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(06-04-2018 10:15 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I think y'all are underselling Kalu and Reece. They're the two most skilled freshmen big men we've recruited since Alex Loughton and the most athletic big men we've recruited since Richard Ross. They should both make an immediate impact as freshmen (6 pts and 4 reb) and both could be very special as sophomores.

So you are guaranteeing that both of them are more skilled than Gerald Lee was coming into the program? They may well be more athletic than Gerald was, but he did have plenty of skills as a 6'-10" freshman.

Lee's lack of athleticism held him back from showcasing his skill set as a freshman. It wasn't until he was a sophomore that he learned how to compete at the NCAA level with less athleticism than everyone else on the court.

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(06-04-2018 06:23 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 10:15 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I think y'all are underselling Kalu and Reece. They're the two most skilled freshmen big men we've recruited since Alex Loughton and the most athletic big men we've recruited since Richard Ross. They should both make an immediate impact as freshmen (6 pts and 4 reb) and both could be very special as sophomores.

So you are guaranteeing that both of them are more skilled than Gerald Lee was coming into the program? They may well be more athletic than Gerald was, but he did have plenty of skills as a 6'-10" freshman.

Lee's lack of athleticism held him back from showcasing his skill set as a freshman. It wasn't until he was a sophomore that he learned how to compete at the NCAA level with less athleticism than everyone else on the court.

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You responded, but you didn't reply to the question.

Lee wasn't held back from his lack of athleticism. Lee was held back by the players ahead of him in the pecking order. As a good freshman he was willing to play more of a support role to these strong talented upperclassmen. He started his Sophomore year after three of these starters had departed and that is the better reason for his rise. Certainly Lee got better from his Freshman to his Sophomore year, but those other things played a much larger role in why his stats went up.

STARTERS:
SR. - Valdas Vasylaus
SR. - Arnaud Dahi
SR. - Drew Williamson
RJR. - Brian Henderson
JR. - Brandon Johnson

KEY RESERVE:
SO. - Jonathan Adams

As a FRESHMAN Gerald still had several strong games coming off the bench in limited minutes, such as his 6-8 shooting from (2) and 2-2 shooting from (3) against Drexel, and his 5-5 shooting, 10 points, 11 rebounds, and 2 steals performance against Butler in the NCAA Tournament.

Anyway, back to that question .... So you are guaranteeing that both of them (Kalu & Reece) are more skilled than Gerald Lee was coming into the program?

Two games doesn't prove much. Sam Harris had a handful of spectacular games.

In reality, Lee didn't do much his freshman year. I expect more out of both of our freshmen bigs.

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(06-04-2018 06:23 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 10:15 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I think y'all are underselling Kalu and Reece. They're the two most skilled freshmen big men we've recruited since Alex Loughton and the most athletic big men we've recruited since Richard Ross. They should both make an immediate impact as freshmen (6 pts and 4 reb) and both could be very special as sophomores.

So you are guaranteeing that both of them are more skilled than Gerald Lee was coming into the program? They may well be more athletic than Gerald was, but he did have plenty of skills as a 6'-10" freshman.

Lee's lack of athleticism held him back from showcasing his skill set as a freshman. It wasn't until he was a sophomore that he learned how to compete at the NCAA level with less athleticism than everyone else on the court.

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He lead us in scoring as a freshman in our NCAA tourney game but sure, everyone should totally take your opinion seriously lol.

(06-04-2018 08:34 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Two games doesn't prove much. Sam Harris had a handful of spectacular games.

In reality, Lee didn't do much his freshman year. I expect more out of both of our freshmen bigs.

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Good god this “logic” is ASTOUNDING.

No one takes you seriously when you make ridiculous over the top statements and then disappear when proven wrong (as is most often the case).

You have a Ripken like streak of absurd posts blowing up in your face.

Most impressive.

Thanks for the personal attacks.

#donteverchange #seriouslyyouhaventchangedinoveradecade #evenpeterpangrewup

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(06-04-2018 08:34 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Two games doesn't prove much. Sam Harris had a handful of spectacular games.

In reality, Lee didn't do much his freshman year. I expect more out of both of our freshmen bigs.

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I'm so glad that you weren't the coach of ODU. Blaine certainly liked Gerald Lee enough as a Freshman to play him off the bench 15-20 minutes per game in spite of having a solid core of upper classmen ahead of him. I'll say right now that I would like it a lot if Kalu & Reece play as good as Gerald did when he was a freshman if they too are coming off the bench and playing 15-20 minutes each per game. If one or both end up starting then I will expect them to contribute more than Lee did for reasons that I gave earlier.

Since you have responded 3 or 4 times now without answering the question I have asked, I'll take that to mean that you realize the wildness of your statement "They're the two (Kalu & Reece) most skilled freshmen big men we've recruited since Alex Loughton", and don't want to dig the hole you are in any deeper. Fact is, it remains to be seen if BOTH of them are better this season, more skilled, etc. than Gerald was as a freshman.

(06-04-2018 09:44 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Thanks for the personal attacks.

#donteverchange #seriouslyyouhaventchangedinoveradecade #evenpeterpangrewup

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Statements of fact are not personal attacks.

You have an extremely long history of awful prognostication regarding odu players.

This is a matter of record and not up for debate.

When we don’t make the NCAA tourney next year and neither of these freshman is better than Gerald lee (which isn’t even a slight, they could still be very good and not be better than Lee), you will just ignore your absurd posting yet again and next years group will be “DA GREATEST EVA!!!!” Just like huett and kah and Godwin and green and blah blah blah......

(06-04-2018 09:46 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 08:34 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Two games doesn't prove much. Sam Harris had a handful of spectacular games.

In reality, Lee didn't do much his freshman year. I expect more out of both of our freshmen bigs.

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I'm so glad that you weren't the coach of ODU. Blaine certainly liked Gerald Lee enough as a Freshman to play him off the bench 15-20 minutes per game in spite of having a solid core of upper classmen ahead of him. I'll say right now that I would like it a lot if Kalu & Reece play as good as Gerald did when he was a freshman if they too are coming off the bench and playing 15-20 minutes each per game. If one or both end up starting then I will expect them to contribute more than Lee did for reasons that I gave earlier.

Since you have responded 3 or 4 times now without answering the question I have asked, I'll take that to mean that you realize the wildness of your statement "They're the two (Kalu & Reece) most skilled freshmen big men we've recruited since Alex Loughton", and don't want to dig the hole you are in any deeper. Fact is, it remains to be seen if BOTH of them are better this season, more skilled, etc. than Gerald was as a freshman.

Gerald was a point center/power forward on occasion who could post up on either block, shoot FT’s and knock down mid range shots.

To make the assertion he just did without ever having seen either player play a single minute of basketball in person is just absolutely ridiculous.

Of course actually seeing them in person wouldn’t change anything either as he said Sam Harris was going to be all caa after a blue white game because he “looked amazing” to him.

Just take his ridiculousness over the top prognostications with the massive grain of salt they require.

Look, I am as excited about our incoming class as anyone, but let's not anoint them the next Laughton or Lee just yet. Don't get me wrong, I will take it. MHJ was also a high level recruit.

Let's let the incoming guys make their own mark. Typically, big guys are slower to develop, with Lee and Laughton being the exceptions. Best case scenario is that Robinson will be the beast that we hope he will be, we add another quality big man, and the freshmen can play spot duty to develop their own game and get game experience. If one or both earns a starting job, good for them. I'm just not sure what that does for our NCAA hopes.

Gerald Lee, for as good as he was as a sophomore to senior, was not an impact freshman. No amount of revisionist history will change that. In 18 mpg he averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds...which was 2 more points and 1 less rebound per game than Aaron Carver this year. I know some of you in your attempt to rewrite history will point to a game here or a game there that Lee showed his potential, but that's not how entire SEASONS are judged. If it were, we'd all be talking about how successful Aaron Carver's sophomore year was because he put up 11 points and 7 rebounds against Temple.

(06-05-2018 07:58 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Gerald Lee, for as good as he was as a sophomore to senior, was not an impact freshman. No amount of revisionist history will change that. In 18 mpg he averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds...which was 2 more points and 1 less rebound per game than Aaron Carver this year. I know some of you in your attempt to rewrite history will point to a game here or a game there that Lee showed his potential, but that's not how entire SEASONS are judged. If it were, we'd all be talking about how successful Aaron Carver's sophomore year was because he put up 11 points and 7 rebounds against Temple.

Yet another response, but still didn't answer the question. Just admit you made a silly comment and move on. As Blaine would say .... "All hat and no horse".

I'm not sure how much more you want from me? You want me to guarantee that both guys will shoot better than Lee's 0.600 FT% or his 0.518 FG%? Ok, fine. I'll gladly bet on both guys to perform better. You want me to guarantee that they'll have more than 10.65 Total Rebound %? Easy. You want me to guarantee that they'll have more than a 3.4 Total Block %? No big deal. How much more do you want me to guarantee? Lee's freshman year from a production standpoint and a skill standpoint (from all measurable criteria) was not insurmountable.

Lee's freshman production was VERY similar to Carver's production this year. Funny if I made the guarantee that our two incoming freshman would produce more than Carver did this year, I'd be met with almost no pushback. In fact, most people would claim that if they didn't perform better than Carver that they were busts. However, invoking Lee's name into the conversation brings a totally different reaction.

Now, I'm not saying that either of these guys will go on to have the overall CAREER that Lee had. If they do that's great, but it's not expected. However, surpassing Lee's freshman year production is no tall order.

Just simply wanted to see if you were committed to your comment or if you had merely overstated it as sometimes happens to us all.

It isn't solely about freshman stats in determining what skills a player had coming into college although that certainly factors into it. Some players will adjust to the college game and to their role on the team quicker than others will, even if they are of comparable skills. That alone can skew what their stats would otherwise be. Adjusting to what your new coach wants you to do can make you shy about putting the ball on the floor, shooting the ball, etc. even if you felt that you could do it at the time. They aren't just adjusting to the game itself, but are also adjusting to a lot of other things at that same time such as college courses, sometimes still having to decide on a major, living in a new environment, making new friends, new coaches, new work out regimens, adjusting to the rigors of travel while keeping up in class, new eating habits, having to decide about new temptations that may be offered to them (drugs, alcohol), etc..

Lee came to the program with plenty of skills, and I think that you probably just forgot about him or maybe forgot that he came in after Laughton did.

Lee prior to his start at ODU -

IN FINLAND: Played for the Finnish under-20 team where he was averaging 17.1 points and 4.5 rebounds...Averaged 10.0 points and 4.5 rebounds Per game for the city team of Korihait which had seven players averaging double figures. He scored 28 points and 25 points in his last two games of the season. Averaged 18.1 points and 8.3 rebounds for the Finnish under-18 team in 2005...He Scored 30 points with eight rebounds against Hungary as his season high. ..He shot .566 from the floor...

Lee wasn't a great player until his junior year. Obviously, I would still take his freshman year type season from Ezikpe.
Lee tends to get a little overrated on this board. His biggest problem was that he didn't rebound for crap. His Jr. and Sr. season were still very good because of his scoring ability. But, as a soph he only shot 48% from the field and grabbed less than 11% of rebounds. He did score 17 points per game but with hardly any rebounds and a a low efficiency. His JR year he raised to 54%, which was good and 55% his senior year.

Loughton was more of an impact player from the start and was a stud as a soph. (shot 49%, but with 3 pointers and rebounds)

(06-05-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lee wasn't a great player until his junior year. Obviously, I would still take his freshman year type season from Ezikpe.
Lee tends to get a little overrated on this board. His biggest problem was that he didn't rebound for crap. His Jr. and Sr. season were still very good because of his scoring ability. But, as a soph he only shot 48% from the field and grabbed less than 11% of rebounds. He did score 17 points per game but with hardly any rebounds and a a low efficiency. His JR year he raised to 54%, which was good and 55% his senior year.

Loughton was more of an impact player from the start and was a stud as a soph. (shot 49%, but with 3 pointers and rebounds)

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Lee regarding rebounding, but I do feel that it is important to take into account that he played on some ODU teams where I believe that rebounding was considered a strength of the team. During his ODU career he played along side of other players that were good rebounders for their position such as Vasylaus, Dahi, Adams, Hassell, Carter, Cooper, Bazemore, and Finney. That said, he did produce an 11 rebound performance as a freshman in the biggest game of the year while coming off the bench against Butler.

I too would take Laughton over Lee if I had to choose between them, but would love to have both of them again as freshmen at ODU, especially if we could have them both at the same time.

(06-05-2018 01:09 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lee wasn't a great player until his junior year. Obviously, I would still take his freshman year type season from Ezikpe.
Lee tends to get a little overrated on this board. His biggest problem was that he didn't rebound for crap. His Jr. and Sr. season were still very good because of his scoring ability. But, as a soph he only shot 48% from the field and grabbed less than 11% of rebounds. He did score 17 points per game but with hardly any rebounds and a a low efficiency. His JR year he raised to 54%, which was good and 55% his senior year.

Loughton was more of an impact player from the start and was a stud as a soph. (shot 49%, but with 3 pointers and rebounds)

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Lee regarding rebounding, but I do feel that it is important to take into account that he played on some ODU teams where I believe that rebounding was considered a strength of the team. During his ODU career he played along side of other players that were good rebounders for their position such as Vasylaus, Dahi, Adams, Hassell, Carter, Cooper, Bazemore, and Finney. That said, he did produce an 11 rebound performance as a freshman in the biggest game of the year while coming off the bench against Butler.

I too would take Laughton over Lee if I had to choose between them, but would love to have both of them again as freshmen at ODU, especially if we could have them both at the same time.

His soph year, he had the 6th best rebounding rate for a guy that was our primary big man. Hassell, Finney, Harris, Adams, and Carter all rebounded better than him and our point guard (Brandon Johnson) almost grabbed the same about of rebounds. His junior year he was 5th. His senior year, he was 8th behind Hassell, Cooper, Carter, Neely, Wright, Bazemore, and Finney.

They is zero reason Illiadis and DeLancy should grab almost as many rebounds as our 6-9 center. For comparison sake, he grabbed rebounds at the same rate as BJ Stith did this past season.

(06-05-2018 01:09 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lee wasn't a great player until his junior year. Obviously, I would still take his freshman year type season from Ezikpe.
Lee tends to get a little overrated on this board. His biggest problem was that he didn't rebound for crap. His Jr. and Sr. season were still very good because of his scoring ability. But, as a soph he only shot 48% from the field and grabbed less than 11% of rebounds. He did score 17 points per game but with hardly any rebounds and a a low efficiency. His JR year he raised to 54%, which was good and 55% his senior year.

Loughton was more of an impact player from the start and was a stud as a soph. (shot 49%, but with 3 pointers and rebounds)

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Lee regarding rebounding, but I do feel that it is important to take into account that he played on some ODU teams where I believe that rebounding was considered a strength of the team. During his ODU career he played along side of other players that were good rebounders for their position such as Vasylaus, Dahi, Adams, Hassell, Carter, Cooper, Bazemore, and Finney. That said, he did produce an 11 rebound performance as a freshman in the biggest game of the year while coming off the bench against Butler.

I too would take Laughton over Lee if I had to choose between them, but would love to have both of them again as freshmen at ODU, especially if we could have them both at the same time.

His soph year, he had the 6th best rebounding rate for a guy that was our primary big man. Hassell, Finney, Harris, Adams, and Carter all rebounded better than him and our point guard (Brandon Johnson) almost grabbed the same about of rebounds. His junior year he was 5th. His senior year, he was 8th behind Hassell, Cooper, Carter, Neely, Wright, Bazemore, and Finney.

They is zero reason Illiadis and DeLancy should grab almost as many rebounds as our 6-9 center. For comparison sake, he grabbed rebounds at the same rate as BJ Stith did this past season.

I loved Gerald and he was a very good player for us. I do remember very often many of us wishing he had more of a mean/aggressive streak. There were times where we really needed him to go after it a little more. That being said, I'd love to have a player of his skill level and ability.

(06-05-2018 12:28 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Just simply wanted to see if you were committed to your comment or if you had merely overstated it as sometimes happens to us all.

It isn't solely about freshman stats in determining what skills a player had coming into college although that certainly factors into it. Some players will adjust to the college game and to their role on the team quicker than others will, even if they are of comparable skills. That alone can skew what their stats would otherwise be. Adjusting to what your new coach wants you to do can make you shy about putting the ball on the floor, shooting the ball, etc. even if you felt that you could do it at the time. They aren't just adjusting to the game itself, but are also adjusting to a lot of other things at that same time such as college courses, sometimes still having to decide on a major, living in a new environment, making new friends, new coaches, new work out regimens, adjusting to the rigors of travel while keeping up in class, new eating habits, having to decide about new temptations that may be offered to them (drugs, alcohol), etc..

Lee came to the program with plenty of skills, and I think that you probably just forgot about him or maybe forgot that he came in after Laughton did.

Lee prior to his start at ODU -

IN FINLAND: Played for the Finnish under-20 team where he was averaging 17.1 points and 4.5 rebounds...Averaged 10.0 points and 4.5 rebounds Per game for the city team of Korihait which had seven players averaging double figures. He scored 28 points and 25 points in his last two games of the season. Averaged 18.1 points and 8.3 rebounds for the Finnish under-18 team in 2005...He Scored 30 points with eight rebounds against Hungary as his season high. ..He shot .566 from the floor...

I didn't forget about Lee. In fact, I went back to look at his stats to confirm that his freshman year was as average as I remember it being. I don't care what he did in Finland. The top level of basketball in Finland is about as competitive as many of our local districts.

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