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Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
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TribePride91 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
A ton of money has been raised in the last few years. Our leadership is relatively new and may have underestimated the alumni response. As my earlier eulogy indicates, I don't like the choice. But, all of us have begged for a commitment to the program. It appears we have it. Absent a Jimmy Chitwood moment, we can only look forward. Our giving dwarfs JMU who is much larger.
The best case scenario for 2020 is the Tribe stays together, wins, and immediately thanks Coach Shaver during the celebration. Anything less, including poachers and defections would be a disaster.
Coach certainly could have used the additional resources. Also, perhaps more of the goodwill he has gotten in the last 36 hours.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2019 07:39 PM by TribePride91.)
03-14-2019 07:37 PM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
This doesn't appear like a great move to me. Shaver is Tribe basketball. The Tribe has a great offense normally with good kids. The knock would be defense if you want to win the CAA on most years. Great teams also normally have that 1 guard that can get theirs at the end of a clock and be able to get stops so that would be the what stands out if you're really looking at winning the whole thing.

They've had long term success so that's hard to overlook. Again, the offense is great. Can the Tribe get a man that can assemble a team that gets stops and still have a good offense? Can they do better? Shaver got the guys that's here now and for next year that appear to have a real shot. I've been around for a while and the Tribe was nothing before him. We shall see?
03-14-2019 09:59 PM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-14-2019 07:37 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  A ton of money has been raised in the last few years. Our leadership is relatively new and may have underestimated the alumni response. As my earlier eulogy indicates, I don't like the choice. But, all of us have begged for a commitment to the program. It appears we have it. Absent a Jimmy Chitwood moment, we can only look forward. Our giving dwarfs JMU who is much larger.
The best case scenario for 2020 is the Tribe stays together, wins, and immediately thanks Coach Shaver during the celebration. Anything less, including poachers and defections would be a disaster.
Coach certainly could have used the additional resources. Also, perhaps more of the goodwill he has gotten in the last 36 hours.

Any player there now that is worthy of a look by a P5 school is now being recruited and to think otherwise is just not how it works these days. It might not be a mass exodus but if you lose the best current player and the top recruit it pretty much means you are screwed. UNCA is a mid that recruited players under the radar only to have then recruited by P5's while still on the team with the same coach. This looks like a terrible move and could mean years of losing.
03-15-2019 08:43 AM
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getmhawks Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 08:43 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 07:37 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  A ton of money has been raised in the last few years. Our leadership is relatively new and may have underestimated the alumni response. As my earlier eulogy indicates, I don't like the choice. But, all of us have begged for a commitment to the program. It appears we have it. Absent a Jimmy Chitwood moment, we can only look forward. Our giving dwarfs JMU who is much larger.
The best case scenario for 2020 is the Tribe stays together, wins, and immediately thanks Coach Shaver during the celebration. Anything less, including poachers and defections would be a disaster.
Coach certainly could have used the additional resources. Also, perhaps more of the goodwill he has gotten in the last 36 hours.

Any player there now that is worthy of a look by a P5 school is now being recruited and to think otherwise is just not how it works these days. It might not be a mass exodus but if you lose the best current player and the top recruit it pretty much means you are screwed. UNCA is a mid that recruited players under the radar only to have then recruited by P5's while still on the team with the same coach. This looks like a terrible move and could mean years of losing.


Correct. The administration made their bed and now have to lie in it. They must attract a coach that knows he has to out perform Tony Shaver and get to the tournament all while most likely having his roster wiped clean of its top talent and likely losing most of the recruits. The coach is at a major disadvantage and it will take a candidate with an extremely close connection to the adminstration or a high risk candidate to take on the job.

We saw after the Brownell ordeal how hard it was to hire a coach. We ended up with Benny Moss man. What a train wreck. C.B. isn't Benny but he had his hands tied and is still fighting his way out of the mess we left him by not hiring someone on Kevin's staff. Not trying to beat a dead horse but this has the potential to be a very Brownell like decision for W&M. I hope it doesn't turn out that way. Sounds like the AD has an ego. AD's with egos usually don't bode well for a program.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 09:03 AM by getmhawks.)
03-15-2019 09:02 AM
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getmhawks Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
This conference is certainly on the down trend. This firing will likely push us further down. If we have the chance to jump out we need to.
03-15-2019 09:06 AM
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Gary Miller Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 09:02 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 08:43 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 07:37 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  A ton of money has been raised in the last few years. Our leadership is relatively new and may have underestimated the alumni response. As my earlier eulogy indicates, I don't like the choice. But, all of us have begged for a commitment to the program. It appears we have it. Absent a Jimmy Chitwood moment, we can only look forward. Our giving dwarfs JMU who is much larger.
The best case scenario for 2020 is the Tribe stays together, wins, and immediately thanks Coach Shaver during the celebration. Anything less, including poachers and defections would be a disaster.
Coach certainly could have used the additional resources. Also, perhaps more of the goodwill he has gotten in the last 36 hours.

Any player there now that is worthy of a look by a P5 school is now being recruited and to think otherwise is just not how it works these days. It might not be a mass exodus but if you lose the best current player and the top recruit it pretty much means you are screwed. UNCA is a mid that recruited players under the radar only to have then recruited by P5's while still on the team with the same coach. This looks like a terrible move and could mean years of losing.


Correct. The administration made their bed and now have to lie in it. They must attract a coach that knows he has to out perform Tony Shaver and get to the tournament all while most likely having his roster wiped clean of its top talent and likely losing most of the recruits. The coach is at a major disadvantage and it will take a candidate with an extremely close connection to the adminstration or a high risk candidate to take on the job.

We saw after the Brownell ordeal how hard it was to hire a coach. We ended up with Benny Moss man. What a train wreck. C.B. isn't Benny but he had his hands tied and is still fighting his way out of the mess we left him by not hiring someone on Kevin's staff. Not trying to beat a dead horse but this has the potential to be a very Brownell like decision for W&M. I hope it doesn't turn out that way. Sounds like the AD has an ego. AD's with egos usually don't bode well for a program.

Spot On. Couldn't agree with this more.
03-15-2019 09:54 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 09:02 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  The coach is at a major disadvantage and it will take a candidate with an extremely close connection to the adminstration or a high risk candidate to take on the job.

This always depends on who the coach is to whether there will be much fallout. A coach being fired is different than a coach moving to a different level. When a coach moves, its easy to poach because they want to play for that coach. When a coach is fired and has no job its a tougher choice whether to stay or go elsewhere. That becomes purely based on where they are in their career, both academically and athletically, as well as the style of play of the new coach. Unless they hire a coach that does not use motion with lots of cutting and uses the opposite, I would actually figure most of their players will return, incoming freshman notwithstanding.

Also the rumors are mostly geared towards JTIII, so if that is true based on his connections with their AD, I would venture to guess they won't lose many players.
03-15-2019 10:04 AM
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Gary Miller Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 10:04 AM)dan10 Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 09:02 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  The coach is at a major disadvantage and it will take a candidate with an extremely close connection to the adminstration or a high risk candidate to take on the job.

This always depends on who the coach is to whether there will be much fallout. A coach being fired is different than a coach moving to a different level. When a coach moves, its easy to poach because they want to play for that coach. When a coach is fired and has no job its a tougher choice whether to stay or go elsewhere. That becomes purely based on where they are in their career, both academically and athletically, as well as the style of play of the new coach. Unless they hire a coach that does not use motion with lots of cutting and uses the opposite, I would actually figure most of their players will return, incoming freshman notwithstanding.

Also the rumors are mostly geared towards JTIII, so if that is true based on his connections with their AD, I would venture to guess they won't lose many players.

I'm not buying the JTIII rumors... He might have recommended someone, but I'd be surprised if he was the hire.
03-15-2019 10:32 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
I am not either, but they seem to be ramping up. My point was still in the first paragraph. Their situation and yours with Keatts really werent that close to the same. For W&M the style of their next coach will have quite the influence on whether players stay or go knowing their coach won't be coaching somewhere else.
03-15-2019 11:02 AM
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getmhawks Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:02 AM)dan10 Wrote:  I am not either, but they seem to be ramping up. My point was still in the first paragraph. Their situation and yours with Keatts really werent that close to the same. For W&M the style of their next coach will have quite the influence on whether players stay or go knowing their coach won't be coaching somewhere else.

We've experienced it all here. Keatts scenario, Jerry scenario, Brownell scenario, Buzz scenario, Benny scenario. The only two transtions where we ended up "ok" were when Brownell transitioned into HC after Jerry's departure and when we fired Buzz to hire Keatts. Every other hiring process and transition was sloppy at best.

If I'm a William and Mary fan I have to think the worst right now. The writing is on the wall and any coach with something to lose isn't walking into this scenario right now. This could be a decade plus long disaster. I hope it's not.

EDIT: Keatts only took one of our players, for the record. We lost every single one of our recruits to an array of schools.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 11:26 AM by getmhawks.)
03-15-2019 11:23 AM
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getmhawks Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
Dan - You don't think Tony Shaver will have a job next year? Are you kidding me? He'd be a slam dunk hire for at least 100 programs in D1 basketball.
03-15-2019 11:32 AM
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Gary Miller Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:32 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  Dan - You don't think Tony Shaver will have a job next year? Are you kidding me? He'd be a slam dunk hire for at least 100 programs in D1 basketball.

He's 65 and getting another job will affect how much of his buyout he gets. Does he want to go somewhere and start a new program?... I don't think it's a question of whether or not he'd be a quality candidate.
03-15-2019 11:43 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Online
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Post: #73
RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:32 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  Dan - You don't think Tony Shaver will have a job next year? Are you kidding me? He'd be a slam dunk hire for at least 100 programs in D1 basketball.

It's not a bad idea to take a year off. Make an off the record agreement to coach somewhere in 2020-21. Meanwhile, he could use that year to recruit as much as he wants, as there's no recruiting restrictions for coaches who are out of the game.

Bob Huggins did that before he got to West Virginia, and it worked very well.
03-15-2019 11:45 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:43 AM)Gary Miller Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 11:32 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  Dan - You don't think Tony Shaver will have a job next year? Are you kidding me? He'd be a slam dunk hire for at least 100 programs in D1 basketball.

He's 65 and getting another job will affect how much of his buyout he gets. Does he want to go somewhere and start a new program?... I don't think it's a question of whether or not he'd be a quality candidate.

Exactly. Being 65 hurts his stock quite a bit. Along with how much it would cost him from his buyout, I would be surprised if he is a head coach in college next season. This has nothing to do with his ability.
03-15-2019 12:27 PM
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:32 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  Dan - You don't think Tony Shaver will have a job next year? Are you kidding me? He'd be a slam dunk hire for at least 100 programs in D1 basketball.

I understand where he's coming from. Shaver is 65. There may be language in that buy out that if he accepts another job the $1.7 mil decreases significantly or goes away all together. Brownell didn't have that $1.7 mil option, and he was much younger.

With that in mind, it's certainly easier but not a slam dunk that their current roster stays. The biggest factor though, is retaining recruits.
03-15-2019 12:31 PM
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getmhawks Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:45 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 11:32 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  Dan - You don't think Tony Shaver will have a job next year? Are you kidding me? He'd be a slam dunk hire for at least 100 programs in D1 basketball.

It's not a bad idea to take a year off. Make an off the record agreement to coach somewhere in 2020-21. Meanwhile, he could use that year to recruit as much as he wants, as there's no recruiting restrictions for coaches who are out of the game.

Bob Huggins did that before he got to West Virginia, and it worked very well.

Makes sense. I guess I was just thinking I'd hire him in a heart beat.
03-15-2019 12:54 PM
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Proff Online
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Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
I didn't realize Shaver was as old as 65. I thought he was younger. I can see where it might be tough to get a head coaching job but he should at least find a spot on someone's staff. Still hard to fathom his removal.

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03-15-2019 01:14 PM
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Gary Miller Offline
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 01:14 PM)Proff Wrote:  I didn't realize Shaver was as old as 65. I thought he was younger. I can see where it might be tough to get a head coaching job but he should at least find a spot on someone's staff. Still hard to fathom his removal.

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I'd bet he'd make a good analyst too. Interestingly enough, Hampden & Sydney fired their bball coach a couple of weeks ago. Shaver was the HC there for 17 years prior to getting the gig at W&M. I wonder if that job would interest him at all.
03-15-2019 01:36 PM
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 12:54 PM)getmhawks Wrote:  Makes sense. I guess I was just thinking I'd hire him in a heart beat.

I would too, 100 %. And I'd essentially be willing to make him the right hand man for Jimmy Bass too. Shaver has AD-level skills if he ever wants that role somewhere.
03-15-2019 02:08 PM
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RE: Tony Shaver out at William & Mary
(03-15-2019 11:23 AM)getmhawks Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 11:02 AM)dan10 Wrote:  I am not either, but they seem to be ramping up. My point was still in the first paragraph. Their situation and yours with Keatts really werent that close to the same. For W&M the style of their next coach will have quite the influence on whether players stay or go knowing their coach won't be coaching somewhere else.

We've experienced it all here. Keatts scenario, Jerry scenario, Brownell scenario, Buzz scenario, Benny scenario. The only two transtions where we ended up "ok" were when Brownell transitioned into HC after Jerry's departure and when we fired Buzz to hire Keatts. Every other hiring process and transition was sloppy at best.

If I'm a William and Mary fan I have to think the worst right now. The writing is on the wall and any coach with something to lose isn't walking into this scenario right now. This could be a decade plus long disaster. I hope it's not.

EDIT: Keatts only took one of our players, for the record. We lost every single one of our recruits to an array of schools.

One of those recruits was on campus, but someone dropped the ball getting his paperwork finished. So when, I think it was Kansas State kicked a player off the team, it opened a spot up. We then lost our only remaining recruit because someone else didn't do their job.
03-15-2019 05:22 PM
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