CNN, the supposed "centrist" network ran how many hours of unsubstantiated Avenatti claims of Judge Kavanaugh and friends running trains on girls every weekend? And NBC had official statements from one of Swetnick's "witnesses" denying the accusation but sat on it until AFTER the confirmation was over.

When the left and its complicit media outlets look in the mirror, it is ugly, twisted, and corrupt.

(10-30-2018 12:10 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  CNN, the supposed "centrist" network ran how many hours of unsubstantiated Avenatti claims of Judge Kavanaugh and friends running trains on girls every weekend? And NBC had official statements from one of Swetnick's "witnesses" denying the accusation but sat on it until AFTER the confirmation was over.

When the left and its complicit media outlets look in the mirror, it is ugly, twisted, and corrupt.

The right- and left-wing news media both pander to their audiences, omitting facts that would be upsetting for their viewers. And the president has the right to disagree.

But I have no idea how you look at the tone, the content, or the conduct towards these outlets and say, "This is a good thing for America. I wish more people on both sides spoke to each other the way the president does."

Is that what you're arguing? That if the Democrats heightened their rhetoric, the country would be a better place?

I am arguing that the once respected left has lost all credibility in my eyes, and the debacle of the Kavanaugh confirmation has moved once ambivalent voters to the right, out of a sense of outrage at the accusations and lies levied against an innocent man by an unrelenting left. Combine that with a never-ending investigation of Russian collusion that never happened, and common folk have had enough.

President Trump is brash and blunt. I'd choose my words more carefully if in the same postion. However, as far as honoring the campaign commitments made, I would have to say that President has delivered better and faster than any President in recent history.

(10-30-2018 12:10 AM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:05 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:00 AM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 11:56 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 11:13 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  I don't think that anyone says that you cannot disagree with a news organization. In this polarized environment, it's impossible not to.

The question is whether it is over the line to characterize individuals whose opinions you disagree with in the same terms you would describe a hostile foreign power.

The press is given a special role in our society with specific protection in the Constitution. When every piece of news goes through the "how can we make Trump look bad" filter, they set themselves up for the criticism they get.

So you would be ok with Obama or Hillary talking about Trump that way?

They are private citizens with the same freedom of speech that the rest of us have. Just as long as they don't yell, "Trump set the theater on fire!", while in the theater.

This is the argument that Democrats are making, which I agree with. When the President of the United States basks in chants of "lock her up", calls citizens "enemies of our country", and applauds violence against citizens, he is doing the same thing as yelling fire in a crowded theater.

The reason you can't yell fire is because any reasonable person should know what the consequences would be of their speech and how people would get hurt from the content and tone of their speech.

Democrats and Republicans are free to say what they wish, be it true or not. I thought what was under discussion was the role of the press which today is not much more that the media office of the Democratic Party. The Democrats and their friends in the press beat up George Bush almost daily for 8 years. He did not fight back for whatever reason. Maybe he didn't think it was presidential. Trump fights back and they don't like it. The press makes no pretense of neutrality. If Trump is wrong he should be criticized. If he's right he should get credit.

And just for some truth in advertising, I didn't vote for the guy, nor his opponent, because I couldn't stand either one of them. After two years I see some good and some bad unless I'm reading the paper where it is all bad.

(10-30-2018 12:28 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I am arguing that the once respected left has lost all credibility in my eyes, and the debacle of the Kavanaugh confirmation has moved once ambivalent voters to the right, out of a sense of outrage at the accusations and lies levied against an innocent man by an unrelenting left. Combine that with a never-ending investigation of Russian collusion that never happened, and common folk have had enough.

President Trump is brash and blunt. I'd choose my words more carefully if in the same postion. However, as far as honoring the campaign commitments made, I would have to say that President has delivered better and faster than any President in recent history.

But this is a big part of the problems facing our country. Many people believe that those that disagree with have lost all credibility. I would guess that ~30% v 30% of the country think that the other side is completely delusional.

But when we give our leaders a pass in vilifying the opposition, we destroy the ability to have honest conversations about solutions.

The fact that closest we've gotten in this conversation to a condemnation of Trump's historically aggressive characterizations of his political opponents is a "I'd choose my words more carefully", scares me far more than partisan propaganda.

Being unable to admit your mistakes or the mistakes of your leaders is not strength, it reveals your insecurity.

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

He called "Fake News" coming from the press the enemy of the people. He didn't call out the press in general terms the enemy of the people.

In that same vein your post above is fake news because of its slanted and biased position by ignoring that important aspect of his press related commentary.

That is cute, and utter nonsense.

The left, through embedded governmental employees, has strategically tried to overturn a valid election, has sent the prosecutorial powers of the DOJ and Special Counsel to find dirt on President Trump based in large part on an unverified dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign, levied horrible and false accusations against a legitimate Supreme Court nominee, and now blames the President for the killing of Jewish worshippers in Pittsburgh. All have been unsuccessful, but painful events. That we have a President that actually calls bull**** on these Leftist antics is not only accepted, but applauded by those that have had enough of media-driven lies and half-truths perpetuated by the left. The man has the right to defend himself, and amazingly has succeeded in governing while fighting off the Left's best shots. I applaud him for that.

(10-30-2018 12:54 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

He called "Fake News" coming from the press the enemy of the people. He didn't call out the press in general terms the enemy of the people.

In that same vein your post above is fake news because of its slanted and biased position by ignoring that important aspect of his press related commentary.

Yes, but he also likes to claim only certain networks are fake. I'm mildly surprised Democrats haven't spent a ton of time claiming Fox News is fake in response. Since no one in America seems to understand why cable news networks exist anymore anyway.

(10-30-2018 12:54 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

He called "Fake News" coming from the press the enemy of the people. He didn't call out the press in general terms the enemy of the people.

In that same vein your post above is fake news because of its slanted and biased position by ignoring that important aspect of his press related commentary.

First of all, can we stop calling things "Fake News"? Saying that my opinion post on a message board is fake news is the way a child learning to speak would make broad characterizations with simple words. Trying to emulate children in speech does not make discussions between adults more nuanced.

Secondly, you're right. He has never called sympathetic media outlets fake news, so he has not vilified the entire press. My posts in this thread have referenced Trump's rhetoric towards political opponents. My points and questions still stand. Would America be better off as a country if more people on both sides matched Trump's tone and rhetoric?

(10-30-2018 12:58 AM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  That is cute, and utter nonsense.

The left, through embedded governmental employees, has strategically tried to overturn a valid election, has sent the prosecutorial powers of the DOJ and Special Counsel to find dirt on President Trump based in large part on an unverified dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign, levied horrible and false accusations against a legitimate Supreme Court nominee, and now blames the President for the killing of Jewish worshippers in Pittsburgh. All have been unsuccessful, but painful events. That we have a President that actually calls bull**** on these Leftist antics is not only accepted, but applauded by those that have had enough of media-driven lies and half-truths perpetuated by the left. The man has the right to defend himself, and amazingly has succeeded in governing while fighting off the Left's best shots. I applaud him for that.

I'm a Christian and my faith informs a lot of my perspective. In discussions with others, I try to keep in mind Christian values such as treating others with respect and humility. That's why I do my best to be respectful, even of those I disagree with.

I can surmise from your condescension and unwavering confidence in your intelligence that you don't subscribe to the Christian faith, and that's ok. But, as a fellow human, I would still recommend that you give those values of humility and respect some consideration, they're not exclusive to the Christian faith and can be beneficial no matter what your belief system.

To your statement, there are many that would disagree with your view of recent events, many educated people that believe the opposite. How do you know that your fraction of the country (and the world) is correct, while the rest are hopelessly ignorant or delusional?

And back to the main question, would our country be better off if more people took every opportunity to defend themselves every time they felt attacked? If so, do you feel that the left is not fighting hard enough?

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

I don’t use Twitter and honestly don’t read all of Trump’s messages. But of the ones I’ve seen, the phrase “enemy of the people” was not used to describe “the press” as a single monolithic entity, but rather a specific subset of the press which Trump calls “Fake News”. As in: “Fake News is the enemy of the people.”

I would personally advise the president to leave that phrase — “enemy of the people” — out of the mix. Too easily misconstrued, IMHO.

To me, the basic problem here is that various media — CNN, NBC, NPR and NYT comes to mind, though far from the only ones — like to pose as neutral or non-partisan observers of the passing scene. “Reporters”, if you will. And every one in a while, they do actually perform some of that service or function. Yet in day-to-day reality, they also act as partisans. And their partisanship is always for the same side: anti-Trump, anti-GOP, anti-conservative. For reason(s) which genuinely baffles me, some people get upset when their partisanship is pointed out and discussed.

If you’re going to throw a punch, you’d better be ready to take a punch, too.

(10-30-2018 03:00 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

I don’t use Twitter and honestly don’t read all of Trump’s messages. But of the ones I’ve seen, the phrase “enemy of the people” was not used to describe “the press” as a single monolithic entity, but rather a specific subset of the press which Trump calls “Fake News”. As in: “Fake News is the enemy of the people.”

I would personally advise the president to leave that phrase — “enemy of the people” — out of the mix. Too easily misconstrued, IMHO.

To me, the basic problem here is that various media — CNN, NBC, NPR and NYT comes to mind, though far from the only ones — like to pose as neutral or non-partisan observers of the passing scene. “Reporters”, if you will. And every one in a while, they do actually perform some of that service or function. Yet in day-to-day reality, they also act as partisans. And their partisanship is always for the same side: anti-Trump, anti-GOP, anti-conservative. For reason(s) which genuinely baffles me, some people get upset when their partisanship is pointed out and discussed.

If you’re going to throw a punch, you’d better be ready to take a punch, too.

At one point in time, they were able to successfully pose as neutral. Tim Russert was good as were Jim Lehrer and Tom Brokaw for most of their careers. Heck, I even remember in the late 90s when I looked forward to Chris Matthews Hardball show on MSNBC and a young Tucker Carlson debating James Carville on CNN's Crossfire. Now they no longer pretend and they make up stories.

(10-30-2018 01:13 AM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:54 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

He called "Fake News" coming from the press the enemy of the people. He didn't call out the press in general terms the enemy of the people.

In that same vein your post above is fake news because of its slanted and biased position by ignoring that important aspect of his press related commentary.

First of all, can we stop calling things "Fake News"? Saying that my opinion post on a message board is fake news is the way a child learning to speak would make broad characterizations with simple words. Trying to emulate children in speech does not make discussions between adults more nuanced.

Secondly, you're right. He has never called sympathetic media outlets fake news, so he has not vilified the entire press. My posts in this thread have referenced Trump's rhetoric towards political opponents. My points and questions still stand. Would America be better off as a country if more people on both sides matched Trump's tone and rhetoric?

Trump's tone and rhetoric is nothing more than a response to the last eight years of hate and divisiveness from the left. The only reason there is an uproar now is because the left never imagined that anyone would fight back.

America is not better off for it in the short run, but if it is able to turn the direction of the country away from where it was heading then it will be well worth it in the long run.

(10-29-2018 10:18 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:15 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 08:46 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Donald J. Trump 
@realDonaldTrump 
· 
11m 
There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...


quote:
Donald J. Trump 
Donald J. Trump 
@realDonaldTrump 
· 
7m 
....of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News must end!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

I find it very odd that he now wants peace and harmony.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I've yet to hear him call for any type of violence against the media.

are you kidding? he just stated the media is the "enemy of the people"!! Are you all just ignorant..

Lenin used versions of this phrase repeatedly: Lenin used Enemy of the workers, Enemy of the Proletariat, to refer to the ruling aristocrats and others. They were jailed, or killed.

Nazi's used the term, the Blank Panthers used the term, fascists and militants. Get your head out of your ass...some nut just sent bombs to some in the media and our president calls them "the true enemy of the people". unreal...this guy is dangerous you all are either too blind or plain stupid to see him for what he is.

(10-30-2018 08:05 AM)BobL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:18 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:15 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 08:46 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Donald J. Trump 
@realDonaldTrump 
· 
11m 
There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...


quote:
Donald J. Trump 
Donald J. Trump 
@realDonaldTrump 
· 
7m 
....of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News must end!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

I find it very odd that he now wants peace and harmony.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I've yet to hear him call for any type of violence against the media.

are you kidding? he just stated the media is the "enemy of the people"!! Are you all just ignorant..

Lenin used versions of this phrase repeatedly: Lenin used Enemy of the workers, Enemy of the Proletariat, to refer to the ruling aristocrats and others. They were jailed, or killed.

Nazi's used the term, the Blank Panthers used the term, fascists and militants. Get your head out of your ass...some nut just sent bombs to some in the media and our president calls them "the true enemy of the people". unreal...this guy is dangerous you all are either too blind or plain stupid to see him for what he is.

It would be extremely helpful if you guys would get it through your thick skulls that Trump is calling fake news the 'enemy of the people'. Calling out those who lie or deceive is not exactly making threats of violence. Fkin drama queens.

(10-30-2018 10:02 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 08:05 AM)BobL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:18 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:15 AM)pcm0103 Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 08:46 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Donald J. Trump 
@realDonaldTrump 
· 
11m 
There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...


quote:
Donald J. Trump 
Donald J. Trump 
@realDonaldTrump 
· 
7m 
....of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News must end!

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

I find it very odd that he now wants peace and harmony.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I've yet to hear him call for any type of violence against the media.

are you kidding? he just stated the media is the "enemy of the people"!! Are you all just ignorant..

Lenin used versions of this phrase repeatedly: Lenin used Enemy of the workers, Enemy of the Proletariat, to refer to the ruling aristocrats and others. They were jailed, or killed.

Nazi's used the term, the Blank Panthers used the term, fascists and militants. Get your head out of your ass...some nut just sent bombs to some in the media and our president calls them "the true enemy of the people". unreal...this guy is dangerous you all are either too blind or plain stupid to see him for what he is.

It would be extremely helpful if you guys would get it through your thick skulls that Trump is calling fake news the 'enemy of the people'. Calling out those who lie or deceive is not exactly making threats of violence. Fkin drama queens.

They are just being obtuse. Anyone with a brain knows EXACTLY whom Trump is talking about. I guess the MSM thinks its minions will just play along stupidly like lap dogs and not actually think for themselves.

(10-30-2018 01:13 AM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:54 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

He called "Fake News" coming from the press the enemy of the people. He didn't call out the press in general terms the enemy of the people.

In that same vein your post above is fake news because of its slanted and biased position by ignoring that important aspect of his press related commentary.

First of all, can we stop calling things "Fake News"? Saying that my opinion post on a message board is fake news is the way a child learning to speak would make broad characterizations with simple words. Trying to emulate children in speech does not make discussions between adults more nuanced.

Secondly, you're right. He has never called sympathetic media outlets fake news, so he has not vilified the entire press. My posts in this thread have referenced Trump's rhetoric towards political opponents. My points and questions still stand. Would America be better off as a country if more people on both sides matched Trump's tone and rhetoric?

No! First of all, we can only stop calling things "Fake News" when the news outlets that are constantly pumping out fake or misleading news in spite of knowing differently stop. A classic example is NBC sitting on news - actually some key and pertinent facts that one of their interviewed witnesses stated - that they knew would be a big help to Kavanaugh till after the Senate hearings instead of reporting it. Why? Because they aren't just reporting news anymore. They are also backing a political group (Democrats). Sure, guys like you who are backing the Liberal/Socialist side that is putting out the vast majority of the fake news don't like the fact that their news outlets are being labeled with that negative connotation. Also, all of that "child learning to speak" BS in your post is nothing more than your own bullying tactic to try to shut down being called out on it yourself. If you either don't know the difference between news "facts" and fake news "facts", or you just conveniently left some facts out (as you did) to present a better point of view for your argument then yes, you did your own version of "Fake News".

Secondly, there is no reasonable argument to be made that the mainstream news outlets (including ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and NBC) have not regularly, routinely, daily, and hourly pumped out stories with the main intent of being negative towards President Trump and Republicans. Anything bad happens .... it's Trump's (or the Republicans fault) even if they had noting to do with it. Anything good happens ... they frequently don't even say a word about it, or at least don't report it as they would if Obama were still "giving them a thrill up their leg".

As for your question about "matching Trump's tone and rhetoric" ... it is a fair question, however it is very one sided the way it is presented. Trump's "rhetoric" pales in comparison to what the Democrats have been doing to stir up the hatred. Keep in mind what the Democrats did before he was even sworn in. They first tried to get the Electoral College to change the way the individuals representing each state presented their votes to the Electoral College - i.e., if Trump won North Carolina for example to get their 17 electoral votes (as he did), they attempted to coerce the people that actually present the votes representing North Carolina to change some or all of those votes to Hillary Clinton in an attempt to lower Trumps Electoral College score and deprive him of his duly elected win. Since that point in time all the way up until today they have been shouting "impeach Trump, impeach 45" and make no mistake .... if they take back control of the House they will probably start down that road. They sat on his cabinet nominations without confirming them an unusually long time in an attempt to keep him from being able to do much early on. They have shown that they will resort to anything to stop a Supreme Court nomination (Kavanaugh). Recently, several of their representatives have actively and openly preached to their followers to "get in the faces" of Conservatives anywhere you encounter them which has led to Conservatives at times not even being able to have a quiet dinner in a restaurant with their families, or go on a date to a movie theater. If you want to paint Trump calling out certain news outlets for doing "Fake News" as being somehow similar to the things I have just listed then knock yourself out, but I for one am not buying it, because it isn't anywhere close to being similar.

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

Actually, long before Trump I was aware of the destructive role the MSM had been playing in our society.

In fact, it was common topic on the old Memphis politics-religion board.

With Trump, we're just excited that someone in a position of governmental authority has recognized and expressed what conservatives have thought for a couple of decades now.

(10-30-2018 10:48 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

Actually, long before Trump I was aware of the destructive role the MSM had been playing in our society.

In fact, it was common topic on the old Memphis politics-religion board.

With Trump, we're just excited that someone in a position of governmental authority has recognized and expressed what conservatives have thought for a couple of decades now.

I can appreciate that. I don't think anyone is objecting to Trump calling out what he feels is unfair coverage. Presidents have always done that.

The objection is that the tone/language/rhetoric is so confrontational that it is dangerous. Like yelling fire in a crowded theater, it's not even the words but the context that feels over the line to many Americans.

(10-30-2018 10:06 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 01:13 AM)atsKnight Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:54 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:58 PM)atsKnight Wrote:  So are there any Republicans on here that think that Trump's rhetoric about the media has been been unnecessary at best, dangerous at worst?

Or is the consensus that calling the press "the enemy of the people" is a good thing?

He called "Fake News" coming from the press the enemy of the people. He didn't call out the press in general terms the enemy of the people.

In that same vein your post above is fake news because of its slanted and biased position by ignoring that important aspect of his press related commentary.

First of all, can we stop calling things "Fake News"? Saying that my opinion post on a message board is fake news is the way a child learning to speak would make broad characterizations with simple words. Trying to emulate children in speech does not make discussions between adults more nuanced.

Secondly, you're right. He has never called sympathetic media outlets fake news, so he has not vilified the entire press. My posts in this thread have referenced Trump's rhetoric towards political opponents. My points and questions still stand. Would America be better off as a country if more people on both sides matched Trump's tone and rhetoric?

No! First of all, we can only stop calling things "Fake News" when the news outlets that are constantly pumping out fake or misleading news in spite of knowing differently stop. A classic example is NBC sitting on news - actually some key and pertinent facts that one of their interviewed witnesses stated - that they knew would be a big help to Kavanaugh till after the Senate hearings instead of reporting it. Why? Because they aren't just reporting news anymore. They are also backing a political group (Democrats). Sure, guys like you who are backing the Liberal/Socialist side that is putting out the vast majority of the fake news don't like the fact that their news outlets are being labeled with that negative connotation. Also, all of that "child learning to speak" BS in your post is nothing more than your own bullying tactic to try to shut down being called out on it yourself. If you either don't know the difference between news "facts" and fake news "facts", or you just conveniently left some facts out (as you did) to present a better point of view for your argument then yes, you did your own version of "Fake News".

I'm not sure how you are construing what I said as bullying. Could you explain for me how you define bullying?

If you disagree with someone's post on a message board, there are many options for stating your disagreement. You did a great job of pointing out that you felt like I was conveniently leaving facts out to present a better point of view for my argument. Now I can take that expression of thought and ask you to list what facts were left out. Maybe I didn't feel like the facts were left out, but disagree on the objective truth of the facts. But we can have a discussion about it like adults.

When all you say is, Fake News!!, you don't come across like someone who wants to hear, but someone who only wants to be heard. And the oversimplification devolves the argument. You could say that Kim Jong-Un is a 'meany-pants', and most would agree, but there are better descriptors to use than that.

(10-30-2018 10:06 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Secondly, there is no reasonable argument to be made that the mainstream news outlets (including ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and NBC) have not regularly, routinely, daily, and hourly pumped out stories with the main intent of being negative towards President Trump and Republicans. Anything bad happens .... it's Trump's (or the Republicans fault) even if they had noting to do with it. Anything good happens ... they frequently don't even say a word about it, or at least don't report it as they would if Obama were still "giving them a thrill up their leg".

I would disagree with this and most people consider me reasonable. NBC, CBS, and ABC aren't trying to be partisan outlets. I think the problem that many conservatives run into is that they myopically believe they are right on every issue. If you're right on every issue, then of course everyone else will be wrong, and the only reasons why are that they are stupid or evil. Again, because of my Christian faith, I try to start my evaluation of people assuming that there is a possibility that I'm wrong. So, I try to make as few judgments about people's motivations as I can. Do you have a faith tradition that informs your beliefs on how to treat others?

(10-30-2018 10:06 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  As for your question about "matching Trump's tone and rhetoric" ... it is a fair question, however it is very one sided the way it is presented. Trump's "rhetoric" pales in comparison to what the Democrats have been doing to stir up the hatred. Keep in mind what the Democrats did before he was even sworn in. They first tried to get the Electoral College to change the way the individuals representing each state presented their votes to the Electoral College - i.e., if Trump won North Carolina for example to get their 17 electoral votes (as he did), they attempted to coerce the people that actually present the votes representing North Carolina to change some or all of those votes to Hillary Clinton in an attempt to lower Trumps Electoral College score and deprive him of his duly elected win. Since that point in time all the way up until today they have been shouting "impeach Trump, impeach 45" and make no mistake .... if they take back control of the House they will probably start down that road. They sat on his cabinet nominations without confirming them an unusually long time in an attempt to keep him from being able to do much early on. They have shown that they will resort to anything to stop a Supreme Court nomination (Kavanaugh). Recently, several of their representatives have actively and openly preached to their followers to "get in the faces" of Conservatives anywhere you encounter them which has led to Conservatives at times not even being able to have a quiet dinner in a restaurant with their families, or go on a date to a movie theater. If you want to paint Trump calling out certain news outlets for doing "Fake News" as being somehow similar to the things I have just listed then knock yourself out, but I for one am not buying it, because it isn't anywhere close to being similar.

Instead of childish terminology, I would characterize this as a childish argument. "Did you do something wrong?" "So and so did it first!"
I try to teach my kids that even though if other kids do things that are wrong, they are responsible for their own actions.

If other people doing bad things were a justification for my actions, I could be a very pious serial killer if I wanted to be.