Maybe Meyer’s wife will fall on the grenade and say she never told him.

Campbell and Stoops will definitely be thrown around if Meyer is fired/resigns.

I could see the interest in Shaw because he’s maintained success at Stanford despite academic restrictions. Same with Fitzgerald. Both of those guys are coaching their Alma Mater though.

I wouldn’t count out a guy like Justin Fuente either; guys that have no real loyalty to a power conference program.

Seems like with the formation of this six-person committee, Ohio State is trying to stall the decision such that media attention will die down, and it will be easier for them to keep Urban, which IMO is obviously what they want to do.

The press release says that tOSU has formed an "independent committee" to investigate, but three of the six members are on the Board of Trustees so in what way are they "independent"? Independent from what?

We'll see if it works ...

(08-03-2018 07:17 AM)esayem Wrote:  Maybe Meyer’s wife will fall on the grenade and say she never told him.

Campbell and Stoops will definitely be thrown around if Meyer is fired/resigns.

I could see the interest in Shaw because he’s maintained success at Stanford despite academic restrictions. Same with Fitzgerald. Both of those guys are coaching their Alma Mater though.

I wouldn’t count out a guy like Justin Fuente either; guys that have no real loyalty to a power conference program.

Pretty much the only way I could have even less respect for Urban in all this is if he lets his wife take the fall.

Man up, Urban.

The real problem OSU has is if this gets amplified with the Wrestling scandal. There are actual lawsuits swirling around. And the fact that one of the potential witnesses is currently angling to be Speaker of the House is going to ensure that this scandal continues to be in the papers.

Adding a wife beating scandal on top of that.....This doesn't look good at all.

Its possible Meyer weathers the storm, but the timing of it....yipes. I think its equally likely that the President loses his job too when they decide to settle the wrestling lawsuit and make a commitment to at least appear to clean up the AD at OSU. And I don't think this is going to age well either. Obviously its football and not politics, but OSU is a public institution, and there are likely to be political pressures depending upon which way the elections go. Neither look good for OSU. Dems have a good year, and OSU is now looking at a Dem Governor, and one far more sympathetic to the me too movement. Dems have a 'meh' year, and then OSU is looking at half the country trying to paint Jordan (who would be a very high ranking House member in that case) and OSU with the wrestling scandal at full roar. Regardless about how one feels about the charges or politics, I think the political environment is going to do Meyer in even if he could have survived otherwise, and will possibly take the University President down too.

(08-03-2018 09:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like with the formation of this six-person committee, Ohio State is trying to stall the decision such that media attention will die down, and it will be easier for them to keep Urban, which IMO is obviously what they want to do.

It's not that clear. They prefer to keep Meyer if they can, because they want to win football games at almost any cost. But what the administration will want most is to have enough information and internal support to justify the final decision, whichever way it goes. Making justifiable decisions on big matters, versus making decisions that turn out to be obviously wrong, is what lets university presidents stay in their job as long as possible and to get another good job after that, versus being forced out early and getting only much less prestigious jobs from that point on.

(08-03-2018 03:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 09:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like with the formation of this six-person committee, Ohio State is trying to stall the decision such that media attention will die down, and it will be easier for them to keep Urban, which IMO is obviously what they want to do.

It's not that clear. They prefer to keep Meyer if they can, because they want to win football games at almost any cost. But what the administration will want most is to have enough information and internal support to justify the final decision, whichever way it goes. Making justifiable decisions on big matters, versus making decisions that turn out to be obviously wrong, is what lets university presidents stay in their job as long as possible and to get another good job after that, versus being forced out early and getting only much less prestigious jobs from that point on.

The media will still crucify Ohio State regardless of what decision is made.

There is an un-discussed sticky wicket here. Smith was a recruiter and had been for sometime. If there is any assistant on a team that knows the ins an outs of what the program does to recruit it's one of the recruiters. He knows what the school offers that is legal, what is marginal, and what is illegal. Virtually none of the top programs in the nation are clean. Some have political cover, some have approach things with more sophisticated misdirection than others, but no matter what the method is the recruiters know what it is.

For a big name head coach turning on one of his long time recruiters and assistants can be a very dangerous thing to do. That's why if a problem develops with one you need time to promote them out. Urban probably should have done that long ago. By the time Smith became a hot potato politically it was too late to sell him to somebody else so Urban had to take his antacids and hope. That's a bad situation to be in.

Some of these guys get cushy jobs with boosters so that they can be moved out and moved on.

And sometimes Universities have the same problems with Head Coaches. That's why many of them get cushy jobs at the schools they retire from and practically keep those positions until they die. They know too much.

So Urban is in a tough spot. When confronted with Smith's issues he was either not able to unload him or chose not to. Either way he's stuck with the decision. Still there's so much going on at Ohio State that a new A.D. and/or President might be in the offing. But usually 3 scalps aren't required so Urban may be odd man out.

(08-03-2018 03:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 09:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like with the formation of this six-person committee, Ohio State is trying to stall the decision such that media attention will die down, and it will be easier for them to keep Urban, which IMO is obviously what they want to do.

It's not that clear. They prefer to keep Meyer if they can, because they want to win football games at almost any cost. But what the administration will want most is to have enough information and internal support to justify the final decision, whichever way it goes. Making justifiable decisions on big matters, versus making decisions that turn out to be obviously wrong, is what lets university presidents stay in their job as long as possible and to get another good job after that, versus being forced out early and getting only much less prestigious jobs from that point on.

No question, the President wanted to hand this hot potato over to a committee to provide the cover you describe. Nevetheless, the composition of the committee is instructive, as all savvy admins will try to appoint panels that will reach their preferred conclusion.

Of course, the artistry in that is in doing it without the public thinking you are doing it. In this case, the admins have managed to convince much of the media to describe the committee as independent, even though half the members are on the board of trustees.

(08-03-2018 05:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  There is an un-discussed sticky wicket here. Smith was a recruiter and had been for sometime. If there is any assistant on a team that knows the ins an outs of what the program does to recruit it's one of the recruiters. He knows what the school offers that is legal, what is marginal, and what is illegal. Virtually none of the top programs in the nation are clean. Some have political cover, some have approach things with more sophisticated misdirection than others, but no matter what the method is the recruiters know what it is.

For a big name head coach turning on one of his long time recruiters and assistants can be a very dangerous thing to do. That's why if a problem develops with one you need time to promote them out. Urban probably should have done that long ago. By the time Smith became a hot potato politically it was too late to sell him to somebody else so Urban had to take his antacids and hope. That's a bad situation to be in.

Some of these guys get cushy jobs with boosters so that they can be moved out and moved on.

And sometimes Universities have the same problems with Head Coaches. That's why many of them get cushy jobs at the schools they retire from and practically keep those positions until they die. They know too much.

So Urban is in a tough spot. When confronted with Smith's issues he was either not able to unload him or chose not to. Either way he's stuck with the decision. Still there's so much going on at Ohio State that a new A.D. and/or President might be in the offing. But usually 3 scalps aren't required so Urban may be odd man out.

The wheel that spins within college athletics, namely football and men's basketball, has many corruptible spokes. High-stakes financial decisions, with near and long-term risks/rewards, can attract many morally-questionable personalities. None of the top programs are clean. The public only managed to get wind of this story because Brett McMurphy, on his own dime, decided to do some digging (and was able to catch Urban in a lie).

I don't think Urban Meyer is a bad person. Many current and former players speak highly of him. Unfortunately, this and Aaron Hernandez will always be part of his legacy (as will his multiple national championships). Ultimately, football head coaches, and many men's basketball coaches, are unofficially CEOs of the university. They are as responsible for its image and reputation as they are winning games and competing for championships. If you say the wrong thing in an interview, fail to disclose certain facts about an incident, or was even unaware of said incident, all can be used as grounds for dismissal.

Most importantly, as reminded with many scandals uncovered through media today, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If Meyer gets dismissed due to public outcry, and it is determined that could not fire Smith due to lack of charges, evidence, etc., that would be equally as bad as the allegations being brought forward. The media and the public like to act as judge and jury, but there is a reason we have a legal system. Institutions and organizations often get into more trouble when they try to act as legal/moral authorities in the please the public.

ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse claims from Smith's wife:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

...resignation to follow?

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

Confession follows the smoking gun

McMurphy posts more after Urban's statement and Smith's radio interview today in which he claimed that he never abused his ex-wife. He posted an alledged text exchange between the Smiths.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Brett_McMurph...0578939904

McMurphy seem to have the receipts.

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

Looks like he's going to trot out the "I accept full responsibility" (whatever that means) ploy ... the popular and effective modern day crisis management strategy. I bet it works.

(08-03-2018 09:42 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

Looks like he's going to trot out the "I accept full responsibility" (whatever that means) ploy ... the popular and effective modern day crisis management strategy. I bet it works.

I do not think he will last long either. Ohio State do not want to look more like Penn. State, Baylor of Florida State sweeping things under the rug for rape and all that culture. All three are still in hot trouble for their issues. Ohio State also in hot trouble as well. Just like the Dixie Chicks song "Goodbye Earl"? The song would be renamed "Goodbye Urban"! We need to hold these coaches under the hot seat for much longer. Tressell, Briles, Meyers and others should never coach again at the FBS level anymore.

(08-03-2018 09:42 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

Looks like he's going to trot out the "I accept full responsibility" (whatever that means) ploy ... the popular and effective modern day crisis management strategy. I bet it works.

The tweet Meyer sent out Friday is pretty bold. He concedes that he "misspoke", however you want to say it, at the B1G press conference, he did in fact know about the 2015 abuse allegations in 2015. But, he also says that not only did he know back then, he also Did the Right Thing and reported it as he was required to!

That itself raises some issues. First, it makes it harder for Ohio State to fire him "for cause" in a legal sense and thereby avoid paying him the whopping $40 million left on his contract.

Second, it also makes Ohio State look bad, because if Meyer did report the abuse allegations up the chain of command back in 2015 (and Zach Smith also said Friday that the Athletic Director knew of the abuse allegations then as well), then why was nothing done about it by the Ohio State higher-ups? Why was Zach Smith still employed for the next three years up until last week? The only plausible explanation is that these higher-ups investigated the abuse claims in 2015 after Meyer reported it but the investigation exonerated Smith - which almost beggars belief on both counts.

Third, it also begs the question of, regardless of what any higher-ups thought, why Meyer kept Smith employed the past three years after the 2015 abuse claims, when he'd already known about Smith and the 2009 abuse claims at Florida. I mean, you can kind of justify the 2012 hire by arguing that "well, everyone deserves a second chance" or something. But how can Meyer justify keeping him on after the 2015 abuse allegations?

Meyer's statement was clever in that it did what nobody really thought he would do - admit to not telling the truth at the B1G presser. But in then claiming he also properly reported it, it actually opens up a can of worms.

Those who said there were more layers of onion to peel were correct.

The weird thing to me is why Meyer didn't let Smith go a year or two ago. It's not like this guy was really critical for his staff.

I think we need to know what the AD did or didn't do, and what he told Meyer to do, if anything.

Right now I think one of them has to go when that picture is clear, maybe both. LOL, maybe Luke Fickell will be coming back from Cincy to be the 2019 Football coach (have to think this year will go to an interim on the staff).

Das ist sehr schlecht

(08-04-2018 03:48 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The weird thing to me is why Meyer didn't let Smith go a year or two ago. It's not like this guy was really critical for his staff.

First, Smith was highly regarded as a recruiter. He has been voted "B1G recruiter of the year" at least twice by Rivals and/or Scout.

Beyond that, there's loyalty. Zach is the grandson of Earl Bruce, who Meyer worked under as a young graduate assistant when Bruce was the Ohio State head coach in the 1980s, Meyer's first job in college football. According to ESPN back in 2012, Smith has known Meyer "since he was a kid" back then. Meyer has long expressed fondness for Bruce. In 2007 he said he was "in awe" of Bruce when he worked for him at Ohio State, and Meyer spoke at Bruce's 'life celebration' earlier this year after Bruce died, here's what Meyer said about Bruce a few months ago:

"I stand humbled and appreciative that God chose Earle Bruce and my father to serve as my mentors and guide and teach me along this incredible journey. There will never be a day that I'm not grateful and appreciative to the Bruce family for allowing me to be part of your family for the past 32 years."

In 2002, Zach Smith walked on to the Bowling Green football team when Meyer was in his second year as the head coach.. Zach then joined Meyer in 2004 at Florida as a "quality control" Coach, and worked for him as a graduate assistant from 2007 - 2009.

So the ties between Smith and Meyer run deep, almost as close as can be without being actual family.

Quo,

That probably explains the blind spot. Meyer saw Smith daily and as buddies going back heard his side all the time, to the point he may have come to believe Smith's wife was the nutcase. And there was probably feedback similar from others (do not know what the wives actually said about her). Perhaps also Meyer thought the problem would go away after the separation. No excuse though. What a mess.

It doesn't look good for Meyer or the AD. The OC and some other coaches may get canned as well. They are going to wind up flushing some guys who had nothing to do with this, as that always happens. (Meyer is wealthy, so he'll be fine, probably wind up a TV analyst in a couple years)

At least Urban Meyer has one ally in his pocket
https://sports.yahoo.com/jay-paterno-ohi...20057.html