(12-27-2017 02:13 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Christmas gift...... good stuff though.

Haha!! Merry Christmas!

Read up on it. The sloshing around on the boats speeds up the fermentation process. I had a bottle from Votage 9. I’m goong to look and see where that ranked. I went out and bought a voyage 11 today. A buddy sent me a Garrison’s brothers special reserve bourbon last Christmas. That was a 289 dollar bottle of whiskey. That has to be opened on a special occasion.

(12-26-2017 09:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  They are so much better at the messaging aspect of politics. Did you guys know that they kept in the loopholes and deductions? Most corporations are going to pay around 9% when this is through. Why aren’t the airwaves filled “were the next Greece”. The Drudge Report is such an effective weapon for you guys. I tell myself just to worry about me. Me personally I have never had it as good, but I worry about the future. We are well on the path to straight fascism. When will labor get a win? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Middle class shrinks.

The day the right out-manuevers the left and all its liberal MSM messaging infrastructure, is the day that Bowling Green State University goes to Duke's homecourt and beats them and the ACC refs by 30 points. The odds are much the same.

The real story is that Trump continues to win despite the odds against him.

(12-27-2017 02:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Read up on it. The sloshing around on the boats speeds up the fermentation process. I had a bottle from Votage 9. I’m goong to look and see where that ranked. I went out and bought a voyage 11 today. A buddy sent me a Garrison’s brothers special reserve bourbon last Christmas. That was a 289 dollar bottle of whiskey. That has to be opened on a special occasion.

What you are doing in this thread is nothing but strait up trolling. And VERY petty trolling at that.

You are not even remotely trying to have a back and forth discussion with anyone here, and you refuse to response at any questions or points anyone makes.

100% trolling and nothing more.

(12-26-2017 09:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 09:38 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What’s your simple question Greybeard?

Loopholes....

Did we ever find the elusive loopholes? I would like to know about them, so I can see if they apply to our tax situation.

Read the tax bill that passed on the same day it was presented to Congress. They always talked about lowering the tax rate but cutting the loopholes and deductions. I know you are a whiny troll but do some of the work yourself. It’s not being made up brainiac. Do you your own damn homework.

Literally had to just type what loopholes were kept into the tax bill in google. Here’s one from the New York Times.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/bu...oogle.com/


Why so stupid and lazy Greybeard? Put your phalanges on that mystical machine in front of your face and type in google. Then a window will appear. Type into that loopholes that were kept. They actually pay people we call “reporters” to write things called articles where you can find the information that you seek.

I’m sure most of the loopholes were for the top 1% of earners. By demonstrating your trouble of finding basic information I’m sure most of these loopholes weren’t for you.

(01-02-2018 06:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I’m sure most of the loopholes were for the top 1% of earners. By demonstrating your trouble of finding basic information I’m sure most of these loopholes weren’t for you.

Talking corporate loopholes, as that was what you were rambling on about, and for some reason I can not access the link.

Ah, somebody's feelings must be hurt.

So I was able to get the article that you listed and ....to my wondering surprise, it was about a loophole that was closed during this tax bill.

Did you use the fancy google machine like I suggested. The NY Times one was the first one that popped up? I’m on my iPhone at a Wal Mart getting my daughters oil changed before she goes back to college. The article I read listed some loopholes that were kept in. I hope that is the one I linked. Point being however. Me at a freaking Wal Mart on a cell phone can get what your lazy behind couldn’t. That’s the main point here. Look and ye shall find lazy bones.

(01-02-2018 06:58 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Did you use the fancy google machine like I suggested. The NY Times one was the first one that popped up? I’m on my iPhone at a Wal Mart getting my daughters oil changed before she goes back to college. The article I read listed some loopholes that were kept in. I hope that is the one I linked. Point being however. Me at a freaking Wal Mart on a cell phone can get what your lazy behind couldn’t. That’s the main point here. Look and ye shall find lazy bones.

Spin Room AUP states that you are expected to defend your position. I'm simply holding you to that.

Enjoy your Wally world time.

(01-02-2018 06:58 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Did you use the fancy google machine like I suggested. The NY Times one was the first one that popped up? I’m on my iPhone at a Wal Mart getting my daughters oil changed before she goes back to college. The article I read listed some loopholes that were kept in. I hope that is the one I linked. Point being however. Me at a freaking Wal Mart on a cell phone can get what your lazy behind couldn’t. That’s the main point here. Look and ye shall find lazy bones.

They only described one -- the manufacturing deduction.

And by the way, when you reference 'lots of deductions' be prepared to cite them. It isnt our prerogative to look up the specifics of your generalized assertions.

*That's* the main point.

Sorry you get snippy when called on it; that is the problem with making highly generalized assertions. But you know that, right?

The reason for the manufacturing deduction was very simple--our corporate tax rates were so much higher than those of other countries that US manufacturers were at a significant disadvantage competing in world markets. So we came up with a deduction to close the gap. Like any other part of the tax code, once you put it in writing, then people can find ways to exploit it. At the new corporate tax rate, it has no raison d'être, so it could be removed.

Most "loopholes" are just like that--workarounds for otherwise counterproductive sections of the tax code.

The next problem we will have is that with the huge difference between corporate rates and top individual rates, there will be a hunt for ways to put income into corporations and take deductions at the individual level. This already happens in Europe, where top individual rates are typically higher than top corporate rates. It is even more pronounced in countries where the double taxation of dividend income is either reduced or eliminated altogether

I don’t care for the term loophole. It implies someone stumbling onto a flaw.
Those don’t exist in the tax code. They are there by design.
For example the mortgage interest deduction was touted as an incentive to increase home ownership rates but the real purpose is to artificially inflate housing prices. Mortgage lenders, real estate agents and builders make more from that artificial price support.
Most of the “good deals” business receives are created to help large businesses because small businesses typically lack the capital to take advantage. Joe’s Hardware can’t easily trademark the business name, sell that name to an Irish corporation and charge Joe’s Hardware a huge licensing fee for using the trademark.
That’s my problem with the tax code. Large businesses can use their resources to gain a competitive advantage from economies of scale and that’s fine but when the government enhances their competitive advantage that’s a problem.


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(01-03-2018 01:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don’t care for the term loophole. It implies someone stumbling onto a flaw.
Those don’t exist in the tax code. They are there by design.
For example the mortgage interest deduction was touted as an incentive to increase home ownership rates but the real purpose is to artificially inflate housing prices. Mortgage lenders, real estate agents and builders make more from that artificial price support.

Most of the “good deals” business receives are created to help large businesses because small businesses typically lack the capital to take advantage. Joe’s Hardware can’t easily trademark the business name, sell that name to an Irish corporation and charge Joe’s Hardware a huge licensing fee for using the trademark.
That’s my problem with the tax code. Large businesses can use their resources to gain a competitive advantage from economies of scale and that’s fine but when the government enhances their competitive advantage that’s a problem.


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that's the biggest of 'dem' all that was exposed....

there's a fine line relative to the latter point....it get's quite tricky when trying to play the game of advantage vs. those that will take advantage en micro.....I personally prefer giving the larger incentives to the bigger gorillas in the zoo (and I say that as a small biz owner)

fighting for small retail is beating a dead horse IMO.....they have to adapt and piggy back on tech improvements.....we still have plenty of successful small retail businesses in the 'burg that have figured out that part of the equation....

(01-03-2018 01:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don’t care for the term loophole. It implies someone stumbling onto a flaw.
Those don’t exist in the tax code. They are there by design.
For example the mortgage interest deduction was touted as an incentive to increase home ownership rates but the real purpose is to artificially inflate housing prices. Mortgage lenders, real estate agents and builders make more from that artificial price support.
Most of the “good deals” business receives are created to help large businesses because small businesses typically lack the capital to take advantage. Joe’s Hardware can’t easily trademark the business name, sell that name to an Irish corporation and charge Joe’s Hardware a huge licensing fee for using the trademark.
That’s my problem with the tax code. Large businesses can use their resources to gain a competitive advantage from economies of scale and that’s fine but when the government enhances their competitive advantage that’s a problem.


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That's because it's those large businesses that have enough money for lobbyists to spread money around to Congress to have those "loopholes" put into the tax code for their benefit......and they have all realized it's not a Republican or Democrat payoff - they pay off all of them.

This more than anything it where the power of Congress lies - the picking of winners and losers.

I think this is the biggest barrier to implementing a consumption tax system - Congress loses the power to get bought off.........