(08-22-2018 01:41 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.


This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

This was one of the talking points that popped up.

Let's divert to the issue of rape.

If it were up to me, I would punish rape crimes with the death penalty. That would not include those instances where women consented but then later changed their mind after the fact.


Now, focusing back on the reality of this particular event. I naturally assume she was raped. I personally haven't seen this confirmed by a news story. It may already have been, I don't know.

What we DO know is that if this particular guy had not been in the country he would not have been there to see her, follow her, kidnap her, rape her, or murder her.

And if he was not there, that does not mean some other guy would have popped up and taken his place.


No. An illegal alien killed this girl. Not rape culture.

Why isn't Fox News all over the stories of women who are raped & murdered by citizens, then? They're more concerned about this guy's immigration status than the crime.

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

(08-22-2018 01:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 01:13 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:37 AM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 06:37 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Are you upset that illegals commit crimes at a much higher rate than legal citizens and that the man who murdered this young woman was an illegal Mexican? And that this is a big news story must upset you. It could have been worse the perp could have been a brown muslim, cheer up Mach.

Source?

U.S. Sentencing Commission. In 2016, 22% of murder convictions were illegals, despite them only being ~4% of the general population.

https://www.ussc.gov/

It is amazing that you want to call the MSM fake news but you swallow whatever Fox News shoves down your throat.

Tucker Carlson intentionally mislead with those stats. The numbers are not new now nor were they new when Tucker report on them in 2017. Here are links to previous reports:

2016:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

2015:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

2014:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

2007:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

The numbers you've used are the non-citizen rates for particular convictions, e.g. 22.6% of all federal convictions for murder were by non-citizens. Notice anything about those murder numbers? 84 total murders in the U.S. seems low right. It is because it only accounts for federal convictions, and this data is overall discussing the federal prison population. In fact, in the U.S. in 2016 there were more than 17,000 murder convictions.

Federal prison population is skewed towards non-citizens because illegal immigration is a federal crime, so these numbers are not even representative of the larger prison population.

Tucker’s argument that is "Non citizens commit 22% more murder" because there are 19 non-citizens that have murder convictions in federal prison, which accounts for less than 0.5% of all U.S. murder convictions. I call that Fake News.

Federal convictions are federal convictions. A subset of data (which I offered) is more reliable than no data at all (which you offered). If you've got better data, feel free to share, but I doubt it, as that brings me to my next point..

I'll give Mr_XcentricK the opportunity to retract and disavow, otherwise he will be known from now on as a plagiarist, as his previous post is copied word for word, from this Reddit forum.

Do your own research and come up with your own thoughts, man. Or if you're going to lift someone else's words, at least put it in quotes and cite the source. Come on. That was pathetic.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comm...istics_us/

Yes I did get the information from reddit but no it is not word for word. I did my own research and I came across that post that laid the argument out succinctly. I was in a rush and trying to change it, I meant to hit "Preview Post" and hit "post reply". At that point I was in a rush and said "@$% it". The argument speaks for it self which you and many others on here will ignore because it blows up the talking points.Had I been right a paper for school or publication I would have cited it but I was lazy.

No let me get this right, You throw up a video of Carlson just tossing out numbers without context and in turn will not argue the facts? Instead you want to complain that I copied someone else strong argument from redditt.

Yes federal convictions are subset of data but will look at data against all homicide convictions you get a very different conclusion because you are looking at the whole picture.

You should look at the study done by the Cato institute. That studies shows immigrants this likely to commit crime by looking at the data from Texas, a state I think we can all agree has a problem with immigration.

But sure go ahead and give us another Fox News video of the truth and leave social statistics to people that understand them.

Disgusting Dems:

(08-22-2018 03:06 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:57 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 11:07 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-21-2018 10:17 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  Probably because the board liberals don’t feel the need to condemn something that is a condemned universally. Is this young lady’s death any more tragic than anyone else that has has there life stolen?

Do any of the board conservatives have any ideas on how to stop illegal immigration? Keep in mind, illegals committ crime at a lower rate then citizens. But some here never let political brownie points go.

Yes:
1. a wall with drone patrols and armed turrets
2. the loss of business license for ANY employer found to have illegals working for them
3. the end of sanctuary cities
4. immediate deportation of any and all illegals with a permanent flag to never be allowed in the U.S. for any reason

There's a start.

Cost of #1? Where is that money to come from?

Since when does the left care about how something is going to be paid for?

Maybe it the right here quit posting what they think the left does and does not care about.

(08-22-2018 05:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

Maybe if the farm where the suspect worked actually used the E-Verify system this tragedy might have been avoided. A farm owned by a prominent GOP family.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/mol...ystem.html

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

And if they weren't here they wouldn't be doing it. Don't know why that is such a hard concept.

I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

Has anyone said "open borders"? Have people said a wall is not the answer yes but that does not mean they believe in open borders.

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

I think no one is answering because that argument isn’t one being seriously offered by anyone here, at least that I’ve seen.

(08-22-2018 05:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

I think no one is answering because that argument isn’t one being seriously offered by anyone here, at least that I’ve seen.

so tell us skirt genius, how is that argument not valid to the topic.....

you, like all other dippos, never provide anything worth responding to other than line 4.....

I can play this/your game all day.....and you're my biatch right now....

(08-22-2018 01:52 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 01:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 01:13 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:37 AM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Source?

U.S. Sentencing Commission. In 2016, 22% of murder convictions were illegals, despite them only being ~4% of the general population.

https://www.ussc.gov/

It is amazing that you want to call the MSM fake news but you swallow whatever Fox News shoves down your throat.

Tucker Carlson intentionally mislead with those stats. The numbers are not new now nor were they new when Tucker report on them in 2017. Here are links to previous reports:

2016:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

2015:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

2014:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

2007:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files...able09.pdf

The numbers you've used are the non-citizen rates for particular convictions, e.g. 22.6% of all federal convictions for murder were by non-citizens. Notice anything about those murder numbers? 84 total murders in the U.S. seems low right. It is because it only accounts for federal convictions, and this data is overall discussing the federal prison population. In fact, in the U.S. in 2016 there were more than 17,000 murder convictions.

Federal prison population is skewed towards non-citizens because illegal immigration is a federal crime, so these numbers are not even representative of the larger prison population.

Tucker’s argument that is "Non citizens commit 22% more murder" because there are 19 non-citizens that have murder convictions in federal prison, which accounts for less than 0.5% of all U.S. murder convictions. I call that Fake News.

Federal convictions are federal convictions. What better metric is there? Such a dumb argument.

Also, I'll give Mr_XcentricK the opportunity to retract and disavow, otherwise he will be known from now on as a plagiarist, as his previous post is copied word for word, from this Reddit forum.

Do your own research and come up with your own thoughts, man. Come on. That was pathetic.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comm...istics_us/

You actually believe that someone as patently dishonest as Mr X is worried about being called a plagiarist? Mr "I'm not a leftist I'm a centrist" yet takes the far left stance more often than not? The same poster who makes up things like the right committing violence at anti-Obama protests and refuses to admit he was wrong when asked to produce evidence of said claims? Hell he'll think being known as a plagiarist is an honor.

You think because I comment on a few threads here you know my entire position?

So it is your claim now that there was now violence committed by conservatives during Obama's 8 years in office?

I have already address the reddit post, but let me ask; do you cite who created all the video and memes you post Mr. Self-thinker?

(08-22-2018 04:17 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Why isn't Fox News all over the stories of women who are raped & murdered by citizens, then? They're more concerned about this guy's immigration status than the crime.

Perhaps because this has been a big ass story for weeks.

But if you'd put down your crying hankie you've been using because of the "attacks" on your beloved illegal alien you'll see that Fox News frequently has multiple stories about high profile crimes. Here's just a couple recent ones.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/man...ships.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/22/lat...odies.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/21/gol...s-say.html

(08-22-2018 05:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

I think no one is answering because that argument isn’t one being seriously offered by anyone here, at least that I’ve seen.

There is only 1 reason why Dems want rampant illegal immigration, VOTES.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(08-22-2018 05:44 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

I think no one is answering because that argument isn’t one being seriously offered by anyone here, at least that I’ve seen.

There is only 1 reason why Dems want rampant illegal immigration, VOTES.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t want rampant illegal immigration, and I don’t want illegal voters. Sorry to disappoint.

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

(08-22-2018 05:52 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:44 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I’ll ask again since none of you liberals will answer.

WHY DO YOU WANT OPEN BORDERS?

I shout because you seem to always defend the illegals but never explain exactly why.

I think no one is answering because that argument isn’t one being seriously offered by anyone here, at least that I’ve seen.

There is only 1 reason why Dems want rampant illegal immigration, VOTES.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t want rampant illegal immigration, and I don’t want illegal voters. Sorry to disappoint.

Then what is your position?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(08-22-2018 05:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:54 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 12:48 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Those of you blaming this on illegal immigration are completely missing the forest for the trees.
A friend who lives close to where Mollie Tibbetts lived posted this today - it is the most appropriate response I've seen to this tragedy.

This afternoon, when walking to my car, a man appeared behind me in the parking garage. He walked two or three steps behind me - well in my space. I cursed myself for not holding my keys, the way we women have been trained to do, between my knuckles to strike if necessary. For a few moments, I was terrified.

This man didn’t harm me, and was guilty of no more than being oblivious to personal space. Still, women have to think every day about protecting themselves from men.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this story (and forgive me if I mess up the details) A professor asked the young men to tell the class what they do to protect themselves from rape. The men laughed nervously. The question seemed ludicrous. The professor asked the young women the same question and they easily rattled off dozens of answers: park near streetlights, check under car before getting in, hold keys between knuckles... This is just part of being a woman.

When I got home and opened the news, my heart broke to see that Mollie Tibbetts’s body had been found. This story is local to me. A young Iowa woman went for a jog and wound up dead. Women should be able to walk home after dark, park in the first spot they see, have drinks in a bar, or go for a jog without being harmed by men.

The news, our senators, our governor, and the vice president (among others, I’m sure) are making this an immigration issue.

This isn’t a immigration issue. This is a men are hurting and raping and killing women issue. How do we make them stop?

If immigration laws had been followed with this murderer, would Mollie Tibbetts still be alive today? Women have rapists and murderers that are a threat to them in this country that are here legally. To allow that number of potential threats to our daughters and wives to be increased by allowing people that should not even be in this country is wrong, bad wrong. It amazes me people can't understand that point. Once again, if this illegal immigrant that committed this horrendous murder, who shouldn't have even been in this country, not been here, would that beautiful, sweet woman, Mollie Tibbetts, still be alive today?

1 million things could have kept him from doing this, or even seeing her that day. He could have been stopped at a red light, he could’ve worked late that day, he could have stopped to go to the bathroom, anything.

He was checked through e-verify by his employer, but he gave them fake ID. You would think that a company owned by a Republican senator would be able to sort that out, but....

Again, this woman's death isn't an immigration issue; it's an issue of why men do this, whether they are here illegally or not? The majority of illegal immigrants wouldn't have done a thing to this girl - contrary to Trump's rants.

To use a phrase gun fanatics are so fond of using, Immigrants (illegal or legal) don’t hurt people; people who want to rape and murder do.

Wrong.

An illegal alien murdered an American citizen. If the illegal was not here the person would not be murdered.

Period.

We don't live in a perfect world and not even a wall will stop illegal immigration.

But maybe if the farm that employed him had used E-verify he would not have been able to work. You know like with gun control, why don't we enforce the laws we already have.