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Top academic schools outside of the AAU
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany

That can't be right. Cougar High fans assure me that the Powerhouse of Houston is right on the cusp.
04-11-2018 12:54 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-10-2018 11:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany

Gee, where's Oklahoma? According to a good many Sooner posters at another site their supposed to be next in line so that the Big 10 snaps them up. You know when your academics place you squarely in the middle of the SEC in academic standing you probably aren't real close to being AAU material.

Oklahoma's ok. #91, ahead of one current AAU member and behind 62. FYI
87. Arizona St.
87. South Florida
90. UMass
91. Virginia Tech
91. N. Carolina St.
91. Oklahoma
94. AAU member
04-11-2018 01:20 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 12:39 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany


I think a better way to look at it would be to look at whether the institution has multiple programs that are highly ranked and have competitive admissions policies.

Basically, I'd look at them this way. They should have

1) High research activity and significant non-medical research activity
2) A reasonably high endowment (lets just say a minimum of 500 million - all the schools that made my final cut are over 900 million using other criteria anyway)
3) A competitive acceptance rate, which I'll set arbitrarily at a maximum of 50 percent, that reflects a sufficiently high reputation across the institution as a whole
4) Multiple highly ranked programs
5) Large graduate school enrollment and significant Ph.D/terminal degree activity
6) Having a large enough enrollment to engage in high research activity. I'll spitball it at having 10,000 total students (grad and undergrad)

Here are the schools that might merit admission to the AAU

Tufts
Miami (FL)
George Washington U
Georgetown

Schools that don't have 10,000 total students. I suspect the reasons why these schools, all of which are great schools with good reputations aren't in the AAU already is the result of a lack of scope due to their small size.

Dartmouth
Wake Forest
RPI

Schools with weak admissions statistics. Many of these schools have acceptance rates north of 70 percent. All of them have acceptance rates north of 53 percent

Delaware
Uconn
Utah
Yeshiva
SUNY-Albany
Cincinatti
Oregon State
Hawai'i
Alaska Fairbanks
UC-Riverside
Colorado State
UC-Santa Cruz
Wayne State
UAB
Vermont
UIC
VCU
Not on bullet's list, but Oklahoma has an acceptance rate of 81% for undergrad.

Schools too heavily weighted towards medical/veterinary activity
Wayne State
Vermont
UAB
UIC
VCU
UCSF - is only for health/medicine
Rockefeller - only a medical school

----

Basically I see four schools on the list that can really claim to be high research, well funded, highly competitive admissions, largely endowed, highly ranked in multiple disciplines, and have large enough graduate and total enrollments to have the scope to be players on the national and world stage. Full disclosure.. I went to GWU. I think GW and Miami FL are tenuous, but credible candidates, but if Boston University can get in, they probably could if they really wanted to. All of the other schools on the list have issues other than Georgetown and Tufts. Tufts seems to be the best candidate of the entire list for admission (although their high research dollar amount comes from having a medical school AND a veterinary school (one used by several states as their de facto state Vet school). By the way, I think GW and Georgetown operate at a disadvantage as they're both located in an area where they have no representation in Congress for research appropriations.

I thought Tufts was pretty specialized, but I'm not that familiar with them. The AAU would look at things as you suggest rather than blindly following this list. But the schools that fit them are high on this list, while Nebraska no longer was. And that was the point of this exercise.
04-11-2018 01:23 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 01:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany

Gee, where's Oklahoma? According to a good many Sooner posters at another site their supposed to be next in line so that the Big 10 snaps them up. You know when your academics place you squarely in the middle of the SEC in academic standing you probably aren't real close to being AAU material.

Oklahoma's ok. #91, ahead of one current AAU member and behind 62. FYI
87. Arizona St.
87. South Florida
90. UMass
91. Virginia Tech
91. N. Carolina St.
91. Oklahoma
94. AAU member

So they are behind a lot of schools who are probably closer to membership than Oklahoma is since these slots don't come open very often and the membership total is relatively static.
04-11-2018 01:25 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 12:54 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany

That can't be right. Cougar High fans assure me that the Powerhouse of Houston is right on the cusp.

#104. They were ahead of Syracuse and Nebraska who got kicked out.
04-11-2018 01:25 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 01:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany

Gee, where's Oklahoma? According to a good many Sooner posters at another site their supposed to be next in line so that the Big 10 snaps them up. You know when your academics place you squarely in the middle of the SEC in academic standing you probably aren't real close to being AAU material.

Oklahoma's ok. #91, ahead of one current AAU member and behind 62. FYI
87. Arizona St.
87. South Florida
90. UMass
91. Virginia Tech
91. N. Carolina St.
91. Oklahoma
94. AAU member

Where is this list?
04-11-2018 01:25 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
JR-correct. Plus, all of these schools are improving so you have to improve faster.
04-11-2018 01:27 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 01:25 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(04-11-2018 01:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-24-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  There was a document that came out in FOI when Nebraska got kicked out. It ranked the schools based on the AAU's criteria. Syracuse who left on their own was apparently ranked #105. Nebraska was #109. The next two lowest (no names given) were #94 and #87.

There were 27 schools who are not now members of the AAU ranked 86 or higher. Now some of these are specialty schools or only medical schools and not eligible. Others like UAB and Cincinnati are high because of their attached highly regarded medical schools. But here are the schools and their rank:

1. Rockefeller University
2. UC-San Francisco
31. Yeshiva University
37. Dartmouth University
40. Alabama-Birmingham
43. Tufts University
49. Utah
52. UC-Santa Cruz
55. RPI
57. Wake Forest
59. Miami-FL
61. Illinois-Chicago
62. Cincinnati
64. Colorado St.
67. Oregon St.
68. George Washington University
72. Wayne St.
73. UC-Riverside
76. Alaska-Fairbanks
78. Virginia Commonwealth University
79. Vermont
79. Hawaii
81. Connecticut
83. Georgetown University
83. Delaware
86. SUNY-Albany

Gee, where's Oklahoma? According to a good many Sooner posters at another site their supposed to be next in line so that the Big 10 snaps them up. You know when your academics place you squarely in the middle of the SEC in academic standing you probably aren't real close to being AAU material.

Oklahoma's ok. #91, ahead of one current AAU member and behind 62. FYI
87. Arizona St.
87. South Florida
90. UMass
91. Virginia Tech
91. N. Carolina St.
91. Oklahoma
94. AAU member

Where is this list?

It was in the Omaha paper about a year after Nebraska got kicked out. The article is probably still out there. I downloaded the pdf at the time so I wouldn't have to look for it again. It has a series of letters of which this is an attachment to one and the 11th-13th page of the pdf. It basically shows Pearlman ignored all the advice trying to help Nebraska and attacked the AAU and lost.

The criteria is described in the letter. Its based on 7 items, including federal expenditures, faculty awards, citations and National Academy memberships, all normalized for the number of faculty.
04-11-2018 01:33 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 01:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  It was in the Omaha paper about a year after Nebraska got kicked out. The article is probably still out there. I downloaded the pdf at the time so I wouldn't have to look for it again. It has a series of letters of which this is an attachment to one and the 11th-13th page of the pdf. It basically shows Pearlman ignored all the advice trying to help Nebraska and attacked the AAU and lost.

The criteria is described in the letter. Its based on 7 items, including federal expenditures, faculty awards, citations and National Academy memberships, all normalized for the number of faculty.

Very interesting. Would you mind uploading your pdf somewhere for us to view? I'd like to take a look at those letters.
04-11-2018 03:09 PM
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NBPirate Online
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RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
In what world is Georgetown ranked 83rd in academics?????? Where does this list come from?
04-11-2018 03:17 PM
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RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 03:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  In what world is Georgetown ranked 83rd in academics?????? Where does this list come from?

In the world where we don't know what the methodology is and we're imagining a list from 7 years ago (at least I'm assuming since that's when Nebraska got the boot) has any weight on the current world.
04-11-2018 03:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 03:37 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(04-11-2018 03:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  In what world is Georgetown ranked 83rd in academics?????? Where does this list come from?

In the world where we don't know what the methodology is and we're imagining a list from 7 years ago (at least I'm assuming since that's when Nebraska got the boot) has any weight on the current world.

The AAU has a page on its home site that lists a very orderly set of criteria and procedures for membership. I suggest you read it. I has having a bit of sport about Oklahoma. The message board posters think that the Big 10 conference membership could get them in. This of course is pure hooey and anyone who acquaints themselves with the process will know this. When I posted a link for the board in question none of the posters referenced it. The point was that dumbasses will say what they want to say irregardless of the facts, well laid out criteria and procedures. It just goes with the territory of message boards. AAU selection is independent of everything but the schools own endeavors in the required fields and has nothing to do with conferences.
04-11-2018 04:11 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 03:17 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  In what world is Georgetown ranked 83rd in academics?????? Where does this list come from?

Its a research spending list. I'm surprised Georgetown isn't higher, but they have a smallish Medical school and their Engineering activity isn't as much of a focus as at other schools. The big research spending tends to be concentrated in Medicine, Engineering, Physics, and IT.

I also think that GW and Georgetown operate at a disadvantage because, being located in DC, they have no voting representatives in Congress advocating for them for government grants. I suspect GW moved much of its Engineering and Bio-Engineering research facilities to Virginia in an attempt to capture more funding (as well as because GW is out of space).
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018 04:52 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-11-2018 04:50 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
The private religious schools left the AAU because of their goals are different than the AAU. Catholic U. was an AAU member that left. So, I do not see Georgetown joining anytime soon.
04-11-2018 06:14 PM
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RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/...eview.html

This is a site holding those documents relating to Nebraska being kicked out.
04-11-2018 07:45 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 06:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The private religious schools left the AAU because of their goals are different than the AAU. Catholic U. was an AAU member that left. So, I do not see Georgetown joining anytime soon.

CUA couldn't keep up with the requirements

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/l...7037fa0af4

It had nothing to do with Catholic being a religious school. Had the AAU cared, they would have tossed CUA out in 1991 (when the AAUP ejected them) over their firing of tenured professor Curran.
04-11-2018 08:05 PM
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RE: Top academic schools outside of the AAU
(04-11-2018 08:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-11-2018 06:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The private religious schools left the AAU because of their goals are different than the AAU. Catholic U. was an AAU member that left. So, I do not see Georgetown joining anytime soon.

CUA couldn't keep up with the requirements

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/l...7037fa0af4

It had nothing to do with Catholic being a religious school. Had the AAU cared, they would have tossed CUA out in 1991 (when the AAUP ejected them) over their firing of tenured professor Curran.

And Syracuse de-emphasized research and bowed out rather than getting kicked out.
04-11-2018 09:07 PM
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