(07-19-2019 06:17 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:59 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:09 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 03:48 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  Well obviously. Those schools are hoping to be backfill if UT/OU leave. That’s well documented after the previous non expansion.

I've said it a hundreds of times... What's the point Houston joining the Big12 if OU and UT aren't no longer there... Only reason I want back with UT is so that we can revive our heated games and make their fans feel like 5h1+ after Houston leaves Austin with the W.

Yes. And it remains a silly thing to say. By most any objective manner the Big12 minus UT and OK would still be a better, higher paying, more prestigious, better perceived, more geographically coherent conference than the AAC is for schools like Houston, Memphis. SMU, Cinci, Tulane, and Tulsa. People are different. So I get that you may prefer the AAC over s rebuilt Big12—but I assure you the Houston administration and the vast majority of UH fans would not share your preference.

If the only teams left are kansas state, baylor, iow state, tcu, and wvu it’s still an upgrade.

No way these ^^^ leftovers are an upgrade... No way.

Only reason those leftovers were even mentioned at all was b/c of UT and OU.

On a level $$$ playing field I'll take AAC current members over any Big12 leftovers.

I agree with this his here but I would add even if ut and ou stay i don’t care to be in that conference
I just want access to a national championship without bs stipulations for the AAC, then the money will follow

Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

(07-20-2019 09:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:24 PM)First Mate Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 05:07 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:59 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yes. And it remains a silly thing to say. By most any objective manner the Big12 minus UT and OK would still be a better, higher paying, more prestigious, better perceived, more geographically coherent conference than the AAC is for schools like Houston, Memphis. SMU, Cinci, Tulane, and Tulsa. People are different. So I get that you may prefer the AAC over s rebuilt Big12—but I assure you the Houston administration and the vast majority of UH fans would not share your preference.

If the only teams left are kansas state, baylor, iow state, tcu, and wvu it’s still an upgrade.

It’d be a hell of an upgrade. Add BYU to that mix plus the Top 6 of the AAC and you have a power level conference even if not in Name. Silly to turn that down.

If it’s not a power conference and the tv deal is basically the same (which it would be) it wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. I do understand wanting closer teams for regional travel but that’s the upgrade imo.

Take away Texas and OU and K St, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa St just don’t move the needle any more than the current AAC teams. Less in fact than some AAC teams. They have just benefited from BCS status and P5 status grandfathered on them bc of their affiliation w OU and TX. Nothing more.

I just don’t see that. You have a lot of folks pointing to ODU as the best addition simply because they have a budget that’s within 10-15 million of most current AAC schools and they sell out a little while 20K stadium. Good grief—-any leftover from the Big12 would blow away the school half the people here think is a “good fit”. TaKe four leftover B12 schools— add in BYU and the best AAC teams—give the group a nice boost with a war chest of 300 million in Big12 exit fees and a decent bowl lineup—-No AAC member is saying no to that. If there are 6 Big12 schools left it’s even better.

I think you are underestimating the number of UofH fans that want nothing to do with the b12 or it’s leftovers
I understand the b12 pays more money, I also understand the b12 plays for a championship, an A 5 championship that I personally don’t care about
I am all in on the AAC continuing to get stronger, Iam excited about the teams we have and it’s bunch of teams that have a “ chip “ on our shoulders and it’s this attitude that seems to be the glue that makes the AAC a great conference
We all seem like we have the same problems
Houston moving to the b12 would just seem unnatural and just plan gross I assume attach coog you are young

(07-21-2019 08:38 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:24 PM)First Mate Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 05:07 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:59 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  If the only teams left are kansas state, baylor, iow state, tcu, and wvu it’s still an upgrade.

It’d be a hell of an upgrade. Add BYU to that mix plus the Top 6 of the AAC and you have a power level conference even if not in Name. Silly to turn that down.

If it’s not a power conference and the tv deal is basically the same (which it would be) it wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. I do understand wanting closer teams for regional travel but that’s the upgrade imo.

Take away Texas and OU and K St, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa St just don’t move the needle any more than the current AAC teams. Less in fact than some AAC teams. They have just benefited from BCS status and P5 status grandfathered on them bc of their affiliation w OU and TX. Nothing more.

I just don’t see that. You have a lot of folks pointing to ODU as the best addition simply because they have a budget that’s within 10-15 million of most current AAC schools and they sell out a little while 20K stadium. Good grief—-any leftover from the Big12 would blow away the school half the people here think is a “good fit”. TaKe four leftover B12 schools— add in BYU and the best AAC teams—give the group a nice boost with a war chest of 300 million in Big12 exit fees and a decent bowl lineup—-No AAC member is saying no to that. If there are 6 Big12 schools left it’s even better.

I think you are underestimating the number of UofH fans that want nothing to do with the b12 or it’s leftovers
I understand the b12 pays more money, I also understand the b12 plays for a championship, an A 5 championship that I personally don’t care about
I am all in on the AAC continuing to get stronger, Iam excited about the teams we have and it’s bunch of teams that have a “ chip “ on our shoulders and it’s this attitude that seems to be the clue that makes the AAC a great conference
We all seem like we have the same problems
Houston moving to the b12 would just seem unnatural and just plan gross I assume attach coog you are young

I like this, @JHS55 I think you are on to something, love the attitude, the "Chip" on the shoulder mentality... UCF, Houston, Memphis, and ECU fans and players to some extent seem to display this the most... Wonder if it comes from the coaches these Universities like to hire.

Hope that whoever the AAC gets as a 12th member will bring plenty of the same attitude to the conference.

All we need to do as a collective voice is to hold back on the negative and at times unfounded criticism of the conference and other conference members.

(07-21-2019 07:57 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I’m not a fan of the P6 narrative (though I admit it has created some positive results). When you have to give yourself credit for something, it makes you look insecure — and invites criticism. I follow two AAC programs (both since the 1970s) and want the league to succeed but I don’t consider it a “power conference” in football. Now in men’s basketball, I do feel it is a “high major league overall” with multiple individual power programs. It is clearly a power conference in baseball. In terms of — more broadly — academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan bases, endowments, etc., it has some of the characteristics of a power conference.

Have you read the Conference's Strategic Plan, bill?
http://theamerican.org/sports/2017/4/28/...0Plan.aspx

What you are saying is actually very much aligned with what P6 is all about. It is by no means a claim that the AAC is the equivalent of the SEC or B1G today. It is saying we have more characteristics in common with those five than with the four conferences behind us, therefore group us with the five ahead of us than the other four. It is also saying that we will do everything we can - on field as well as in academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan behavior - to keep pace with the autonomy conferences, and separate from the group of four behind us. The objective isnt today, it's whatever restructure may be coming in 2025.

There are some very good points here, slhNavy91. And I understand the potential helpfulness of the plan and the narrative. However, I don't think I would agree the AAC has more in common with the leagues in the P5 than, for example and to be very specific, the Mountain West. Maybe it does. But I'm skeptical.

As to the objective related to future restructuring ... a smart move. Plant the seeds now so as to maximize the chances of as many AAC programs landing better league homes than is currently the case. I like that.

(07-21-2019 08:20 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

And would the SEC still consider Memphis today? Would Memphis be the Big12, BigTen or ACC 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice if they had to expand today? I gave you reasons why it’s not likely, but you are pointing out ancient history why you think Memphis should belong on that line. At the end of the day it’s my and your opinion in which tier Memphis belongs. I wish Memphis, Temple and the rest of the AAC good luck with their image campaign and hope the rest of the world accepts you as a peer power conference.

(07-20-2019 09:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:24 PM)First Mate Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 05:07 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:59 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 04:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yes. And it remains a silly thing to say. By most any objective manner the Big12 minus UT and OK would still be a better, higher paying, more prestigious, better perceived, more geographically coherent conference than the AAC is for schools like Houston, Memphis. SMU, Cinci, Tulane, and Tulsa. People are different. So I get that you may prefer the AAC over s rebuilt Big12—but I assure you the Houston administration and the vast majority of UH fans would not share your preference.

If the only teams left are kansas state, baylor, iow state, tcu, and wvu it’s still an upgrade.

It’d be a hell of an upgrade. Add BYU to that mix plus the Top 6 of the AAC and you have a power level conference even if not in Name. Silly to turn that down.

If it’s not a power conference and the tv deal is basically the same (which it would be) it wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. I do understand wanting closer teams for regional travel but that’s the upgrade imo.

Take away Texas and OU and K St, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa St just don’t move the needle any more than the current AAC teams. Less in fact than some AAC teams. They have just benefited from BCS status and P5 status grandfathered on them bc of their affiliation w OU and TX. Nothing more.

I just don’t see that. You have a lot of folks pointing to ODU as the best addition simply because they have a budget that’s within 10-15 million of most current AAC schools and they sell out a little while 20K stadium. Good grief—-any leftover from the Big12 would blow away the school half the people here think is a “good fit”. TaKe four leftover B12 schools— add in BYU and the best AAC teams—give the group a nice boost with a war chest of 300 million in Big12 exit fees and a decent bowl lineup—-No AAC member is saying no to that. If there are 6 Big12 schools left it’s even better.

I guess it depends on your geography. For Houston it would be fine bc most of those schools are closer. For ECU our fans couldn’t care less about Iowa St, Tcu, Baylor, etc. Sure they are nice to play in a bowl but conference mates? Not sure it would be an upgrade for us over the current Texas teams we play.

As far as ODU I’ve never said we should add them and you’re right any of those B12 leftovers would be better.

Who knows maybe if you fold the leftovers into some kind of super conference with an east/west divisions- a merger of the AAC/B12 leftovers that could maybe be considered a power conf.

But you know as well as I do if OU and a Texas leave they will contract the Power 5 to “Power4” as soon as they leave and keep the 4 team joke of a playoff and just have the 4 conference champs and shut everyone else out.

As someone else previously stated, all ECU fans want is conference that has a chance to place its champion in the playoff every year and access to the biggest bowl games. Of course we all want more money but the main thing is access.

Yes, definitely, Aresco strategy here is to position the conference in case playoff expansion occurs in the future . That aside, I think the best story lines for the AAC this season lies with Cinci. Coming of 11 wins last season, Cinci could write their own narrative by beating UCLA and upsetting Ohio State on the road. Their matchup against UCF on October 4th could be for a top ten ranking.

(07-21-2019 09:46 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:57 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I’m not a fan of the P6 narrative (though I admit it has created some positive results). When you have to give yourself credit for something, it makes you look insecure — and invites criticism. I follow two AAC programs (both since the 1970s) and want the league to succeed but I don’t consider it a “power conference” in football. Now in men’s basketball, I do feel it is a “high major league overall” with multiple individual power programs. It is clearly a power conference in baseball. In terms of — more broadly — academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan bases, endowments, etc., it has some of the characteristics of a power conference.

Have you read the Conference's Strategic Plan, bill?
http://theamerican.org/sports/2017/4/28/...0Plan.aspx

What you are saying is actually very much aligned with what P6 is all about. It is by no means a claim that the AAC is the equivalent of the SEC or B1G today. It is saying we have more characteristics in common with those five than with the four conferences behind us, therefore group us with the five ahead of us than the other four. It is also saying that we will do everything we can - on field as well as in academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan behavior - to keep pace with the autonomy conferences, and separate from the group of four behind us. The objective isnt today, it's whatever restructure may be coming in 2025.

There are some very good points here, slhNavy91. And I understand the potential helpfulness of the plan and the narrative. However, I don't think I would agree the AAC has more in common with the leagues in the P5 than, for example and to be very specific, the Mountain West. Maybe it does. But I'm skeptical.

As to the objective related to future restructuring ... a smart move. Plant the seeds now so as to maximize the chances of as many AAC programs landing better league homes than is currently the case. I like that.

One more point - recently I have very specifically been using "restructure" vs "realignment." One could make cases for/against the autonomous conferences realigning, expanding, adding/switching teams. I personally think that will be minimal if at all; if Texas/Oklahoma don't move, there wont be conference membership changes above us. But there will definitely be restructure: CFP v2, or maybe new mega-contracts demand 9- or 10-game conference schedules or real P-only OOC scheduling. That's the restructure to be on the proper side of.

And P6 is about being on the proper side of it as a conference. Look at when the strategic plan and P6 information campaign came about: after the 2016 Big XII expansion sham. That's no accident. Clear shift from fighting one another for the last lifeboat. And carryover to today and Aresco's comments about not raiding a G4 conference for a twelfth member.

Is it possible that it doesn't work, that in five years individual schools get the golden ticket, or the CFP and the autonomous conferences tell the AAC that in fact, we are just like those other four? Sure. No one has a crystal ball. Remember, that 2016 sham came out of the blue: expansion talk died with BigXII getting the conference championship game ruling they wanted, but then the announcement of the ACC Network made the BigXII want to do something in order to be doing something.

(07-21-2019 07:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I’m not a fan of the P6 narrative (though I admit it has created some positive results). When you have to give yourself credit for something, it makes you look insecure — and invites criticism. I follow two AAC programs (both since the 1970s) and want the league to succeed but I don’t consider it a “power conference” in football. Now in men’s basketball, I do feel it is a “high major league overall” with multiple individual power programs. It is clearly a power conference in baseball. In terms of — more broadly — academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan bases, endowments, etc., it has some of the characteristics of a power conference.

The P6 narrative has always been smart. Even the negative comparisons that have come from it tend to be "Here's why you're not like the SEC/Big 10," instead of here is why you're like the G4. It perceptual puts the AAC above those conference (and the on field play has mostly reflected that as well). It's a smart argument to make / battle to pick because even without convincing everyone you move the needle.

(07-21-2019 11:06 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I’m not a fan of the P6 narrative (though I admit it has created some positive results). When you have to give yourself credit for something, it makes you look insecure — and invites criticism. I follow two AAC programs (both since the 1970s) and want the league to succeed but I don’t consider it a “power conference” in football. Now in men’s basketball, I do feel it is a “high major league overall” with multiple individual power programs. It is clearly a power conference in baseball. In terms of — more broadly — academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan bases, endowments, etc., it has some of the characteristics of a power conference.

The P6 narrative has always been smart. Even the negative comparisons that have come from it tend to be "Here's why you're not like the SEC/Big 10," instead of here is why you're like the G4. It perceptual puts the AAC above those conference (and the on field play has mostly reflected that as well). It's a smart argument to make / battle to pick because even without convincing everyone you move the needle.

Good post.

(07-21-2019 09:50 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:20 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

And would the SEC still consider Memphis today? Would Memphis be the Big12, BigTen or ACC 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice if they had to expand today? I gave you reasons why it’s not likely, but you are pointing out ancient history why you think Memphis should belong on that line. At the end of the day it’s my and your opinion in which tier Memphis belongs. I wish Memphis, Temple and the rest of the AAC good luck with their image campaign and hope the rest of the world accepts you as a peer power conference.

All I can say to you “ Florida st fan “ is your offense this season is gonna be racking up big numbers because Briles is that good right here right now
Briles comes with the worst baggage and Iam glad he’s not in Houston because of said garbage, Iam just saying you will see INSTANT results from the first snap
Pin this

(07-21-2019 11:45 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 09:50 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:20 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

And would the SEC still consider Memphis today? Would Memphis be the Big12, BigTen or ACC 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice if they had to expand today? I gave you reasons why it’s not likely, but you are pointing out ancient history why you think Memphis should belong on that line. At the end of the day it’s my and your opinion in which tier Memphis belongs. I wish Memphis, Temple and the rest of the AAC good luck with their image campaign and hope the rest of the world accepts you as a peer power conference.

All I can say to you “ Florida st fan “ is your offense this season is gonna be racking up big numbers because Briles is that good right here right now
Briles comes with the worst baggage and Iam glad he’s not in Houston because of said garbage, Iam just saying you will see INSTANT results from the first snap
Pin this

We will only have him 2-3 years. He’s using this as a stepping stone to a HC job.

(07-21-2019 09:50 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:20 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

And would the SEC still consider Memphis today? Would Memphis be the Big12, BigTen or ACC 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice if they had to expand today? I gave you reasons why it’s not likely, but you are pointing out ancient history why you think Memphis should belong on that line. At the end of the day it’s my and your opinion in which tier Memphis belongs. I wish Memphis, Temple and the rest of the AAC good luck with their image campaign and hope the rest of the world accepts you as a peer power conference.

Only pointing out your inconsistencies. But yes, I believe Memphis is at the top as regards expansion candidates notwithstanding that only UT & OU would be considered by the SEC today - yes not even your school. Perceptions & opinions, we all have them but at least be consistent in evaluations if you desire credibility.

(07-21-2019 10:57 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 09:46 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:57 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I’m not a fan of the P6 narrative (though I admit it has created some positive results). When you have to give yourself credit for something, it makes you look insecure — and invites criticism. I follow two AAC programs (both since the 1970s) and want the league to succeed but I don’t consider it a “power conference” in football. Now in men’s basketball, I do feel it is a “high major league overall” with multiple individual power programs. It is clearly a power conference in baseball. In terms of — more broadly — academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan bases, endowments, etc., it has some of the characteristics of a power conference.

Have you read the Conference's Strategic Plan, bill?
http://theamerican.org/sports/2017/4/28/...0Plan.aspx

What you are saying is actually very much aligned with what P6 is all about. It is by no means a claim that the AAC is the equivalent of the SEC or B1G today. It is saying we have more characteristics in common with those five than with the four conferences behind us, therefore group us with the five ahead of us than the other four. It is also saying that we will do everything we can - on field as well as in academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan behavior - to keep pace with the autonomy conferences, and separate from the group of four behind us. The objective isnt today, it's whatever restructure may be coming in 2025.

There are some very good points here, slhNavy91. And I understand the potential helpfulness of the plan and the narrative. However, I don't think I would agree the AAC has more in common with the leagues in the P5 than, for example and to be very specific, the Mountain West. Maybe it does. But I'm skeptical.

As to the objective related to future restructuring ... a smart move. Plant the seeds now so as to maximize the chances of as many AAC programs landing better league homes than is currently the case. I like that.

One more point - recently I have very specifically been using "restructure" vs "realignment." One could make cases for/against the autonomous conferences realigning, expanding, adding/switching teams. I personally think that will be minimal if at all; if Texas/Oklahoma don't move, there wont be conference membership changes above us. But there will definitely be restructure: CFP v2, or maybe new mega-contracts demand 9- or 10-game conference schedules or real P-only OOC scheduling. That's the restructure to be on the proper side of.

And P6 is about being on the proper side of it as a conference. Look at when the strategic plan and P6 information campaign came about: after the 2016 Big XII expansion sham. That's no accident. Clear shift from fighting one another for the last lifeboat. And carryover to today and Aresco's comments about not raiding a G4 conference for a twelfth member.

Is it possible that it doesn't work, that in five years individual schools get the golden ticket, or the CFP and the autonomous conferences tell the AAC that in fact, we are just like those other four? Sure. No one has a crystal ball. Remember, that 2016 sham came out of the blue: expansion talk died with BigXII getting the conference championship game ruling they wanted, but then the announcement of the ACC Network made the BigXII want to do something in order to be doing something.

All valid points. And I do see the usefulness of "restructure."

(07-21-2019 11:06 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 07:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I’m not a fan of the P6 narrative (though I admit it has created some positive results). When you have to give yourself credit for something, it makes you look insecure — and invites criticism. I follow two AAC programs (both since the 1970s) and want the league to succeed but I don’t consider it a “power conference” in football. Now in men’s basketball, I do feel it is a “high major league overall” with multiple individual power programs. It is clearly a power conference in baseball. In terms of — more broadly — academics, overall athletic budgets, enrollments, overall budgets, fan bases, endowments, etc., it has some of the characteristics of a power conference.

The P6 narrative has always been smart. Even the negative comparisons that have come from it tend to be "Here's why you're not like the SEC/Big 10," instead of here is why you're like the G4. It perceptual puts the AAC above those conference (and the on field play has mostly reflected that as well). It's a smart argument to make / battle to pick because even without convincing everyone you move the needle.

It's kind of like the old dictum: All publicity is good publicity.

(07-21-2019 09:50 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:20 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

And would the SEC still consider Memphis today? Would Memphis be the Big12, BigTen or ACC 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice if they had to expand today? I gave you reasons why it’s not likely, but you are pointing out ancient history why you think Memphis should belong on that line. At the end of the day it’s my and your opinion in which tier Memphis belongs. I wish Memphis, Temple and the rest of the AAC good luck with their image campaign and hope the rest of the world accepts you as a peer power conference.

My father enrolled in what was then Memphis State College in 1952, served as an athletics trainer through 1960 and has loved the Tigers since. But he and I would respectfully admit that Garrettabc's point about P5 conferences wanting to expand with AAC schools "would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable" is an opinion likely held by many fair and reasonable people.

I saw my first Tiger football game in the Liberty Bowl in 1968. The athletics program has made great strides. It is worthy of credit and respect.

But I refuse to be a homer.

Temple won the AAC championship in football and won a regular season title in this league with Fran Dunphy as the head coach. I think we'll be just fine.

At least 50% of teams in the "P5" are indistinguishable from those in the AAC today; look no further than Iowa State, Kansas State, Wake Forest, TCU, Louisville, etc.

(07-21-2019 04:43 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 09:50 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:20 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-21-2019 08:03 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Ok since my character is on trial I’ll come to my own defense. Temple and Memphis fans I pointed out in another post that was largely ignored that if other P5 conferences wanted to expand with AAC schools they would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable. I already explained why. Temple and Memphis would be next in line and it’s not because they have not been good, you guys are carrying around an old perception that is difficult to break. If you don’t agree with at least some of this, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

No doubt Temple and Memphis have been 2 if the top 5 since the AAC started. I’ve already told you what needed to be done to change that perception. I admit, I forgotten the Big East expanded a year before the split. I’m sure many people have forgotten that which again proves perception and reality does not always jive. This is really the root of the argument is it not?

Since you are an apparent FSU fan, I'll point out that Memphis holds a good record (maybe even) against FSU, so the perception of which you write isn't too old. I'd call it selective to support your agenda. Memphis has been playing good football off & on since the 50s & has beat FSU on several occasions. Memphis has also been considered for SEC membership in the 60s timeframe due to their then FB success. . Either you don't know our history or you are a typical young person who thinks the only important history has occurred while you have been following college FB.

And would the SEC still consider Memphis today? Would Memphis be the Big12, BigTen or ACC 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice if they had to expand today? I gave you reasons why it’s not likely, but you are pointing out ancient history why you think Memphis should belong on that line. At the end of the day it’s my and your opinion in which tier Memphis belongs. I wish Memphis, Temple and the rest of the AAC good luck with their image campaign and hope the rest of the world accepts you as a peer power conference.

My father enrolled in what was then Memphis State College in 1952, served as an athletics trainer through 1960 and has loved the Tigers since. But he and I would respectfully admit that Garrettabc's point about P5 conferences wanting to expand with AAC schools "would find UCF, USF, UC, UH and Navy the most desirable" is an opinion likely held by many fair and reasonable people.

I saw my first Tiger football game in the Liberty Bowl in 1968. The athletics program has made great strides. It is worthy of credit and respect.

But I refuse to be a homer.

Are you implying that anyone that does not agree with Garrettabc's analysis - which you agree with - is not fair and reasonable and is therefore the product of being a homer? Surely, there is at least one - and perhaps only a tiny few - fair and reasonable non homers that think better of Memphis as being desirable for inclusion than your personal expectations?

My first Tiger game was the 27-17 win over Ole Miss - but I am not sure if that qualifies me for homer status. Maybe the fact that I graduated from the UM does though. Or maybe just the fact that I follow the Tigers every day? Not sure that means I cannot be "fair and reasonable" in my opinions.