(08-04-2018 06:08 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  At least Urban Meyer has one ally in his pocket
https://sports.yahoo.com/jay-paterno-ohi...20057.html

Not surprising that he only cares about the coach and not the victim.

(08-04-2018 03:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 09:42 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

Looks like he's going to trot out the "I accept full responsibility" (whatever that means) ploy ... the popular and effective modern day crisis management strategy. I bet it works.

The tweet Meyer sent out Friday is pretty bold. He concedes that he "misspoke", however you want to say it, at the B1G press conference, he did in fact know about the 2015 abuse allegations in 2015. But, he also says that not only did he know back then, he also Did the Right Thing and reported it as he was required to!

That itself raises some issues. First, it makes it harder for Ohio State to fire him "for cause" in a legal sense and thereby avoid paying him the whopping $40 million left on his contract.

Second, it also makes Ohio State look bad, because if Meyer did report the abuse allegations up the chain of command back in 2015 (and Zach Smith also said Friday that the Athletic Director knew of the abuse allegations then as well), then why was nothing done about it by the Ohio State higher-ups? Why was Zach Smith still employed for the next three years up until last week? The only plausible explanation is that these higher-ups investigated the abuse claims in 2015 after Meyer reported it but the investigation exonerated Smith - which almost beggars belief on both counts.

Third, it also begs the question of, regardless of what any higher-ups thought, why Meyer kept Smith employed the past three years after the 2015 abuse claims, when he'd already known about Smith and the 2009 abuse claims at Florida. I mean, you can kind of justify the 2012 hire by arguing that "well, everyone deserves a second chance" or something. But how can Meyer justify keeping him on after the 2015 abuse allegations?

Meyer's statement was clever in that it did what nobody really thought he would do - admit to not telling the truth at the B1G presser. But in then claiming he also properly reported it, it actually opens up a can of worms.

Those who said there were more layers of onion to peel were correct.

That's not the only plausible explanation.

It's just as plausible, and I would argue more plausible based on what we know from McMurphy's reporting, that the AD and perhaps others looked the other way to avoid a PR nightmare. And it would have been a nightmare because Smith never should have been hired in the first place. A simple background check would have turned up police reports from the past.

I think even more likely than that...they looked the other way because Zach Smith knows where the bodies are buried. He's a big time recruiter and it's entirely possible he has information that could get OSU in major trouble with the NCAA.

If the AD knew and did nothing about it then his head is on the chopping block now too.

There's no doubt that Urban had an affection for Smith based on how deep the roots run, but that doesn't absolve him.

(08-03-2018 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN says Meyer now saying his BIG press conference denials were not correct, he admits he did know about 2015 abuse claims from Smith's wife:


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...zach-smith

As I said earlier, toast.

All of this piling on before the facts are fully known makes me wonder: do any of you guys have a close-enough friend or a valuable enough employee that you'd exercise a bit of patience and restraint trying to salvage his reputation, marriage, and productivity before finally conceding he's a hopeless case? Or would you just throw him under the bus at the first (or second or third...) hint of a transgression and move on? I'm sure as hell no fan of OSU, and like many of you, I'm ambivalent about Urban Meyer as a human being (well, except to believe that he, like most every other successful coach, is grossly over-paid). Did he either bend or overtly trash any rules? Did he look the other way too long? Is he totally innocent and worthy of exoneration? I just don't know, and neither do any of the rest of us. Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are known?

(08-04-2018 08:54 AM)colohank Wrote:  All of this piling on before the facts are fully known makes me wonder: do any of you guys have a close-enough friend or a valuable enough employee that you'd exercise a bit of patience and restraint trying to salvage his reputation, marriage, and productivity before finally conceding he's a hopeless case? Or would you just throw him under the bus at the first (or second or third...) hint of a transgression and move on? I'm sure as hell no fan of OSU, and like many of you, I'm ambivalent about Urban Meyer as a human being (well, except to believe that he, like most every other successful coach, is grossly over-paid). Did he either bend or overtly trash any rules? Did he look the other way too long? Is he totally innocent and worthy of exoneration? I just don't know, and neither do any of the rest of us. Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are known?

Well, Meyer just admitted that he didn't tell the truth in the B1G press conference about when he found out about the 2015 abuse claims. And once someone is caught not telling the truth about something, IMO at that point they no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt. The 'burden of proof' shifts to them, at least in a moral sense.

(08-04-2018 09:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:54 AM)colohank Wrote:  All of this piling on before the facts are fully known makes me wonder: do any of you guys have a close-enough friend or a valuable enough employee that you'd exercise a bit of patience and restraint trying to salvage his reputation, marriage, and productivity before finally conceding he's a hopeless case? Or would you just throw him under the bus at the first (or second or third...) hint of a transgression and move on? I'm sure as hell no fan of OSU, and like many of you, I'm ambivalent about Urban Meyer as a human being (well, except to believe that he, like most every other successful coach, is grossly over-paid). Did he either bend or overtly trash any rules? Did he look the other way too long? Is he totally innocent and worthy of exoneration? I just don't know, and neither do any of the rest of us. Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are known?

Well, Meyer just admitted that he didn't tell the truth in the B1G press conference about when he found out about the 2015 abuse claims. And once someone is caught not telling the truth about something, IMO at that point they no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt. The 'burden of proof' shifts to them, at least in a moral sense.

What's more here Quo is that Smith got caught lying yesterday. After making statements that he had never abused his wife, McMurphy released a short series of tweets between Smith and his wife in which Smith admitted to strangling her twice.

No way Meyer survives this now. Only question is who takes over and how this impacts OSU's season this year and whether the AD and the University President get tossed as well. My guess is that the AD is probably looking at 50-50. The University President probably needs to jettison Meyer quick or he could get tossed too.

(08-04-2018 12:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  No way Meyer survives this now. Only question is who takes over and how this impacts OSU's season this year and whether the AD and the University President get tossed as well. My guess is that the AD is probably looking at 50-50. The University President probably needs to jettison Meyer quick or he could get tossed too.

I'm thinking the only safe bet for the president is to ditch both Meyer and the A.D.. That way he distances himself from both the general scandal of sexual abuse that was protracted in its scope which exceeded this president's tenure and it makes him look proactive where Meyer is concerned.

After seeing the entire board survive at Michigan state and than the promote an AD from within, I will say Ohio state will do nothing but keep everybody. Pretty hard to overthrow a big bureaucracy

(08-04-2018 01:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 12:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  No way Meyer survives this now. Only question is who takes over and how this impacts OSU's season this year and whether the AD and the University President get tossed as well. My guess is that the AD is probably looking at 50-50. The University President probably needs to jettison Meyer quick or he could get tossed too.

I'm thinking the only safe bet for the president is to ditch both Meyer and the A.D.. That way he distances himself from both the general scandal of sexual abuse that was protracted in its scope which exceeded this president's tenure and it makes him look proactive where Meyer is concerned.

That's exactly what I predict will happen. The only question is that does the University President then have to fall on his sword.

(08-04-2018 01:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 01:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 12:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  No way Meyer survives this now. Only question is who takes over and how this impacts OSU's season this year and whether the AD and the University President get tossed as well. My guess is that the AD is probably looking at 50-50. The University President probably needs to jettison Meyer quick or he could get tossed too.

I'm thinking the only safe bet for the president is to ditch both Meyer and the A.D.. That way he distances himself from both the general scandal of sexual abuse that was protracted in its scope which exceeded this president's tenure and it makes him look proactive where Meyer is concerned.

That's exactly what I predict will happen. The only question is that does the University President then have to fall on his sword.

I don't know how long that president's tenure is at this point. If it's longer than 5 or 6 years it might be an issue. If it's not that long they probably can survive with the moves discussed.

(08-04-2018 08:54 AM)colohank Wrote:  All of this piling on before the facts are fully known makes me wonder: do any of you guys have a close-enough friend or a valuable enough employee that you'd exercise a bit of patience and restraint trying to salvage his reputation, marriage, and productivity before finally conceding he's a hopeless case? Or would you just throw him under the bus at the first (or second or third...) hint of a transgression and move on? I'm sure as hell no fan of OSU, and like many of you, I'm ambivalent about Urban Meyer as a human being (well, except to believe that he, like most every other successful coach, is grossly over-paid). Did he either bend or overtly trash any rules? Did he look the other way too long? Is he totally innocent and worthy of exoneration? I just don't know, and neither do any of the rest of us. Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are known?

Enough restraint to allow your bud to beat his wife and never do anything about it?

A decade's worth of patience that inspires a cover-up, but not enough loyalty to refrain from flipping on the guy once everything becomes public?

Telling a reporter he's a liar so you can salvage your own reputation by lying about your knowledge of events?

No, I don't have any friends I'd do all that for.

(08-04-2018 01:45 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:54 AM)colohank Wrote:  All of this piling on before the facts are fully known makes me wonder: do any of you guys have a close-enough friend or a valuable enough employee that you'd exercise a bit of patience and restraint trying to salvage his reputation, marriage, and productivity before finally conceding he's a hopeless case? Or would you just throw him under the bus at the first (or second or third...) hint of a transgression and move on? I'm sure as hell no fan of OSU, and like many of you, I'm ambivalent about Urban Meyer as a human being (well, except to believe that he, like most every other successful coach, is grossly over-paid). Did he either bend or overtly trash any rules? Did he look the other way too long? Is he totally innocent and worthy of exoneration? I just don't know, and neither do any of the rest of us. Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are known?

Enough restraint to allow your bud to beat his wife and never do anything about it?

A decade's worth of patience that inspires a cover-up, but not enough loyalty to refrain from flipping on the guy once everything becomes public?

Telling a reporter he's a liar so you can salvage your own reputation by lying about your knowledge of events?

No, I don't have any friends I'd do all that for.

The must read is the St. Valentine's Day Massacre thread which hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. I Woke Up Like This posted it. It describes abuse of players while he was at Florida.

And most of Ohio State students are not on campus yet. My God, that's going to get nasty if Meyer isn't gone by the time they get back. There's going to be constant bickering and never ending rancor between the football at all costs folks and the me too people.

That's where the University President might run into a big problem if he hasn't tossed Meyer out by they get back. He doesn't can Meyer, and there'll be students and faculty calling for his head. Probably an equal number or more will want Meyer to stay, but enough will want him to go that its going to be a never ending headache for the administration. And God help them if they fire the AD and keep Meyer, which might add another dimension to the rancor too.

Meyer, for all of his success at OSU, doesn't have the built up goodwill that JoPa had prior to his downfall. On a college campus of 58,000 and with faculty/staff of 28,000, there will be plenty of students and faculty who might protest this. Easily enough to keep this story going and going and going. And that's just ON campus.

(08-04-2018 01:12 PM)bluesox Wrote:  After seeing the entire board survive at Michigan state and than the promote an AD from within, I will say Ohio state will do nothing but keep everybody. Pretty hard to overthrow a big bureaucracy

The Michigan State situation is a bit odd, to say the least. First of all the University Board is especially unresponsive, and I'd argue hostile to the wants of its students and alumni. Its a bad situation that is likely only to deteriorate as time goes on. At MSU, satisfying the wants or desires of the students, faculty, and alumni is not a concern. Its maintaining control at all costs for a particular group of insiders. The University President is the second least popular University President at a public institution in the whole country (only Ray Watts at UAB fares worse - and he is also the product of a Board that ignores their students).

The problem that Urban Meyer has is that Ohio State might not be as insulated from criticism as Michigan State or UAB.

Ohio St could wash its hands of the current president and hire Youngstown’s to clean up the mess.

As a 50 year supporter of the Buckeyes (I can't speak with any certainty about my opinions before the age of 8), it looks to me like Urban Meyer has to go, and probably half his staff and the AD, possibly others.

I think we'll be raiding Cincy for a head football coach within 6 months.

(08-04-2018 05:11 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Ohio St could wash its hands of the current president and hire Youngstown’s to clean up the mess.

A football coach to lead a major research University? That wouldn't be helpful at all.

(08-04-2018 02:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 01:45 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 08:54 AM)colohank Wrote:  All of this piling on before the facts are fully known makes me wonder: do any of you guys have a close-enough friend or a valuable enough employee that you'd exercise a bit of patience and restraint trying to salvage his reputation, marriage, and productivity before finally conceding he's a hopeless case? Or would you just throw him under the bus at the first (or second or third...) hint of a transgression and move on? I'm sure as hell no fan of OSU, and like many of you, I'm ambivalent about Urban Meyer as a human being (well, except to believe that he, like most every other successful coach, is grossly over-paid). Did he either bend or overtly trash any rules? Did he look the other way too long? Is he totally innocent and worthy of exoneration? I just don't know, and neither do any of the rest of us. Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are known?

Enough restraint to allow your bud to beat his wife and never do anything about it?

A decade's worth of patience that inspires a cover-up, but not enough loyalty to refrain from flipping on the guy once everything becomes public?

Telling a reporter he's a liar so you can salvage your own reputation by lying about your knowledge of events?

No, I don't have any friends I'd do all that for.

The must read is the St. Valentine's Day Massacre thread which hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. I Woke Up Like This posted it. It describes abuse of players while he was at Florida.

If they can verify any of that, he should be gone.

(08-04-2018 07:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  As a 50 year supporter of the Buckeyes (I can't speak with any certainty about my opinions before the age of 8), it looks to me like Urban Meyer has to go, and probably half his staff and the AD, possibly others.

I think we'll be raiding Cincy for a head football coach within 6 months.

I hope so.