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66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #41
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-06-2019 09:32 AM)king king Wrote:  
(04-05-2019 11:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(04-05-2019 09:38 PM)king king Wrote:  I have given no explanation of anything I believe or disbelieve so don't put words in my mouth or impart meaning.

If you believe that meaning isn't lost when languages are translated, I'll stand on my 27 years of being bilingual as proof that they are. All of them.

Still waiting on your explanation for ALL the prehuman humanoids.



Well you are welcome to any hypothetical theory you want, but the facts totally contradict what you are saying and anyone can examine those translations for themselves, Word by word, line by line. Hundreds of thousand of scholars have for many centuries now. The Bible stands the test of time and accuracy. Its literally the most studied, scrutinized and verified book in human history. You can pretend otherwise based on your own imagination, but the facts and evidence are all against you. Your entire argument is based on blind assumptions of fantasy scenarios where you imagine a word can be mistranslated and since that is not 100% impossible then that means the Bible is corrupted, highly questionable and can't be proven. Its not like you have actually studied then text and came to this conclusion, its just a fantasy scenario you are trying to disguise as a factual argument. Like I have said, if you have seriously studied the Bible and the NT, you would know its specifically written to get around language barriers by repeating the same key doctrines over and over and over again from book to book to book. When something is explained using differing words 20 different times in 20 different books and chapters, it tends to eliminate petty arguments about translation over a specific word.

Its interesting how you demand I explain a dozen different things in every single thread and you never explain or answer anything. You work very hard to dodge all direct questions and keep your own views and beliefs secret for argument sake.

Its time YOU explain/answer something. Are you a Christian or not because your comments here strongly suggest you are are not and do not believe in the bible. If God created time, space and the entire universe, how can He NOT have the ability to keep His promises about His Word being preserved for all generations?

That sounds like a very sloppy and limited God you believe in. If you believe in one at all.

Well you've made the claim that it was directly translated into the KJV version - so from the original Hebrew to Ancient Greek to Latin to English, correct? And you think there was nothing lost in translation? You accept at face value these things for which you have zero way of knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt are true when it comes to the words of the Bible as they appear to you in the English language but disagree with science when it tells you there is no way dinos and humans walked the earth together.

In your example where it talks about the "behemoth" in Job, if you go look the Hebrew word can also mean simply "beast". There is all kind of inference that has to go into that passage to land on dinosaur. And that's the problem, imo, is that the Bible as we've received it is open to interpretation along the way simply from having come through at least three other translations.

I'm a Christian. I believe PURELY on faith alone that Jesus lived, died, and rose again to provide a pathway for me to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But there is zero tangible proof he even lived. There is zero tangible proof there is a God. There is zero proof that anything other than man wrote the Bible. Because of that I continuously question everything.

Why is it that there are Neanderthals? Or Denisovans? Or homo species predating man? For that matter, why is there a boundary of ash at a precise depth that covers the entire planet and that can mathematically be matched to the time when the Chixulub crater was made by the asteroid that wiped out the dinos? Why, if man was created on the sixth day and the heavens were created on the first day, can light from 13.5 billion years ago be detected? Wouldn't man also need to be 13.5 billion minus six days old for that to be true?

I'm a natural skeptic. I also allow for there being things I cannot and do not know. I've heard that voice in my head that is not me that assures me I am on the right or wrong path. I've done lots of other things that allow me to relax into the belief that there is a God, however it's purely belief and faith. There is no proof.

Being learned in the Bible to a much greater degree than anyone else on this board, I'd expect that you'd proffer your knowledge about it when people ask. Unless you're just one of "those" Christians.

So, again, please explain to me what God says about other species of humanoids in His book.

Another point I'd like to posit - if God is perfect and never messes up why would He ever have needed to wipe the Earth clean of everything and start over again? Why would there ever need to be a Lucifer? Why evil if it is anathema to God? Those are rhetorical questions but I'm using them to ask you how can God be perfect if those things happened and/or exist?



You can't have "faith" in Jesus AND question if any of its even real my man, those two things are a TOTAL CONTRADICTION.

Your own words prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you do NOT believe in Jesus as your Lord and savoir. If you had spent any time reading the bible (You so CLEARLY have not) you would have know its impossible to have faith and salvation in Christ and question and doubt everything about it.

You can feign 1000 levels of outrage and offense over that, but the fact is its Christianity 101. If you would simply open the NT and read it for yourself you would know this. You have created your own definition of faith, one that allows you to say you are a believer, but doubt everything, claim there is zero proof at all, live your life any way you see fit, and relentless troll and attack anyone who dares share the word of God or biblical doctrine. You even take it a step further and openly question God, question His abilities, question His intentions even to the point of mocking Him.

In short, you are not a Christian at all, you are a person who simply wants to pretend to be a Christian because you think it will enhance your arguments and attacks on Christianity and the bible by claiming to be one as you relentlessly attack and mock it with gleeful intensity. YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE. As Christ said, we will know you by your fruits.

Your arguments about Behemoth and animal are about as laughable as it gets and perfectly illustrate my point. Its changes NOTHING if you use the word Behemoth or animal, because we are talking about a giant animal that the text gives a full chapter of details on its size, shape, feeding habits and everything else. Whether you use the word behemoth or animal has no bearing on anything and changes NOTHING about the chapter or the message on any level at all. NOTHING is lost, no matter if you use Behemoth or Animal.

The text was CLEARLY designed in such a manner to remove such issues and get the key doctrines across even through translation.

You have yet to put forth a single argument or example that disproves that fact, and the obvious truth is you can't. You wouldn't even know where to look in the first place.

An no, I am not changing the subject to cavemen just so you can run and hide from your "translation" arguments. There is a ton of info on the net about how cave men and other "species" of early man fit into the 6000 year biblical framework. You can google them and research them yourself.

What I want from you are concrete examples where translations in the KJB radically changed Christian doctrines or Christianity. If you can't show that then your arguments about translation making the bible meaningless are totally debunked by your own lack of evidence. I already know your argument is total fantasy, because I have spent thousands of hours study the text in both languages. You have not spent even 5 minutes of your life doing so. You are just creating fantasy arguments out of thin air.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019 08:51 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-06-2019 08:13 PM
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king king Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-06-2019 08:13 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(04-06-2019 09:32 AM)king king Wrote:  
(04-05-2019 11:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(04-05-2019 09:38 PM)king king Wrote:  I have given no explanation of anything I believe or disbelieve so don't put words in my mouth or impart meaning.

If you believe that meaning isn't lost when languages are translated, I'll stand on my 27 years of being bilingual as proof that they are. All of them.

Still waiting on your explanation for ALL the prehuman humanoids.


Well you are welcome to any hypothetical theory you want, but the facts totally contradict what you are saying and anyone can examine those translations for themselves, Word by word, line by line. Hundreds of thousand of scholars have for many centuries now. The Bible stands the test of time and accuracy. Its literally the most studied, scrutinized and verified book in human history. You can pretend otherwise based on your own imagination, but the facts and evidence are all against you. Your entire argument is based on blind assumptions of fantasy scenarios where you imagine a word can be mistranslated and since that is not 100% impossible then that means the Bible is corrupted, highly questionable and can't be proven. Its not like you have actually studied then text and came to this conclusion, its just a fantasy scenario you are trying to disguise as a factual argument. Like I have said, if you have seriously studied the Bible and the NT, you would know its specifically written to get around language barriers by repeating the same key doctrines over and over and over again from book to book to book. When something is explained using differing words 20 different times in 20 different books and chapters, it tends to eliminate petty arguments about translation over a specific word.

Its interesting how you demand I explain a dozen different things in every single thread and you never explain or answer anything. You work very hard to dodge all direct questions and keep your own views and beliefs secret for argument sake.

Its time YOU explain/answer something. Are you a Christian or not because your comments here strongly suggest you are are not and do not believe in the bible. If God created time, space and the entire universe, how can He NOT have the ability to keep His promises about His Word being preserved for all generations?

That sounds like a very sloppy and limited God you believe in. If you believe in one at all.

Well you've made the claim that it was directly translated into the KJV version - so from the original Hebrew to Ancient Greek to Latin to English, correct? And you think there was nothing lost in translation? You accept at face value these things for which you have zero way of knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt are true when it comes to the words of the Bible as they appear to you in the English language but disagree with science when it tells you there is no way dinos and humans walked the earth together.

In your example where it talks about the "behemoth" in Job, if you go look the Hebrew word can also mean simply "beast". There is all kind of inference that has to go into that passage to land on dinosaur. And that's the problem, imo, is that the Bible as we've received it is open to interpretation along the way simply from having come through at least three other translations.

I'm a Christian. I believe PURELY on faith alone that Jesus lived, died, and rose again to provide a pathway for me to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But there is zero tangible proof he even lived. There is zero tangible proof there is a God. There is zero proof that anything other than man wrote the Bible. Because of that I continuously question everything.

Why is it that there are Neanderthals? Or Denisovans? Or homo species predating man? For that matter, why is there a boundary of ash at a precise depth that covers the entire planet and that can mathematically be matched to the time when the Chixulub crater was made by the asteroid that wiped out the dinos? Why, if man was created on the sixth day and the heavens were created on the first day, can light from 13.5 billion years ago be detected? Wouldn't man also need to be 13.5 billion minus six days old for that to be true?

I'm a natural skeptic. I also allow for there being things I cannot and do not know. I've heard that voice in my head that is not me that assures me I am on the right or wrong path. I've done lots of other things that allow me to relax into the belief that there is a God, however it's purely belief and faith. There is no proof.

Being learned in the Bible to a much greater degree than anyone else on this board, I'd expect that you'd proffer your knowledge about it when people ask. Unless you're just one of "those" Christians.

So, again, please explain to me what God says about other species of humanoids in His book.

Another point I'd like to posit - if God is perfect and never messes up why would He ever have needed to wipe the Earth clean of everything and start over again? Why would there ever need to be a Lucifer? Why evil if it is anathema to God? Those are rhetorical questions but I'm using them to ask you how can God be perfect if those things happened and/or exist?



You can't have "faith" in Jesus AND question if any of its even real my man, those two things are a TOTAL CONTRADICTION.

Your own words prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you do NOT believe in Jesus as your Lord and savoir. If you had spent any time reading the bible (You so CLEARLY have not) you would have know its impossible to have faith and salvation in Christ and question and doubt everything about it.

You can feign 1000 levels of outrage and offense over that, but the fact is its Christianity 101. If you would simply open the NT and read it for yourself you would know this. You have created your own definition of faith, one that allows you to say you are a believer, but doubt everything, claim there is zero proof at all, live your life any way you see fit, and relentless troll and attack anyone who dares share the word of God or biblical doctrine. You even take it a step further and openly question God, question His abilities, question His intentions even to the point of mocking Him.

In short, you are not a Christian at all, you are a person who simply wants to pretend to be a Christian because you think it will enhance your arguments and attacks on Christianity and the bible by claiming to be one as you relentlessly attack and mock it with gleeful intensity. YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE. As Christ said, we will know you by your fruits.

Your arguments about Behemoth and animal are about as laughable as it gets and perfectly illustrate my point. Its changes NOTHING if you use the word Behemoth or animal, because we are talking about a giant animal that the text gives a full chapter of details on its size, shape, feeding habits and everything else. Whether you use the word behemoth or animal have no bearing on anything and changes NOTHING about the chapter on any level at all.

The text was CLEARLY designed in such a manner to remove such issues and get the key doctrines across even through translation.

You have yet to put forth a single argument or example that disproves that fact, and the obvious truth is you can't. You wouldn't even know where to look in the first place.

An no, I am not changing the subject to cavemen just so you can run and hide from your "translation" arguments. There is a ton of info on the net about how cave men and other "species" of early man fit into the 6000 year biblical framework. You can google them and research them yourself.

What I want from you are concrete examples where translations in the KJB radically changed Christian doctrines or Christianity. If you can't show that then your arguments about translation making the bible meaningless are totally debunked by your lack of evidence.

Sigh.

Acts 17:11
Habakkuk - pretty much anything

I have faith. I believe. However, I'm asking you for reference to understand these things. I haven't attacked you nor have I mocked God.

You've just shown yourself to be the worst kind of Christian, my man. One that attacks another when that other questions things does not follow the edicts of Christ. Did he attack Thomas or did he show him the way?

Shame on you.
04-06-2019 09:06 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #43
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-06-2019 09:06 PM)king king Wrote:  Sigh.

Acts 17:11
Habakkuk - pretty much anything

I have faith. I believe. However, I'm asking you for reference to understand these things. I haven't attacked you nor have I mocked God.

You've just shown yourself to be the worst kind of Christian, my man. One that attacks another when that other questions things does not follow the edicts of Christ. Did he attack Thomas or did he show him the way?

Shame on you.



If I'm a terrible Christian for pointing out Scripture and your blatantly obvious contraction of it then everyone in the NT is the "worst king of Christian" including Jesus, Peter, John, James and Paul. Shame on on us all. 01-wingedeagle

You continuously attack and mock God, the Bible, the facts, the evidence, the prophets, sound doctrines, and you do this as relentlessly as anyone on this sight as of late. Your own words speak very clearly.

Its totally ironic you would point to Acts 17:11, a verse that clearly teaches Christians should revere Gods Word and deeply study it to PROVE our faith and not just base our faith on "feelings" and our own imagination, because feelings can dramatically change throughout or lives. The Bereans diligently searched the scriptures to PROVE the things they heard were true. Least they fall deception or false doctrine.

2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Hebrews 4:12

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. (Is 40:8)


You obviously can't bring forth any tangible evidence, and you are just trying to get out of the conversation as fast as you can now. The Bible CLEARLY and dramatically contradicts your claims here. You can't back up your claims with any examples or evidence at all.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019 10:31 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-06-2019 09:20 PM
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king king Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-06-2019 09:20 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(04-06-2019 09:06 PM)king king Wrote:  Sigh.

Acts 17:11
Habakkuk - pretty much anything

I have faith. I believe. However, I'm asking you for reference to understand these things. I haven't attacked you nor have I mocked God.

You've just shown yourself to be the worst kind of Christian, my man. One that attacks another when that other questions things does not follow the edicts of Christ. Did he attack Thomas or did he show him the way?

Shame on you.



If I'm a terrible Christian for pointing out Scripture and your blatantly obvious contraction of it then everyone in the NT is the "worst king of Christian" including Jesus, Peter, John, James and Paul. Shame on on us all. 01-wingedeagle

You continuously attack and mock God, the Bible, the facts, the evidence, the prophets, sound doctrines, and you do this as relentlessly as anyone on this sight as of late. Your own words speak very clearly.

Its totally ironic you would point to Acts 17:11, a verse that clearly teaches Christians should revere Gods Word and deeply study it to PROVE our faith and not just base our faith on "feelings" and our own imagination, because feelings can dramatically change throughout or lives. The Bereans diligently searched the scriptures to PROVE the things they heard were true. Least they fall deception or false doctrine.

2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Hebrews 4:12

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”


You obviously can't bring forth any tangible evidence, and you are just trying to get out of the conversation as fast as you can now. The Bible CLEARLY and dramatically contradicts your claims here. You can't back up your claims with any examples or evidence at all.

Your own example in 2 Timothy says for reproof and correction.

How do you prove something other than by questioning it?

I've looked online and the explanation for other hominid species is that they predated Adam. However, that's not what Genesis says. Please teach me. I've asked for this and it's affected you SO bad that you've shown yourself to be a bad Christian by trying to chastise me for looking at what the world contains in it and asking how I can reconcile it against what the Bible says.

Well done, Eric
04-06-2019 10:29 PM
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Post: #45
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
Also, before that last post, you'd shown zip thru scripture. Nothing. Your example of the beast c u m behemoth becomes a dinosaur only thru mental gymnastics.
04-06-2019 10:30 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #46
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-06-2019 10:30 PM)king king Wrote:  Also, before that last post, you'd shown zip thru scripture. Nothing. Your example of the beast c u m behemoth becomes a dinosaur only thru mental gymnastics.


Is this a joke? Who cares if you think its a dinosaur or not? Its believed to be a dino because of the details of its description, not because of the word behemoth. You seriously thought its was because of the word behemoth? Are you kidding me?

You are simply trying to run away from your claims about the bible not being able to be properly translated from Greek or Hebrew.

You can't bring forth any evidence to back up your claims at all.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019 11:09 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-06-2019 10:38 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #47
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-06-2019 10:29 PM)king king Wrote:  Your own example in 2 Timothy says for reproof and correction.

How do you prove something other than by questioning it?

I've looked online and the explanation for other hominid species is that they predated Adam. However, that's not what Genesis says. Please teach me. I've asked for this and it's affected you SO bad that you've shown yourself to be a bad Christian by trying to chastise me for looking at what the world contains in it and asking how I can reconcile it against what the Bible says.

Well done, Eric



You are talking in circles now and continue to totally contradicting yourself.

How are you going to prove, correct, have any evidence or any basis for anything if you spend all your time mocking and attacking the bible, the evidence, the prophets, all of the things the bible teaches?

You have relentlessly argued and challenged that the bible can't be trusted, and can't be translated, yet you point to a verse like Acts 17:11 that specifically teaches Christians to study their bible to so they will KNOW Christ is our Savior, and not just blindly believe whatever they hear. There are false prophets and false doctrines everywhere, even in Christ time. Without the Bible, you have no ability to seek the truth on any level.

How do you KNOW Christ is your Savior and the Son of God? How are you going to believe and trust in something with all your heart and soul of you don't even know if it true and not and deeply question whether any if it is even real?

Those two positions are a total contradiction. You can't have faith in Jesus, and yet deeply question and doubt He or the Gospel is even real. That is NOT faith, and that is NOT salvation and the bible is very clear about this.

As Jesus, said, many will come to Him on that day and claim they believed in Him, but He will tell them "I NEVER knew you, depart from Me you workers of iniquity".
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019 11:45 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-06-2019 10:50 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #48
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
Bring forth your evidence king, prove to us the bible can't be translated and can't be trusted because of translation issues. Give us specific examples where key Doctrines are lost through translation.

As I keep telling you, you CAN'T. These things are repeated over and over again in book after book in different contexts and different words. The book is clearly written and designed to get around translation issues.

You need to stop making these blind assumptions about it and actually begin to study these things for yourself.
04-06-2019 11:04 PM
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Post: #49
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
I've not once argued it can't be translated.

What I have done is to ask you how you can believe it is a literal translation when you have zero basis upon which to believe this other than someone ELSE told you that this word means this or that phrase means that. You take it on faith that a word or phrase is such.

For example, if I type, я тебя не верю, you can only go by what I tell you that means. Or, in the modern age, you can put that into Google and it'll tell you what it means. However, as you don't actually speak the language you really have no clue if it's what I tell you it is, or Google, or even if I tell you it's x that it's really x. You just don't have the context to discern that yourself. Go and spend time with people that speak the language and learn it for yourself and you'll glean an understanding.

Same goes with the Bible.

It started out Hebrew. Then that was translated to ancient Greek. Then to Latin. There to French and Spanish. English came around the 12th century after the Norman conquest of England when that language mixed with Anglo Saxon.

You trying to tell me the literal translation has remained since the original? BS.

For example, the word sheol. When translated into Greek it becomes Hades, but Hades has an entirely different meaning in Greek than does Sheol in Hebrew. So it became Hell in our interpretation but when studied in the original Hebrew it doesn't really mean Hell in the interpretation as given in English. That's because it came THRU the Greek and it's own interpretation.

You are narrow minded in the extreme if you believe that one culture's ways don't affect to a great deal the meanings and interpretation of the words it is trying to comprehend in its own sphere of influence but which come from a different language and culture altogether. You can say all you want that there is nothing lost but anyone with a brain can see that this is untrue.

Do you speak ANY other languages? If not, you have zero basis to claim that this isn't so. You're not informed here.

And the reality is, far beneath the scientist that tests his hypothesis, you believe, and deride anyone that doesn't, based on faith ALONE these things. You've danced around my questions and refused to answer how your idea of God PROVES these things while omitting that science has proven vastly more than anyone has with religion.

I've stated my faith here. You've sought to tear it down. I believe because I CHOOSE to believe. That's the essence of faith. I believe despite everything telling me otherwise that I shouldn't. I still profess my belief. I choose to believe in Christ and His resurrection even though everything in me that observes the natural world disagrees with the timeline as set forth in the Bible. The evidence, based on the measurable world around us all, says there is zero evidence to believe the world is 6000 years old in the context of how long man has been here. There are even proto humans, whose very existence dares God's holy book to be wrong, and yet I still choose to believe. I'm human enough to admit it's a struggle and that I wrestle (Habakkuk being led by the nose) with it daily. But when I do you go on the attack.

I rebuke you and all you stand for. Shame.
04-07-2019 02:24 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #50
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 02:24 AM)king king Wrote:  I've not once argued it can't be translated.

What I have done is to ask you how you can believe it is a literal translation when you have zero basis upon which to believe this other than someone ELSE told you that this word means this or that phrase means that. You take it on faith that a word or phrase is such.

For example, if I type, я тебя не верю, you can only go by what I tell you that means. Or, in the modern age, you can put that into Google and it'll tell you what it means. However, as you don't actually speak the language you really have no clue if it's what I tell you it is, or Google, or even if I tell you it's x that it's really x. You just don't have the context to discern that yourself. Go and spend time with people that speak the language and learn it for yourself and you'll glean an understanding.


You are creating a totally hypothetical fantasy argument, and you know you are.

You are not giving a single tangible example of a doctrine or any key part of the bible that was "lost" in translation, you have been challenged to over and over again and you can't come up with one single example. Since you can't come up with a single example to back up your assertions, so you instead retreat to a hypothetical fantasy scenario. The Greek langue is not a lost language, its been around and is still in use today. Its also one of the most well documented and understood languages from antiquity even into modern times.

You have no argument here, all you have is a hypothetical fantasy scenario that is so far in the ethos of your imagination that you can't find one single real life example to apply it to your argument. (NO, the Sheol/Hades argument will not remotely work, both words mean "the place the dead go" in both languages, and included both those in hell and those in paradise, Christ removed those in paradise and took them to heaven after the Resurrection)

If you can't give some hard core REAL LIFE examples of how key details and doctrines were lost in translation of the Bible, then you have no argument.

All you have is a fantasy hypothesis with zero evidence at all.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 04:52 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-07-2019 03:42 AM
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Post: #51
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 02:24 AM)king king Wrote:  It started out Hebrew. Then that was translated to ancient Greek. Then to Latin. There to French and Spanish. English came around the 12th century after the Norman conquest of England when that language mixed with Anglo Saxon.

You trying to tell me the literal translation has remained since the original? BS.



My dear confused friend, we have full copies of the entire bible in its original languages. We have the entire OT in Hebrew and we have the entire NT in its original Greek. Full copies and manuscripts of each book going back nearly 2000 years (over 2000 years on the OT). Not manuscripts translated back into Hebrew and Greek, we are talking about actual 2000 year old copies written in their original languages.

As I have already illustrated, anyone call pull up and read the entire bible and compare it word for word with the original Hebrew or original Greek languages from 2000 years ago. It has nothing to do with having to trace it back through multiple languages.

You really need to give it a rest, this is a debate you can't win and the facts and truth are not on your side. Its obvious you have never really investigated these thing at all and are just making up your arguments on the fly as you go.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 04:58 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-07-2019 03:55 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #52
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 02:24 AM)king king Wrote:  I've stated my faith here. You've sought to tear it down. I believe because I CHOOSE to believe. That's the essence of faith. I believe despite everything telling me otherwise that I shouldn't. I still profess my belief. I choose to believe in Christ and His resurrection even though everything in me that observes the natural world disagrees with the timeline as set forth in the Bible. The evidence, based on the measurable world around us all, says there is zero evidence to believe the world is 6000 years old in the context of how long man has been here. There are even proto humans, whose very existence dares God's holy book to be wrong, and yet I still choose to believe. I'm human enough to admit it's a struggle and that I wrestle (Habakkuk being led by the nose) with it daily. But when I do you go on the attack.

I rebuke you and all you stand for. Shame.



If there is one thing you love to do in these discussions, its play the victim role and cry poor me, "you are being mean to me Eric when you quote the bible and show contradictions between what I say and what it says".

Its you yourself who says over and over again that you have serious doubts about God, Jesus and the bible, and don't really know if any of its real or not. It you who so vehemently argue there is no evidence, no way to know and constantly attack the validity of the Bible and Christianity. You spend ALL your time tearing the bible and Christianity down, and don't spend even 3 seconds building it up or sharing it with anyone.

The NT teaches VERY CLEARLY what faith is, and faith is NOT seriously doubting of Christ and the Gospel is real, Faith is NOT tearing down and attacking the foundations and validity of scripture and the Gospel.

The book of James says quite clearly that the doubting, double minded man need not even bother wasting God's time, that God knows the double mindedness and doubt of his heart, and as Christ said HE will spew such people out of His mouth. The book of Romans teaches quite clearly what faith is, and its believing without doubt, without double mindedness, being FULL CONVINCED in your heart.

I realize this angers you, and you feel personally attacked over me pointing these things. But the plain fact of the matter is this is what the bible teaches. This is what faith is, and without it you have no salvation. One of the central points of being a Christian is telling others the truth, even when its a truth they don't want to hear. When the Apostles spread the gospel and taught what true faith and salvation was, both Jews and Gentiles everywhere hated them and wanted to kill them. If you are scared of offending someone with the bible, or afraid people will attack or hate you for sharing what it says, then you have no need to bother being a Christian.

As Christ said, we will know them by their fruits. Your fruits are all about tearing down the gospel, tearing down the bible, tearing down and attacking the truth, tearing down and attacking the facts and evidence, trying to convince people that we have no evidence and no way to know, and that they should not look to the bible or consider Gods Word to be accurate or reliable.

Your own words and actions speaks for themselves.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 04:39 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-07-2019 04:18 AM
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king king Offline
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Post: #53
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
Listen Eric, here's the point you're making for me: you, as an English speaking person in the 21st century have no way of knowing what those words as originally recorded actually mean OTHER THAN to accept OTHER PEOPLE'S translations as fact. You can use a web site that tells you what the original word means but you're still taking it on faith that the English version you're reading has maintained the meaning throughout the different translations. And yes, even with the original in the original Hebrew or Greek (translated from Aramaic to Ancient Greek to Latin to English) it is still impossible for YOU to know for certain that the translation of a word is what the author meant it as. You cannot know because the authors aren't there to tell you, the author's words have been translated from the original language into other languages and then to yours, AND you still have to accept that the translation you're getting is what it says it is based on others' interpretation.

Now, to me, that sounds like when I accept that through rigorous testing a scientist says there is a layer of ash laid down over the entire world that, through examination and methods of testing that is both documented and verifiably tested and whose results can also be reliably reproduced, shows that an asteroid hit the planet 66 million years ago.

That sounds like the same kind of acceptance it takes for me to believe when a skull is dug up of a species that resembles man so much, but isn't man, and whose remains include various tools and information that can be gleaned by looking at all of the residual stuff that was left behind when they died, that this humanoid species was here before men ever walked the planet.

Your faith in the words as they've been translated meaning this or that comes about because someone ELSE had some level of expertise that allowed them to translate it from x to x. Period. You didn't speak the original. No one alive has ever heard Aramaic in its original form. It's a definite FACT that ancient Greek and modern Greek are related but that all syntax is different. This means that it is a FACT that if an ancient Greek speaker were to speak to a modern Greek one, the ancient Greek would be using words the modern one would understand individually but the sentences would not make a lot of sense.

So, again, you're accepting that these things are what they say they are exactly as intended when the truth is that without having been translated a few times already to other languages you'd be entirely lost if trying to read the original. There's even a science behind interpretation. It's called hermeneutics. If there was nothing lost in translation why the need for a whole science to try to interpret the translations?

The same goes for Hebrew. Oh wow here is a link

In fact, since I know neither (assuming you dont speak modern Hebrew) I have to take what these other people say at face value.

I've given a real world comparison in that I DO speak another language fluently. I read it. I write it. And there are still times in it where I realize that something said like x actually meant x. Or that there are words for which there just is no translation. That's my own experience with languages informing me on how all of them work. Or, like the Bible says, God confused the people and their languages and made it to where no one could understand the other. Genesis 11:8,9 clearly says this.

So, like I've beleaguered to say over and over, you're accepting of some other person's/peoples' translations but refuse to believe other people when when they also try to better understand this creation that was given to man that includes a lot of questions about what's in it as the evidence as tested doesn't seem to line up very well with the accepted translated meanings of things in the Bible.

I've been open about being a natural skeptic and that in no way makes me some bad Christian. I accept and believe everything I need to to lay my head quietly at night. I try to square what I'm being told (via translated text) in the Bible with the evidence that shows itself all over the world that there are things that don't line up with the idea that man is the only bipedal humanoid to have ever been created or to have walked the planet or that the age of the dinosaurs doesn't massively skew the age of the planet and our timeline in it, or even the age of the universe as it relates to man. If light is an observable marker, and it can be traced to stars that shined 13.5 billion years ago, then in Genesis where we were created six days after light, we as men should be 13.5 billion years minus six days old. Are you telling me that there are no stars that shined 13.5 billion years ago? According to you, that light should be ~6000 years plus six days old. And that's just not true because we can accurately measure things that are out there shining way beyond 6000 light years right NOW.

You don't like my logic and so you've gone on the offensive throughout our entire interaction seeking to beat me up with your understanding of the words as they've been translated. And in doing so, you've shown yourself to be the kind of Christian that puts being right over taking the time to try to educate someone on the basis of those beliefs.

I've asked, well before you ever asked for anything, for an explanation of why you claim man is 6k years old but that the planet is much older but how can that be when the earth and light and all that stuff should only be a few days older based on the literal words of Genesis. You can't even resolve the basic broken logic of your own assertion when asked simply and instead start going off and latching on to my humble admission that I have trouble with believing when faced with all the evidence that the world contains that flies in the face of what the Bible says in Genesis. Owl also tried to put forth this same argument and you levied some accusations at him as well.

If you're going to be the board "expert" on all things Christianity, maybe try not being a flagrant turd when you try to explain to people that butt up against you for the inconsistencies that exist between the Bible and the things we find in the world. God made both, right?

Can we not seek to understand Him better by examining both? Doesn't an examination of these things make us naturally have questions about the [apparent] incongruent nature that splits what we see and test to learn more about and what we read and try to understand better?

Still waiting on Eric to show me biblical evidence for dinos and people living together and for anything that explains how there are other hominid species. Or even to explain how if God doesn't mess up then why the need to wipe almost everyone and everything from the face of the Earth and start over again. And to do so without trying to attack the person bringing the question to him because he is the board authority on these things.

In the end, I submitted and chose to believe there are things I just don't or can't understand. I chose to accept Christ on faith. That doesn't mean I don't also wrestle with the nature of the way I was made. And that's ok. I'm sure He will understand when it's time to understand. And if not, that's ok too. Nothing I can do about it other than to say that I truly tried to make sense of it all, and barring that I chalk it up to I just don't get it. And that's ok too.

That's MY walk. How dare you seek to tear me down as not Christian enough for YOU. That's shameful, but that's YOUR walk. I'm over here drinking my coffee peaceful in my own heart about who I am.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 08:27 AM by king king.)
04-07-2019 08:20 AM
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Post: #54
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
You can write and entire novel and post it here king, unless you can give some specific examples of where key doctrines and teachings in the bible were lost due to translation from Greek to English, you have no point.

You have been challenged over and over and over again to provide some actual examples and evidence, and you have failed to do so one single time.

Its safe to say that your point is moot and you know it is.

No wonder you want to change the subject to a dozen other things now. You know full well by now you can't back up your assertions and aren't even going to try.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 09:19 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-07-2019 08:53 AM
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Post: #55
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
I mentioned all those other things BEFORE you ever asked for any kind of proof, Eric.

Fact is YOU were challenged to provide evidence for why there are Neanderthals, other hominids, and light from distant stars. You claim man is 6000 years old and the Earth is much older but in the same breath say men were created six days after the universe. So you own argument displays a giant hole. One that you've yet to fill.

Still waiting.
04-07-2019 09:53 AM
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Post: #56
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 08:20 AM)king king Wrote:  That's MY walk. How dare you seek to tear me down as not Christian enough for YOU. That's shameful, but that's YOUR walk. I'm over here drinking my coffee peaceful in my own heart about who I am.


My friend the simple fact is being "at peace" with yourself is not biblical salvation or Christianity. You can tell yourself whatever you want to believe and say you are comfortable with it in your heart, but that is not salvation and that is not how a person is saved.

I very sorry that you feel so attacked and damaged and hurt by my posts, but all I have done is share with you what the bible teaches on salvation and faith. All I have done is point out the tremendous contradictions between what you claim and what the bible says on these things. You issue is not with me, you issue is with what the bible teaches and says. Pretty much all lost people are offended and angered by what the bible says, and many people who self identity as a Christian are also offended and angered by what the bible says. The Bible itself repeatedly warns us that this is the reaction most people will have to it. Even those sitting in the churches. I would remind you of Hebrew 4:12 again that says this very thing.
04-07-2019 09:54 AM
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Post: #57
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 09:53 AM)king king Wrote:  I mentioned all those other things BEFORE you ever asked for any kind of proof, Eric.

Fact is YOU were challenged to provide evidence for why there are Neanderthals, other hominids, and light from distant stars. You claim man is 6000 years old and the Earth is much older but in the same breath say men were created six days after the universe. So you own argument displays a giant hole. One that you've yet to fill.

Still waiting.



Why don't you just drop the charade and fess up that you can't back up your assertions with any examples?

Its painfully obvious to you and anyone else reading this by now that you can't, and you are desperately trying to cover that up and change the subject.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 09:59 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-07-2019 09:58 AM
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Post: #58
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
And just because I've been on my cell phone for all of these interactions, I've now switched to my computer so I can refute your claims of translations:

This is from Christianity Today International

Why do all the Bibles call Him LORD and not YHVH?

Whole verses are missing from Mark and Matthew in the originals...part 3 of article

Part 4 of that same article goes into further detail on specific words that are mistranslated. Lo, and behold there's even an article about the term She'ol.

Luke 23:43 and the comma are also mentioned in this article. There were no punctuation marks in the original, so the placement of that comma defines an entire doctrine such that the question remains, do we go to Heaven as soon as we die or was Jesus just telling him that day that he would go with Him to Heaven?

Genesis 1 in the original Hebrew uses the word elohim for god. Elohim was a generic term used to describe any god. Then in Genesis 2 the author uses the proper name of YHWH (Yahweh). Your own source shows this to be true right here So, why the apparent difference? Was the god (elohim) of Genesis 1 not the same exact God (YHWH) of Genesis 2?

Then there's the documentary hypothesis, the supplementary hypothesis, and the fragmentary hypothesis. Biblical scholars that study the Torah cant even agree on how it was formed. One author? Many? Oral stories then written down? Written stories cobbled together?

I'll wait for your reply.
04-07-2019 10:34 AM
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Post: #59
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 09:58 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(04-07-2019 09:53 AM)king king Wrote:  I mentioned all those other things BEFORE you ever asked for any kind of proof, Eric.

Fact is YOU were challenged to provide evidence for why there are Neanderthals, other hominids, and light from distant stars. You claim man is 6000 years old and the Earth is much older but in the same breath say men were created six days after the universe. So you own argument displays a giant hole. One that you've yet to fill.

Still waiting.



Why don't you just drop the charade and fess up that you can't back up your assertions with any examples?

Its painfully obvious to you and anyone else reading this by now that you can't, and you are desperately trying to cover that up and change the subject.

If it's so painfully obvious why hasn't anyone else come to your defense and commented on how stupid I am or how my argument is baseless?

Still waiting for your explanation on that big hole in your story.
04-07-2019 10:36 AM
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Post: #60
RE: 66 million ye armageddon graveyard found in ND
(04-07-2019 10:34 AM)king king Wrote:  And just because I've been on my cell phone for all of these interactions, I've now switched to my computer so I can refute your claims of translations:

This is from Christianity Today International

Why do all the Bibles call Him LORD and not YHVH?

Whole verses are missing from Mark and Matthew in the originals...part 3 of article

Part 4 of that same article goes into further detail on specific words that are mistranslated. Lo, and behold there's even an article about the term She'ol.

Luke 23:43 and the comma are also mentioned in this article. There were no punctuation marks in the original, so the placement of that comma defines an entire doctrine such that the question remains, do we go to Heaven as soon as we die or was Jesus just telling him that day that he would go with Him to Heaven?

Genesis 1 in the original Hebrew uses the word elohim for god. Elohim was a generic term used to describe any god. Then in Genesis 2 the author uses the proper name of YHWH (Yahweh). Your own source shows this to be true right here So, why the apparent difference? Was the god (elohim) of Genesis 1 not the same exact God (YHWH) of Genesis 2?

Then there's the documentary hypothesis, the supplementary hypothesis, and the fragmentary hypothesis. Biblical scholars that study the Torah cant even agree on how it was formed. One author? Many? Oral stories then written down? Written stories cobbled together?

I'll wait for your reply.


Well frankly I looked at and read all your links and didn't see one single change to a key NT doctrine. Even the Luke 23:43 point about when we go to heaven is easily explained away by a whole bunch of other NT scriptures in great detail. The NT is very clear about when we die in the flesh, our spirit goes to heaven instantly and is repeated in multiple verses (2 Cor 5:8 for example).

That is a perfect example of the point I have repeated to you from the beginning here. Even if you get anal about any one verse and call its translation into question, its going to be backed up by multiple other verses that remove all doubt about the one verse you are trying to question. The Bible is purposely written in this way to debunk nearly all of the "translation" arguments people like you use to devalue and question the bible and brainwash others to devalue and question it as Gods word.

Pretty much everything else your links spoke of are things first year bible students know. Its well known God's name is not "god" and that word is just a vague English word for Him. Its well known that the Hebrew used the word Elohim, or more specifically YWHW as His actual name. This is not new information for any serious bible student, though it sounds like it is brand new information for you so I'm gland you reading these things.

This is exactly why God has preserved the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts for us 2000 years later. When we examine and study the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts we learn even more and expand our understanding even more. These thing do not change or alter Key doctrines or key Christian teaching, but they give us an ability to study the Scriptures on an even more advanced "masters" level by examining them in their original languages.

I can read the KJV and learn who God is, what He did, what the evidence of Christ is as the Son of God, what evidence there is as to WHY I should believe in Jesus, and exactly what salvation and faith are in Jesus. Everything I need to know to have salvation and understand the Gospel and NT doctrines are right there in the KJB.

But when I begin to study the original Hebrew, I expand my biblical education even more. I learn the use of the word Elohim, and how that is PLURAL and shows the trinity, I learn the actual name of God, I learn the actual name of Jesus in Hebrew. I learn the connections between Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua and all those names and translation, and so many more things I could go into.

God blesses us with both a tremendous translation in our own language, AND gifted us with the original Hebrew and Greek for cross study and further understanding 2000 years after Christ
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 02:05 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
04-07-2019 11:32 AM
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