyone based around rose, remove rose and everyone would be calling lucky to get to .500
yetna should be 1st team..over rideau not rose
LMAO what dude. Gardner was double teamed every time he touched the ball. Triple teamed as soon as he drove in. The only reason other players took shoots is because they were wide open after half the defense was on Gardner. Then they bricked them.
It's also just not true that it was spread out. I think he had like the 5th highest usage in the AAC. 28% of our possessions.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 10:07 AM by StillJonesing.)
(10-14-2019 01:22 PM)StillJonesing Wrote: Scoring 15+ppg when you play 35 minutes and shoot .479 True shooting seriously is a negative not a positive. Literally just about any above average player, hell 35 percentile type player you give the same number of shots too would average 15+ ppg in the same situation, and likely most all of them at a much more efficient clip. That's horrible scoring and he's a guy you don't want shooting the ball if he's anywhere where close to that. This isn't 1995, the people voting on this should understand how aweful that is and not just look at ppg.
he was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on a team that made the tourney (2nd most points/main defender)
if gardner gave you rose's number and ecu made the tourney you wouldnt complain..and id have gardner 1st team... to the winner go the spoils, cause we playy to win, no to have advanced stats
you can look at the numbers all you want that is 1st team all onferene player... aoung every media release he's been unamoiusly selected
he is a 6'8 guard with the fully agility of someone 6'2..
Basketball is a team game last I checked, and it's no fault of Gardner's really he had no team around him. If anything Rose should have had less pressure on him than Gardner, with more good options around him taking it off and giving him better looks. Yet the guy couldn't throw it in the ocean.
Yenta is the real screw job here though, he had the stats and his team was solid if you want to make that the tiebreaker. As far as this guy being 6-8 guard, it doesn't matter when basically nothing translated to actually above average play or scoring when that and steals is basically all he did and the scoring is far from even average, it's terrible like the last guy you want shooting that much terrible. They lost with him on the court. You can tell coaches are all about who looks the part even if it doesn't really check out to the tangible like who's actually producing or making shots.
temple had 3 note worthy players last season, lets not act like they were deep ...and 1 wasn't a high volume scorer
temple had more pressure as it was obvious which 2 would be taking the most shots (shizz/rose) stop one and you likely win
ecu had Gardner the most efficient but shot attempts was spread almost evenly across the board per minute.. hard to put pressure on any specific player
temple is a top 80 team by everyone based around rose, remove rose and everyone would be calling lucky to get to .500
yetna should be 1st team..over rideau not rose
LMAO what dude. Gardner was double teamed every time he touched the ball. Triple teamed as soon as he drove in. The only reason other players took shoots is because they were wide open after half the defense was on Gardner. Then they bricked them.
Will he wear a cape when he plays this year? It is just amazing to me the lengths everybody else will go to disrespect Jayden Gardner and not recognize the greatness of all things ECU basketball!
(10-14-2019 04:33 PM)vick mike Wrote: Lol at angry ECU fan about Quintin Rose. You realize who voted in this poll right? The coaches who have played against him. Why don’t y’all focus on maybe a sub 200 rpi this year, leave basketball to the hoops schools.
Dumbest argument that’s made on this board, and it’s made too much. Just because a team of 18-23 year olds loses games has no effect on what opinions grown adults are allowed to give or not give.
Sure, if you choose to focus on the dumb part. What about your boy writing paragraphs destroying a 22 year old kid for having the audacity to win a preseason poll? By the coaches who have to prepare to play against him and have seen him play for 3 years? Got anything to say against Jonesing? Didn’t think you would.
If ECU and Tulane become top 200 kenpom teams the season will be a success. They'll still likely finish 11/12 in some order but that would be MASSIVE improvement from both schools.
(10-14-2019 03:30 PM)pesik Wrote: he was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on a team that made the tourney (2nd most points/main defender)
if gardner gave you rose's number and ecu made the tourney you wouldnt complain..and id have gardner 1st team... to the winner go the spoils, cause we playy to win, no to have advanced stats
you can look at the numbers all you want that is 1st team all onferene player... aoung every media release he's been unamoiusly selected
he is a 6'8 guard with the fully agility of someone 6'2..
Basketball is a team game last I checked, and it's no fault of Gardner's really he had no team around him. If anything Rose should have had less pressure on him than Gardner, with more good options around him taking it off and giving him better looks. Yet the guy couldn't throw it in the ocean.
Yenta is the real screw job here though, he had the stats and his team was solid if you want to make that the tiebreaker. As far as this guy being 6-8 guard, it doesn't matter when basically nothing translated to actually above average play or scoring when that and steals is basically all he did and the scoring is far from even average, it's terrible like the last guy you want shooting that much terrible. They lost with him on the court. You can tell coaches are all about who looks the part even if it doesn't really check out to the tangible like who's actually producing or making shots.
temple had 3 note worthy players last season, lets not act like they were deep ...and 1 wasn't a high volume scorer
temple had more pressure as it was obvious which 2 would be taking the most shots (shizz/rose) stop one and you likely win
ecu had Gardner the most efficient but shot attempts was spread almost evenly across the board per minute.. hard to put pressure on any specific player
temple is a top 80 team by everyone based around rose, remove rose and everyone would be calling lucky to get to .500
yetna should be 1st team..over rideau not rose
LMAO what dude. Gardner was double teamed every time he touched the ball. Triple teamed as soon as he drove in. The only reason other players took shoots is because they were wide open after half the defense was on Gardner. Then they bricked them.
Will he wear a cape when he plays this year? It is just amazing to me the lengths everybody else will go to disrespect Jayden Gardner and not recognize the greatness of all things ECU basketball!
USFFan
I said multiple times Yetna was the one that got most screwed over being left off the 1st team for guys like Rose. I said that he had the most deserving case even over Gardner, but that he had one as well. That's my exact first post that started this. Hell some of the people arguing even said they agreed with that, they just want to argue to argue apparently. It's hardly a hot take to say guys like Yetna or Gardner deserve to be on the1st team over Rose. I've seen both on several other preseason 1st teams.
(10-14-2019 10:52 PM)StillJonesing Wrote: You don't need a damn metric to see how $hit this guy was at shooting the ball last year or his entire career. All true shooting does is take all the percentages and put it in an easy to understand one stop shop mathematically with the actual value and weight given to things like 3's being worth more, and with the volume of them or FT's factored in. That's IT. It's the real value of how well the guy is scoring mathematically.
Hey but if you just look at this pathetic shooting percentages individually if you want to spend more time. They say the same thing. They are terrible. As far as some of the rest lame things like 6.2 rebounds or 4.1 assist are per 100 possessions are as well not impressive. These are obvious things advance stats cuts to the chase on in an apples to apples easy to understand format. That's it, it's not complicated and I'm sick of explaining it and am done, go argue with Miggy.
A 22 year old college basketball player wins a preseason poll by the coaches in his league who have played against him for 3 years and you go on a paragraphs long tirade? I’m glad you’re done. Get a life.
(10-14-2019 04:44 PM)StillJonesing Wrote: Basketball is a team game last I checked, and it's no fault of Gardner's really he had no team around him. If anything Rose should have had less pressure on him than Gardner, with more good options around him taking it off and giving him better looks. Yet the guy couldn't throw it in the ocean.
Yenta is the real screw job here though, he had the stats and his team was solid if you want to make that the tiebreaker. As far as this guy being 6-8 guard, it doesn't matter when basically nothing translated to actually above average play or scoring when that and steals is basically all he did and the scoring is far from even average, it's terrible like the last guy you want shooting that much terrible. They lost with him on the court. You can tell coaches are all about who looks the part even if it doesn't really check out to the tangible like who's actually producing or making shots.
temple had 3 note worthy players last season, lets not act like they were deep ...and 1 wasn't a high volume scorer
temple had more pressure as it was obvious which 2 would be taking the most shots (shizz/rose) stop one and you likely win
ecu had Gardner the most efficient but shot attempts was spread almost evenly across the board per minute.. hard to put pressure on any specific player
temple is a top 80 team by everyone based around rose, remove rose and everyone would be calling lucky to get to .500
yetna should be 1st team..over rideau not rose
LMAO what dude. Gardner was double teamed every time he touched the ball. Triple teamed as soon as he drove in. The only reason other players took shoots is because they were wide open after half the defense was on Gardner. Then they bricked them.
Will he wear a cape when he plays this year? It is just amazing to me the lengths everybody else will go to disrespect Jayden Gardner and not recognize the greatness of all things ECU basketball!
USFFan
I said multiple times Yetna was the one that got most screwed over being left off the 1st team for guys like Rose. I said that he had the most deserving case even over Gardner, but that he had one as well. That's my exact first post that started this. Hell some of the people arguing even said they agreed with that, they just want to argue to argue apparently. It's hardly a hot take to say guys like Yetna or Gardner deserve to be on the1st team over Rose. I've seen both on several other preseason 1st teams.
Seems to me like Gardner needs to work on his efficiency and until he does he will be a second teamer. I would honestly compare him to Igbanu from our team. The major differences being Igbanu doesn't force many shots and his FG% is sky high because of that. Igbanu is a lot more efficient than Gardner but performs a similar task at a similar position. Gardner takes and makes more shots, but a number of the shots he takes every game are bad shots. Some go in, some don't Gardner needs to shoot over 55% from the field to be considered for first team.
Gardner is basically what Igbanu would be if Tulsa decided to run our entire offense through him instead of having a couple pieces around him that are just as important.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 11:17 AM by invisiblehand.)
(10-15-2019 11:15 AM)invisiblehand Wrote: Seems to me like Gardner needs to work on his efficiency and until he does he will be a second teamer. I would honestly compare him to Igbanu from our team. The major differences being Igbanu doesn't force many shots and his FG% is sky high because of that. Igbanu is a lot more efficient than Gardner but performs a similar task at a similar position. Gardner takes and makes more shots, but a number of the shots he takes every game are bad shots. Some go in, some don't Gardner needs to shoot over 55% from the field to be considered for first team.
When you’re your teams only offensive threat of course you’re going to take a ton of shots. Gardner’s efficiency will improve immensely this year just because teams won’t be able to ignore the four other players on the court.
(10-14-2019 04:33 PM)vick mike Wrote: Lol at angry ECU fan about Quintin Rose. You realize who voted in this poll right? The coaches who have played against him. Why don’t y’all focus on maybe a sub 200 rpi this year, leave basketball to the hoops schools.
Dumbest argument that’s made on this board, and it’s made too much. Just because a team of 18-23 year olds loses games has no effect on what opinions grown adults are allowed to give or not give.
Sure, if you choose to focus on the dumb part. What about your boy writing paragraphs destroying a 22 year old kid for having the audacity to win a preseason poll? By the coaches who have to prepare to play against him and have seen him play for 3 years? Got anything to say against Jonesing? Didn’t think you would.
Wow discussing college athletics on a forum about college athletics. Gasp. Shock. The horror.
I am 100% sure SJ has nothing against whoever as a person. I’m also sure whoever y’all are talking about doesn’t care what he says on here.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 11:21 AM by DowdyPirate.)
(10-14-2019 06:01 PM)pesik Wrote: temple had 3 note worthy players last season, lets not act like they were deep ...and 1 wasn't a high volume scorer
temple had more pressure as it was obvious which 2 would be taking the most shots (shizz/rose) stop one and you likely win
ecu had Gardner the most efficient but shot attempts was spread almost evenly across the board per minute.. hard to put pressure on any specific player
temple is a top 80 team by everyone based around rose, remove rose and everyone would be calling lucky to get to .500
yetna should be 1st team..over rideau not rose
LMAO what dude. Gardner was double teamed every time he touched the ball. Triple teamed as soon as he drove in. The only reason other players took shoots is because they were wide open after half the defense was on Gardner. Then they bricked them.
Will he wear a cape when he plays this year? It is just amazing to me the lengths everybody else will go to disrespect Jayden Gardner and not recognize the greatness of all things ECU basketball!
USFFan
I said multiple times Yetna was the one that got most screwed over being left off the 1st team for guys like Rose. I said that he had the most deserving case even over Gardner, but that he had one as well. That's my exact first post that started this. Hell some of the people arguing even said they agreed with that, they just want to argue to argue apparently. It's hardly a hot take to say guys like Yetna or Gardner deserve to be on the1st team over Rose. I've seen both on several other preseason 1st teams.
I thought you were done?
Yeah, I'm done with explaining the same simple crap to those other guys. I'll be done when I want to be done in other areas, or new guys wanting to take shots at me when it was his teams player I said was most screwed out of a first team spot.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 11:32 AM by StillJonesing.)
Rankings seem about right to me. The first and second teams are odd. Only 1 player from each of the "#1" teams, none from the 4th, 2 from the 5th and 6th teams
Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
There are only five spots. Technically we're second because of less first place votes. I'm good with that.
There are 10 spots (first and second teams, latter just not shown in copy of tweet). USF has 3 players of those 10, UConn and Temple have 2, and Memphis has one.
Sorry, I was talking about two separate things. Brainfart on my part.
(10-15-2019 11:15 AM)invisiblehand Wrote: Seems to me like Gardner needs to work on his efficiency and until he does he will be a second teamer. I would honestly compare him to Igbanu from our team. The major differences being Igbanu doesn't force many shots and his FG% is sky high because of that. Igbanu is a lot more efficient than Gardner but performs a similar task at a similar position. Gardner takes and makes more shots, but a number of the shots he takes every game are bad shots. Some go in, some don't Gardner needs to shoot over 55% from the field to be considered for first team.
Gardner is basically what Igbanu would be if Tulsa decided to run our entire offense through him instead of having a couple pieces around him that are just as important.
This is where his elite ability to get to the FT line is completely underappreciated just looking at percentages with out volumes factored in, and why things like True Shooting Percentage are important to actually understand the value of volumes and just how efficiently he did score per possession used.
He had a .567 True Shooting percentage last year. That's is highly efficient scoring, 13th in the AAC infact all while having the 5th highest usage.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 11:53 AM by StillJonesing.)
(10-15-2019 11:15 AM)invisiblehand Wrote: Seems to me like Gardner needs to work on his efficiency and until he does he will be a second teamer. I would honestly compare him to Igbanu from our team. The major differences being Igbanu doesn't force many shots and his FG% is sky high because of that. Igbanu is a lot more efficient than Gardner but performs a similar task at a similar position. Gardner takes and makes more shots, but a number of the shots he takes every game are bad shots. Some go in, some don't Gardner needs to shoot over 55% from the field to be considered for first team.
When you’re your teams only offensive threat of course you’re going to take a ton of shots. Gardner’s efficiency will improve immensely this year just because teams won’t be able to ignore the four other players on the court.
To be fair, Williams was an offensive threat for you guys too.
(10-15-2019 11:15 AM)invisiblehand Wrote: Seems to me like Gardner needs to work on his efficiency and until he does he will be a second teamer. I would honestly compare him to Igbanu from our team. The major differences being Igbanu doesn't force many shots and his FG% is sky high because of that. Igbanu is a lot more efficient than Gardner but performs a similar task at a similar position. Gardner takes and makes more shots, but a number of the shots he takes every game are bad shots. Some go in, some don't Gardner needs to shoot over 55% from the field to be considered for first team.
When you’re your teams only offensive threat of course you’re going to take a ton of shots. Gardner’s efficiency will improve immensely this year just because teams won’t be able to ignore the four other players on the court.
To be fair, Williams was an offensive threat for you guys too.
We had the 350th team 3 point shooting percentage in the nation. No one was really a threat or opened up space for him. Williams was even just an average at best 3 point shooter and not that efficient last year. .359% from 3.
(10-15-2019 11:15 AM)invisiblehand Wrote: Seems to me like Gardner needs to work on his efficiency and until he does he will be a second teamer. I would honestly compare him to Igbanu from our team. The major differences being Igbanu doesn't force many shots and his FG% is sky high because of that. Igbanu is a lot more efficient than Gardner but performs a similar task at a similar position. Gardner takes and makes more shots, but a number of the shots he takes every game are bad shots. Some go in, some don't Gardner needs to shoot over 55% from the field to be considered for first team.
When you’re your teams only offensive threat of course you’re going to take a ton of shots. Gardner’s efficiency will improve immensely this year just because teams won’t be able to ignore the four other players on the court.
To be fair, Williams was an offensive threat for you guys too.
Ehhh. The handful of games that he was hot. Usually he was not. He also was extremely one dimensional, so that teams could just put their best perimeter defender on him which isn’t really going to open anything up for Gardner.
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