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What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #301
What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
That is a 2 year deal, so they will at least get a couple seasons in. A development league is really needed, so I hope this one sticks.


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05-06-2019 09:33 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #302
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
They’ll still need butts in the seats. Can’t imagine rent in some of those stadiums is coming cheap. Year 2 is no given. Here’s my prediction, ratings start out hot, people realize it’s just like all the others, lucky to have a year 2. Who wants to see minor league football outdoors in New York?
05-06-2019 09:52 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #303
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Quote:According to Sports Business Daily, neither ESPN nor FOX will pay a rights fee for the games, but will cover the production costs (approximately $400,000 per game)


https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2019/05...c-fox-fs1/

Which means that Vince is relying entirely on stadium revenues--tickets, concessions, stadium signage--to pay the bills. Or maybe he just plans to eat the costs for the first two years, then sell the TV rights when the XFL is an established product?

I still think the plan amounts to "have less money" Vince is acting as his own "money mark."
05-06-2019 11:00 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #304
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Vince has $280 million set aside to fund the first few years unlike the AAF, whose primary financier is up on federal charges, forcing the bailout.
05-06-2019 01:24 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #305
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(05-06-2019 01:24 PM)whittx Wrote:  Vince has $280 million set aside to fund the first few years unlike the AAF, whose primary financier is up on federal charges, forcing the bailout.

That $280M is in addition to the $110M in stock he sold in December 2017 to initially start Alpha Entertainment, the XFL parent company.
05-06-2019 01:35 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #306
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
More details on the listings. This is really incredible exposure for the XFL.

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05-06-2019 01:45 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #307
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(05-06-2019 01:35 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(05-06-2019 01:24 PM)whittx Wrote:  Vince has $280 million set aside to fund the first few years unlike the AAF, whose primary financier is up on federal charges, forcing the bailout.

That $280M is in addition to the $110M in stock he sold in December 2017 to initially start Alpha Entertainment, the XFL parent company.

I would think he could have used that $390 million better, but what do I know?
05-06-2019 05:26 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #308
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
If he can get through the initial launch, get a major TV deal, and then flip the league he will make serious bank
05-06-2019 08:52 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #309
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(05-06-2019 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
Quote:According to Sports Business Daily, neither ESPN nor FOX will pay a rights fee for the games, but will cover the production costs (approximately $400,000 per game)


https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2019/05...c-fox-fs1/

Which means that Vince is relying entirely on stadium revenues--tickets, concessions, stadium signage--to pay the bills. Or maybe he just plans to eat the costs for the first two years, then sell the TV rights when the XFL is an established product?

I still think the plan amounts to "have less money" Vince is acting as his own "money mark."

None of these startup leagues really make any financial sense because, in a way, they are actually way too ambitious.

As I've stated elsewhere, too many people get caught up in whether there's a market for "spring football". Instead, the proper question is whether there's a market for "minor league football" regardless of the season. To the extent that there's a market for minor league football, it's going to be pretty much a ticket-and-concession-driven enterprise because the TV value generally isn't there (just as is the case for minor league baseball and hockey). The problem that I saw with the AAF was that they were looking for major pro league returns (maybe along the lines of, say, how MLS franchise values have risen) in what's ultimately a minor league sport. If that's the standard for success (which it always seems to be for these startup football leagues), then that's ultimately going to be a failure since there's a ceiling for how much a minor league team is going to be worth.

Also, I also don't understand the rationale behind having these leagues play in the spring in the first place. Why go head-to-head with March Madness, the NBA and NHL playoffs, the start of the MLB season, The Masters, etc.? The time where there's a lack of sports offerings is starting in June after the NBA Finals and Stanley Cup Finals. From that point, it's essentially just MLB for 2 months straight with the US Open and British Open mixed in.

If you were going to create a minor league for football, have the games run from around Memorial Day through around July 4th (before NFL training camps start). This allows for the minor league to sign new players that weren't drafted or signed by the NFL in the spring and provides those players with the selling point that they can play their season and still get invited to an NFL training camp in August if they do well. That also makes the prospect of a developmental agreement with the NFL much more realistic. For locations, target markets that don't have the NFL like Orlando and San Antonio. Where possible, keep stadium costs lower by going to smaller facilities (such as MLS stadiums or similarly-sized venues).

Most importantly, just stay in your lane. If you go in thinking that minor league football is suddenly going to become the most popular sports property outside of the NFL itself, then you're setting yourself up for failure. The best real opportunity is to have some alums from your league go onto success in the NFL, but that takes time to cultivate and you have to be in it for the long haul.

I think the scenario that I described above could work in theory and provide some clash flow. Unfortunately, most of the investors in these types of leagues are looking to be the next Jerry Jones as much as they are about making any money, so they spend a lot of money on flash instead of substance (which is a losing proposition because there's only so much "flash" that the public will ever believe for a minor league system).
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2019 03:11 PM by Frank the Tank.)
05-07-2019 03:09 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #310
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(05-07-2019 03:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-06-2019 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
Quote:According to Sports Business Daily, neither ESPN nor FOX will pay a rights fee for the games, but will cover the production costs (approximately $400,000 per game)


https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2019/05...c-fox-fs1/

Which means that Vince is relying entirely on stadium revenues--tickets, concessions, stadium signage--to pay the bills. Or maybe he just plans to eat the costs for the first two years, then sell the TV rights when the XFL is an established product?

I still think the plan amounts to "have less money" Vince is acting as his own "money mark."

None of these startup leagues really make any financial sense because, in a way, they are actually way too ambitious.

As I've stated elsewhere, too many people get caught up in whether there's a market for "spring football". Instead, the proper question is whether there's a market for "minor league football" regardless of the season. To the extent that there's a market for minor league football, it's going to be pretty much a ticket-and-concession-driven enterprise because the TV value generally isn't there (just as is the case for minor league baseball and hockey). The problem that I saw with the AAF was that they were looking for major pro league returns (maybe along the lines of, say, how MLS franchise values have risen) in what's ultimately a minor league sport. If that's the standard for success (which it always seems to be for these startup football leagues), then that's ultimately going to be a failure since there's a ceiling for how much a minor league team is going to be worth.

Also, I also don't understand the rationale behind having these leagues play in the spring in the first place. Why go head-to-head with March Madness, the NBA and NHL playoffs, the start of the MLB season, The Masters, etc.? The time where there's a lack of sports offerings is starting in June after the NBA Finals and Stanley Cup Finals. From that point, it's essentially just MLB for 2 months straight with the US Open and British Open mixed in.

If you were going to create a minor league for football, have the games run from around Memorial Day through around July 4th (before NFL training camps start). This allows for the minor league to sign new players that weren't drafted or signed by the NFL in the spring and provides those players with the selling point that they can play their season and still get invited to an NFL training camp in August if they do well. That also makes the prospect of a developmental agreement with the NFL much more realistic. For locations, target markets that don't have the NFL like Orlando and San Antonio. Where possible, keep stadium costs lower by going to smaller facilities (such as MLS stadiums or similarly-sized venues).

Most importantly, just stay in your lane. If you go in thinking that minor league football is suddenly going to become the most popular sports property outside of the NFL itself, then you're setting yourself up for failure. The best real opportunity is to have some alums from your league go onto success in the NFL, but that takes time to cultivate and you have to be in it for the long haul.

I think the scenario that I described above could work in theory and provide some clash flow. Unfortunately, most of the investors in these types of leagues are looking to be the next Jerry Jones as much as they are about making any money, so they spend a lot of money on flash instead of substance (which is a losing proposition because there's only so much "flash" that the public will ever believe for a minor league system).

I would have to agree. Every time I hear about a league wanting to start in Feb/March (striking while the iron is "hot") I keep thinking that they are shooting themselves in the foot.

I would have seriously considered attending a Salt Lake Stallions (or any minor league football) event in May-July when I could enjoy the game instead of freezing my butt off in a bad weather situation.
05-07-2019 03:38 PM
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AuzGrams Offline
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Post: #311
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Well they could start it February 28-March 1st before March Madness starts and then end it around May 15th or so. That severely limits the amount of time for a cold weather storm or event to happen in early March, possible, but a better timeframe for games.

I've always thought the first weekend in March before basketball tournaments start.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2019 05:09 AM by AuzGrams.)
05-08-2019 05:08 AM
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