(08-01-2018 08:44 PM)Pat125 Wrote:  I'm not a fan of Urban Meyer, but l'm not sure what he could have done. First, he may not have known about it. Also, from what I read, police have intervened several times, and apparantly law enforcement was not able to protect Courtney Smith. I'm not sure if this is covered under Title IX, unless Ms. Smith was a student or employee of Ohio State. If she was, then Meyer's wife, since she is an employee of OSU, had an obligation to report the incident, not to her husband, but to the Title IX Office.

So I voted no. But since this is not ten years ago, perhaps Meyer is on his way out.

Wow - just wow. He knew in 2009, had his mentor bully the pregnant wife into staying in the marriage and then knew again in 2015 and did nothing. His wife is a nurse and did nothing. Columbus is too big of a city and Ohio is too big of a State for Urban to survive this.

(08-01-2018 08:29 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 03:34 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Meyer has always been a piece of crap.

Because theyve only ever had men in halos coaching at Arkansas... Don't be a donkey.

No. Because when he was at Florida his teams set records for the most players arrested. He's always placed winning over everything else. But in today's world. He can't hide any longer.

(08-01-2018 08:58 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  Urban deserves the Art Briles treatment

Baylor owed a duty to the female students under Title IX even if no criminal charges were pursued.
I am unaware of a similar duty to a spouse when an employee is abusive, especially when there is no prosecution.

Briles literally placed the future of Baylor in danger because serious Title IX sanctions could have made the university no longer financially viable.
Meyer just embarassed the hell out of Ohio State.

Ohio State's contract with Meyer almost assuredly covers this situation to permit a for cause firing but it is a significantly different case.

I don't think he will be fired. I have no insight about who really runs the TOSU athletic department but if it is the university administration, he may be let go. If it is the boosters, nope. Also, remember what happened at Arkansas when Bobby Pertrino was let go after his scandal. Granted, I don't think Day, Schiano or Wilson is on the John L. Smith level of clueless, but this potential coaching change can set a program back a few years.

(08-01-2018 10:38 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I don't think he will be fired. I have no insight about who really runs the TOSU athletic department but if it is the university administration, he may be let go. If it is the boosters, nope. Also, remember what happened at Arkansas when Bobby Pertrino was let go after his scandal. Granted, I don't think Day, Schiano or Wilson is on the John L. Smith level of clueless, but this potential coaching change can set a program back a few years.

When Tressel was ousted he was told by the school president and AD to resign. I would expect the same to happen to Urban if things get worse.

Lets not forget that Ohio State is also investigation of the sex assault claims by several wrestlers back in the late 80s early 90s, and an ex-assistant wrestling coach knew about it. That former coach is Republican Jim Jordan. He is being accused of doing what Urban did. If there are more proof that both of them knew and did nothing? They both are goners no matter what. The can of worms is being spilled now maybe with the whole coaching and athletics department on which coach knew and did not know what went down with sexual assault claims. I do think many more athletes might come out of the woodwork making claims about coaches from the past and present on what they either know or not know about these issues. The case with the wrestlers was that OSU started the investigations in March. I think all coaches in April had to sign the contract extension in reflection of the claims from the former wrestlers of Ohio State.

(08-01-2018 09:33 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:44 PM)Pat125 Wrote:  I'm not a fan of Urban Meyer, but l'm not sure what he could have done. First, he may not have known about it. Also, from what I read, police have intervened several times, and apparantly law enforcement was not able to protect Courtney Smith. I'm not sure if this is covered under Title IX, unless Ms. Smith was a student or employee of Ohio State. If she was, then Meyer's wife, since she is an employee of OSU, had an obligation to report the incident, not to her husband, but to the Title IX Office.

So I voted no. But since this is not ten years ago, perhaps Meyer is on his way out.

Wow - just wow. He knew in 2009, had his mentor bully the pregnant wife into staying in the marriage and then knew again in 2015 and did nothing. His wife is a nurse and did nothing. Columbus is too big of a city and Ohio is too big of a State for Urban to survive this.

I'm only going by what I read. In 2009, to my understanding, the police investigated the incident and found no evidence of abuse, or perhaps Courtney Smith decided not to press charges. Further, this abusive behavior apparently happened for nine years, with several instances of police intervention, yet no charges filed, Ms. Smith stayed in the marriage for six of those years, and Zach Smith was somehow still allowed to see his children for three more years. So law enforcement was not able to do anything for 9 years, but Meyer was?

If Meyer really did know, and further, had his mentor bully Ms. Smith, he clearly should be fired. But it appears that Courtney Smith was let down by people that should have been able to do something. I find that more unfortunate and disturbing.

(08-02-2018 05:48 AM)Pat125 Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 09:33 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:44 PM)Pat125 Wrote:  I'm not a fan of Urban Meyer, but l'm not sure what he could have done. First, he may not have known about it. Also, from what I read, police have intervened several times, and apparantly law enforcement was not able to protect Courtney Smith. I'm not sure if this is covered under Title IX, unless Ms. Smith was a student or employee of Ohio State. If she was, then Meyer's wife, since she is an employee of OSU, had an obligation to report the incident, not to her husband, but to the Title IX Office.

So I voted no. But since this is not ten years ago, perhaps Meyer is on his way out.

Wow - just wow. He knew in 2009, had his mentor bully the pregnant wife into staying in the marriage and then knew again in 2015 and did nothing. His wife is a nurse and did nothing. Columbus is too big of a city and Ohio is too big of a State for Urban to survive this.

I'm only going by what I read. In 2009, to my understanding, the police investigated the incident and found no evidence of abuse, or perhaps Courtney Smith decided not to press charges. Further, this abusive behavior apparently happened for nine years, with several instances of police intervention, yet no charges filed, Ms. Smith stayed in the marriage for six of those years, and Zach Smith was somehow still allowed to see his children for three more years. So law enforcement was not able to do anything for 9 years, but Meyer was?

If Meyer really did know, and further, had his mentor bully Ms. Smith, he clearly should be fired. But it appears that Courtney Smith was let down by people that should have been able to do something. I find that more unfortunate and disturbing.

Be careful...you are starting to make the case that some PSU fans made about the Paterno situation. The State College police didn't do anything in 1998...and the PA Attorney General didn't do anything for years (2006-2011) while they sat on this information. Who knows how many more people Sandusky abused in those years?

But Paterno was the biggest villain in all this.

This OSU scandal is not on the PSU level by any stretch but the same logic that took Paterno down should be used to take Meyer down too.

Well, Art Briles just got a football coaching job

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt...66180.html

Urban's job is in the hands of NCAA sanctions. He is probably on administrative leave while Ohio State checks on the backlash from the NCAA if they keep him. Right now he has one National Championship at Ohio State and is currently stacked and primed for the chance for a couple more National Championships with the recruits he has in the stable. If the NCAA takes no action on this situation or only slaps the university on the wrists for a couple of scholarships for a couple of years then Urban stays as long as Ohio State keeps winning and bringing home National Championships. Ohio State will bite the bullet on any initial negative PR and let the on field results heal all wounds. The current leave is probably in affect while the AD and President check this out.

(08-02-2018 10:45 AM)panite Wrote:  Urban's job is in the hands of NCAA sanctions. He is probably on administrative leave while Ohio State checks on the backlash from the NCAA if they keep him. Right now he has one National Championship at Ohio State and is currently stacked and primed for the chance for a couple more National Championships with the recruits he has in the stable. If the NCAA takes no action on this situation or only slaps the university on the wrists for a couple of scholarships for a couple of years then Urban stays as long as Ohio State keeps winning and bringing home National Championships. Ohio State will bite the bullet on any initial negative PR and let the on field results heal all wounds. The current leave is probably in affect while the AD and President check this out.

Sanctions? For what? No one is being accused of any NCAA violations.

(08-02-2018 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 10:45 AM)panite Wrote:  Urban's job is in the hands of NCAA sanctions. He is probably on administrative leave while Ohio State checks on the backlash from the NCAA if they keep him. Right now he has one National Championship at Ohio State and is currently stacked and primed for the chance for a couple more National Championships with the recruits he has in the stable. If the NCAA takes no action on this situation or only slaps the university on the wrists for a couple of scholarships for a couple of years then Urban stays as long as Ohio State keeps winning and bringing home National Championships. Ohio State will bite the bullet on any initial negative PR and let the on field results heal all wounds. The current leave is probably in affect while the AD and President check this out.

Sanctions? For what? No one is being accused of any NCAA violations.

Might not be accused yet but the university better make sure they are clear of them before they decide to keep him if they keep him. Just a matter of due diligence on their part with the current Urban lightning rod grounded while they get through their investigation and Urban can't sue them if they are paying him while this is being done.

(08-02-2018 09:59 AM)micahandme Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 05:48 AM)Pat125 Wrote:  I'm only going by what I read. In 2009, to my understanding, the police investigated the incident and found no evidence of abuse, or perhaps Courtney Smith decided not to press charges. Further, this abusive behavior apparently happened for nine years, with several instances of police intervention, yet no charges filed, Ms. Smith stayed in the marriage for six of those years, and Zach Smith was somehow still allowed to see his children for three more years. So law enforcement was not able to do anything for 9 years, but Meyer was?

If Meyer really did know, and further, had his mentor bully Ms. Smith, he clearly should be fired. But it appears that Courtney Smith was let down by people that should have been able to do something. I find that more unfortunate and disturbing.

Be careful...you are starting to make the case that some PSU fans made about the Paterno situation. The State College police didn't do anything in 1998...and the PA Attorney General didn't do anything for years (2006-2011) while they sat on this information. Who knows how many more people Sandusky abused in those years?

But Paterno was the biggest villain in all this.

This OSU scandal is not on the PSU level by any stretch but the same logic that took Paterno down should be used to take Meyer down too.

I'm trying to be careful, because I don't want anything I say to be somehow misconstrued that I could possibly endorse the behavior that Zach Smith is accused of, or covering up such egregious acts, because I absolutely do not. If Coach Meyer knew what was going on, and he looked the other way, then he should be fired, and possibly subject to criminal prosecution.

Regarding PSU, I don't remember what you said about the PA AG's Office. But if that's true, then the villains in order of rank are:
1) Sandusky
2) The AG Office
3) PSU Personnel including Paterno
I assume persons in the AG Office were prosecuted for their egregious negligence, because that office more than anyone else had the power to stop Sandusky, and apparently failed to do so until years after. No, this does NOT excuse Paterno, who apparently failed to do what he should have done, legally and morally.

Same with Coach Meyer. No matter how inept, corrupt, or negligent the Columbus law enforcement was, if Meyer failed to do what he should have done, then he should be fired, if not more. But, again from what I read, law enforcement knew of this ongoing behavior for nine years, and unless I missed it in any of the articles I read, Zach Smith was never thrown in jail, given probation, or even arrested. Further, even after the divorce, this violent individual was somehow legally able to be in contact with his children, and to still be in contact with his ex-wife.

The point of reporting incidents such as these is so that they can be investigated. And apparently, in spite of Meyer or not, they were. And yet, nothing was apparently done about it. So there is plenty of fault to go around here. This includes the police, the DA's Office, and probably some judges who apparently allowed this violence against Courtney Smith to continue.

As to whether Meyer should be fired, that's up to OSU and maybe the NCAA. It is unclear to me how much he knew regarding Smith. I suspect that after the 2009 incident in which Smith was cleared, Meyer did hear some rumblings about continued incidents of domestic violence, but such decisions shouldn't be made on such suppositions. Supposedly all the wives of the coaches, including his own, knew. If Meyer did know, then how was it that the OSU AD didn't know, or the current and previous Presidents of OSU didn't know? It seems to me that they would be just as liable. Or what if, somehow, Meyer did not know. How is he supposed to report something he didn't know, or even suspect, about?

As for NCAA sanctions, it depends on what Meyer, the asst. coaches, AD staff, and the president(s), did or did not do. When PSU was penalized, there were no NCAA bylaws that dealt with this type of situation. In fact, Dr. Emmert made the determination of the penalties, bypassing the Infractions Committee. Since then, I believe bylaws were added to cover situations like this.

I've read and heard additional info so i want to change my vote to yes.

I'm kind of surprised. Love or hate him, Urban is a smart man. It's hard to believe he would risk his job over an assistant. Meyer seems like the "throw the assistant under the bus to keep the money train rolling" type.

I think if nothing else comes out, he will fine. If any evidence he lied to bosses, legal authorities, or NCAA though he will be out. I'm leaning on this being it and he'll be back but you never know how these things will go when they get going.

I actually always had some sympathy for JoePa in all that. Firing was the correct coarse there, but I do believe he never believed what was going on actually was. It's a trap most people will fall into even if not one we publicly acknowledge. If you know someone a long time and think you know them well and someone else acuses them of something, you are far more likely to take their word until the evidence is overwhelming. That doesn't excuse not fully looking into, but it is any easy trap for people to fall into.

That is not justification of anything, but explains why things happen when it seems like they should not be able to. In the case of Penn State, I thought that meant there was still plenty of room for firing JoePa, but also fpr recognizing what he meant to the school (which is why people still defend him).

In the case of my school, we'll see. This was an adult, not a child and the question is ultimately what should Meyer have done and how bad of a breech was him not doing something. I have not kept up on all details, but seems biggest thing was keeping him on staff (given police were aware of incidents). That to me is not fireable, but other things added in do make firing justifiable (but not at this point mandatory). Absent more than I have seen, I think he should be OK, but we'll see what comes out.

(08-03-2018 09:43 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually always had some sympathy for JoePa in all that. Firing was the correct coarse there, but I do believe he never believed what was going on actually was. It's a trap most people will fall into even if not one we publicly acknowledge. If you know someone a long time and think you know them well and someone else acuses them of something, you are far more likely to take their word until the evidence is overwhelming. That doesn't excuse not fully looking into, but it is any easy trap for people to fall into.

That is not justification of anything, but explains why things happen when it seems like they should not be able to. In the case of Penn State, I thought that meant there was still plenty of room for firing JoePa, but also fpr recognizing what he meant to the school (which is why people still defend him).

In the case of my school, we'll see. This was an adult, not a child and the question is ultimately what should Meyer have done and how bad of a breech was him not doing something. I have not kept up on all details, but seems biggest thing was keeping him on staff (given police were aware of incidents). That to me is not fireable, but other things added in do make firing justifiable (but not at this point mandatory). Absent more than I have seen, I think he should be OK, but we'll see what comes out.

I think tOSU has made it clear they want to keep Meyer. The formation of an "independent" committee that has 3 of 6 members from the Board of Trustees leads me to believe that.

Also, committees are known for dragging things out, which could mean the media heat dies down, again facilitating a decision to keep him.

(08-03-2018 09:43 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually always had some sympathy for JoePa in all that. Firing was the correct coarse there, but I do believe he never believed what was going on actually was. It's a trap most people will fall into even if not one we publicly acknowledge. If you know someone a long time and think you know them well and someone else acuses them of something, you are far more likely to take their word until the evidence is overwhelming. That doesn't excuse not fully looking into, but it is any easy trap for people to fall into.

That is not justification of anything, but explains why things happen when it seems like they should not be able to. In the case of Penn State, I thought that meant there was still plenty of room for firing JoePa, but also fpr recognizing what he meant to the school (which is why people still defend him).

He knew. For a long time. So did his long-term staff, and many other people at that institution. Their actions reflected their priorities, and dozens of children were serially raped.

(08-03-2018 09:43 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually always had some sympathy for JoePa in all that. Firing was the correct coarse there, but I do believe he never believed what was going on actually was. It's a trap most people will fall into even if not one we publicly acknowledge. If you know someone a long time and think you know them well and someone else acuses them of something, you are far more likely to take their word until the evidence is overwhelming. That doesn't excuse not fully looking into, but it is any easy trap for people to fall into.

That is not justification of anything, but explains why things happen when it seems like they should not be able to. In the case of Penn State, I thought that meant there was still plenty of room for firing JoePa, but also fpr recognizing what he meant to the school (which is why people still defend him).

In the case of my school, we'll see. This was an adult, not a child and the question is ultimately what should Meyer have done and how bad of a breech was him not doing something. I have not kept up on all details, but seems biggest thing was keeping him on staff (given police were aware of incidents). That to me is not fireable, but other things added in do make firing justifiable (but not at this point mandatory). Absent more than I have seen, I think he should be OK, but we'll see what comes out.

There is a pattern going back to his time at least at Florida. Urban has sheltered those he felt were important to the program and more than just Smith.

But, it is a transgression common to results oriented type jobs. If you have assembled a group of people with a unique set of skills that have a synergy greater than their own individual abilities and that team routinely produces at a high level you will naturally be inclined to overlook peripheral issues to keep the focus and to keep that team together.

Sadly, this can cause management (in this case Meyer) to overlook moral, ethical, and legal constraints and mandates. Their world takes precedence over the real one. Then, either sooner or later, it is crashed by the greater reality.

***And in the case of Smith he was a recruiter. The extreme minority of programs that compete seriously in the P5 are lily white when it comes to recruiting. And those recruiters who have stayed with a prime head coach know all the tricks, all the dirt, and where all the bodies are buried, when it comes to recruitment. Meyer could easily have been over the proverbial barrel when it came to protecting Smith because Smith might well hold a plethora of damaging secrets where Urban is concerned.

Every wonder why schools keep retired head coaches around in paid made up positions? Same reason.

(08-01-2018 03:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 02:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  He is too important and worth too much money.

I am too unsure to put my name behind either.

It's bad but not Penn State bad.

This.

Only I would add that I'm suspicious that given the other issues at Ohio State pertaining to the rape claims of athletes in other sports that the University could pull the ploy of firing the A.D., and reprimanding Meyer. Right now the A.D. would make one helluva convenient scapegoat.

That's going to be very hard to pull off. Meyer kept the guy on at Florida then rehired him at OSU. If Gene Smith knew and didn't report it, then he should go too. But I don't see how you're going to get rid of Smith and retain Meyer. There would be significant protests (although not a majority) of Ohio State students.