(11-30-2018 11:14 PM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Shoving a woman to the ground (via bull rush and knocking her down) and then kicking her while down isn't assault?

He didn't do that. Watch again. She put herself in harms way. He, while being pulled back into the room bumped into one of the guys who then bumped into her. The "kicking?" it wasn't much but maybe.

So maybe we'll never know. Initially it could be said he was reasoning to get her to go. It then looked like something might have been said because the others came rushing out. That's when Hunt pushed it away.

It is going to come down to definitions. I suppose the lawyers are going to have fun but I think mostly, this indicates the need for people to recognize the target painted on their backs in this day and age and the number of scammers who are going to use social media and cameras to fish for incidents and hope to get a bite.

This is not in the same category as the others that have cost NFL careers. It's protect our azz, which is fine. As in a previous incident, definitely handled the wrong way. But it does threaten to movement to get abuse taken seriously, when something like this gets put into the same category.

The person I know who would have seen the most hypocrisy in this? My Ma, who raised me. She would have said, if it had been a man, no noise would be being made. A stout equal rightest and good for the goose and ganderer, she would have said the other COMBATANT got what she deserved and got off easy.

Me? I say walk away. There was no threat posed. Walk away, let hotel security handle it.

(12-01-2018 06:20 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-30-2018 11:14 PM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Shoving a woman to the ground (via bull rush and knocking her down) and then kicking her while down isn't assault?

He didn't do that. Watch again. She put herself in harms way. He, while being pulled back into the room bumped into one of the guys who then bumped into her. The "kicking?" it wasn't much but maybe.

So maybe we'll never know. Initially it could be said he was reasoning to get her to go. It then looked like something might have been said because the others came rushing out. That's when Hunt pushed it away.

It is going to come down to definitions. I suppose the lawyers are going to have fun but I think mostly, this indicates the need for people to recognize the target painted on their backs in this day and age and the number of scammers who are going to use social media and cameras to fish for incidents and hope to get a bite.

This is not in the same category as the others that have cost NFL careers. It's protect our azz, which is fine. As in a previous incident, definitely handled the wrong way. But it does threaten to movement to get abuse taken seriously, when something like this gets put into the same category.

The person I know who would have seen the most hypocrisy in this? My Ma, who raised me. She would have said, if it had been a man, no noise would be being made. A stout equal rightest and good for the goose and ganderer, she would have said the other COMBATANT got what she deserved and got off easy.

Me? I say walk away. There was no threat posed. Walk away, let hotel security handle it.

I'll leave your mom out of it, but I completely disagree with your assessment of Hunt's behavior in that video. He's an adult. He shouldn't act like a six-year-old. We all get angry at times in life, but very few of us ever behave like that. I would expect to lose my job if a similar video came out featuring me.

It is easy to say what was on the video wasn't really as bad as the headlines were making it sound. It is easy to chalk it up to being young and stupid. It is easy to say "well there are others in the league who have done just as bad or worse". However, the situation is what it is. He's on video tape knocking a woman down and kicking her. He then lied to his employer and his employer's governing body. Was it situational and reflection of his true character, I don't know. From earlier accounts it sounded like he and his buddies found out they weren't women, but underage girls and kicked them out. Underage girls in the hallway yelling of the hotel, possibly pissed about being kicked out and needing ride may have led to the urgency with what he felt they needed to leave. However even in my younger days, when I would get obnoxiously hammered, I never knocked a woman down, or in this case a girl, to the ground and touched them. It's easy to say it wasn't that bad, but aren't these the same situations most people would be openly mocked and discounted as trash? If this happened when he was at UT, plastering his name and the university's logo all over social media, would people say "ah, no big deal". Don't we want adults to act like adults? Hopefully this isn't who he is and he can give his "what I did was completely unacceptable, blah blah press conference" and whatever other PR work he needs to do and get back into the league. However, when you do something stupid in life, sometimes you have to pay the piper.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.13

Awfully hard to argue this wasn’t assault.

(12-01-2018 08:13 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.13

Awfully hard to argue this wasn’t assault.

Maybe depends upon your definition of "awfully hard," lol.

Pushing? The initial? Maybe? don't think that's going to wash. Could be viewed as a means to get the person to leave. Same thing anyone here would do if they felt threatened, if their family felt threatened regardless the "size" of the threat. I think a lawyer would argue that the other came back, while he was in his abode, so to speak. Whether his knocking into the guy, who knocked into the other? Maybe. The "kicking?" eh, " It was hardly a kick that we would think of. His strength, her size? She'd have moved down the hall five feet. So I think from your definition would the law have a case for "serious?" I don't think so. Maybe part A but probably not part B?

He pushed her away. She came back, several times.

Agreeing on the public relations effects, that's easy. Agreeing on definitions of law? That's why we have a system. I would think SHE should be prosecuted as well.

My main point, if something like this gets bundled into the "abuse" category, I feel it threatens to undermine the movement to put that in the limelight and makes it a joke, makes it a get-rich quick agent's dream.

This was an altercation. Two parties. Regardless some "man" thinks it different because one of the combatants is female, it is not.

And any of these "men" that want to come to MY neighborhood and get into a bar fight with a female? I suggest you buy your bus ticket one way and bring a cell to call whomever who want to speak to last, before you do. This is not a Beaver Cleaver world people. Never was.

Walk away. Same conclusions we all came to when this came out. It's not different now that some video has come out. I would be interested in knowing the extent of "the lie" because there's nothing here that I hadn't presumed and hadn't been openly talked about in February.

(12-01-2018 08:30 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(12-01-2018 08:13 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.13

Awfully hard to argue this wasn’t assault.

Maybe depends upon your definition of "awfully hard," lol.

Pushing? The initial? Maybe? don't think that's going to wash. Could be viewed as a means to get the person to leave. Same thing anyone here would do if they felt threatened, if their family felt threatened regardless the "size" of the threat. I think a lawyer would argue that the other came back, while he was in his abode, so to speak. Whether his knocking into the guy, who knocked into the other? Maybe. The "kicking?" eh, " It was hardly a kick that we would think of. His strength, her size? She'd have moved down the hall five feet. So I think from your definition would the law have a case for "serious?" I don't think so. Maybe part A but probably not part B?

He pushed her away. She came back, several times.

Agreeing on the public relations effects, that's easy. Agreeing on definitions of law? That's why we have a system. I would think SHE should be prosecuted as well.

My main point, if something like this gets bundled into the "abuse" category, I feel it threatens to undermine the movement to put that in the limelight and makes it a joke, makes it a get-rich quick agents dream.

This was an altercation. Two parties. Regardless some "man" thinks it different because one of the combatants is female, it is not.

And any of these "men" that want to come to MY neighborhood and get into a bar fight with a female? I suggest you buy your bus ticket one way and bring a cell to call whomever who want to speak to last, before you do. This is not a Beaver Cleaver world people. Never was.

Walk away. Same conclusions we all came to when this came out. It's not different now that some people want to make money off it.

Walk away. Good advice. One big problem between Kareem and the Chiefs is that he reportedly was not truthful with them.

The thing for me is that the league handle ray rice so poorly that they go to these extreme measures on every incident. Yet there was no league investigation in February when this happened? Just poor leadership on the league part. As for Kareem I am just sad that he did not learn as a child how to treat other people.

There is truly a double standard in the league. One of many reasons I do not watch much NFL any more


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I just feel sad about this. Sad that Hunt got himself into a situation, sad that he reacted the way he did during the incident (repeatedly), and sad that he either lied or was in no position to remember what happened when he was asked by KC.

Part A speaks to “knowingly”, Part B “recklessly”, like pushing someone into a pool for fun where they get hurt. Hence the “serious” modifier for B and not for A.

From USA Today. Will Kareem Hunt ever play in the NFL again?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/co...173043002/

(12-01-2018 08:58 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Part A speaks to “knowingly”, Part B “recklessly”, like pushing someone into a pool for fun where they get hurt. Hence the “serious” modifier for B and not for A.

I can only imagine the games they play with the word "knowlingly." I did find interesting the extensive focus on public servants as opposed to most of the world. It shows the need to protect the system that we need to function without threat.

And there are so many levels. Just putting your hands on someone? Threat or not? Pushing away someone that's approaching you, as was done here initially? Threat or not? Attempt to cause harm or not?

If I recall correctly, you worked in a juvi environment? So I suspect some experience in your opinion. Even still, from a legal interpretation, I wonder if it's as easy an argument you presume.

Can you step through the clip, give your interpretation at each step?

Isn't one of our posters an attorney?

Terrible yes, deserving of fines and suspension, yes. Cut worthy, probably no. The lying probably superceded the push in this case. He made an entire organization and NFL look silly and its still in the shadow of the Ray Rice incident.

I hover between paying for your mistakes for life and deserving a second chance. It sucks that one move like this can affect the rest of your life. Years ago I made one innocent, dumb comment with the intention of being funny and it probably cost me a former job, so I know full well the ramifications of one's actions. Years of exemplary service can go down the drain in an instant. It can happen to anyone.

We all deserve a chance at redemption, but the court of public opinion weighs heavily in this case. The loss of viewer ratings, the leagues stance on violence, women viewers, the stadium protests. The NFL brand will rule supreme and they have no problem tossing the baby out with the bath water in this case. Saving one guy isn't worth it to the league.

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My perspective on this is a little different - likely because I gained that perspective that comes along at various times in our lives and gives it to us whether we want it or not. I spent the last week in Houston taking over the duties of a friend and co-worker who was recently diagnosed with lung cancer and is going through his second round of treatments. I will be filling in for him through Christmas and into next year -with the hope he returns. That is a situation that goes beyond whether a guy gets future millions playing a sport, vs. worrying how his kids might have to grow up without him.

I got home at 1am this morning, and just saw the news on ESPN about Hunt. Shocking and sad for sure - and I hope he gets a second chance to play in the league. Everything I have heard is that he has great character - but being impaired can knock that down pretty quickly. Nobody actually gets smarter when they are drunk, but I know plenty of people who believe just the opposite, then go out routinely and prove my point.

I still think of guys like Hunt as being part of a "family" and still think it is great he came to Toledo and worked his a$$ off. He never quit on us.

I haven't seen the video - not sure I care to see it. I know it will be ugly just from what I have read here. I came out here to see the comments and reaction. About what I would have expected based on the earlier reports of that incident.

I will pull for Hunt to recover - and return to his place of work. He has to prove himself worthy all over again. I hope he fights for it - and I suspect he will. It is sad, but it is not tragic. It's just putting it in perspective - and hoping for a comeback.

Early on he reaches around the peacemaker and shoved her, then again at 15 seconds either hits or attempts to hit her. The bar for a first degree misdemeanor is not set very high. The kick probably qualifies as well since it took her legs out. But, meeting the criteria for assault and getting a prosecutor to push for it in a brawl situation are different things. We had a terrible time getting them interested in domestic violence cases. The actions of the woman might meet the standard as well from what is reported. But she doesn’t play for the Chiefs so no one cares.

She went to UT. She knew Kareem for years... On the 911 call she said "I was assaulted", "I think his name is Kareem?"... What?? You know him, don't play dumb and innocent
This had an agenda

(12-01-2018 10:52 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  She went to UT. She knew Kareem for years... On the 911 call she said "I was assaulted", "I think his name is Kareem?"... What?? You know him, don't play dumb and innocent
This had an agenda

Hunt was released by KC

He got exactly what he deserved, released. He knows exactly what is expected of himself and his quite friends and associates. His playing days are certainly in jeopardy and his earning power has completely sank to the bottom. Never, again I say never, does a man have a reason to strike a woman. WALK AWAY. He did the opposite and went back towards the altercation. Stupid choices have severe consequences. He made some bad choices in college as well I’m sure, but they didn’t have these same consequences.

He needs to get help, which the NFL and any future employers will mandate, before they put their money behind him. Sad all away around , but I don’t have any sympathy for him at this point.

(12-01-2018 10:52 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  She went to UT. She knew Kareem for years... On the 911 call she said "I was assaulted", "I think his name is Kareem?"... What?? You know him, don't play dumb and innocent
This had an agenda

She had an agenda? If so, why wasn't she on the news and taking him to court for money? An NFL rival agenda, because teams knew the Chiefs would be good? No. If you or I went on a business trip and video like this came out, we would be fired in a heart beat. No different. The only agenda was whoever got cash from TMZ for the footage.

(12-01-2018 10:52 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  She went to UT. She knew Kareem for years... On the 911 call she said "I was assaulted", "I think his name is Kareem?"... What?? You know him, don't play dumb and innocent
This had an agenda

I thought they said she went to Kent State

He made a mistake, what he did was very wrong and he deserves to pay a price. He now needs to own up to it, take the penalties both legal, financial and from the league. Apologize and make rightful and honest restitution. Serve out (and not fight or delay) the suspension that will be issued by the NFL, and then perhaps a team will be willing to take him back on with a low risk low cost one year deal, and he will have to work hard to earn back the respect and support of his fans and teammates. People make mistakes, its how they own up to it and respond that determines their future, he is young and not being aware of any other legal or character issues, once he "serves his time" he should have right to seek employment including as a NFL player.