(12-19-2017 01:16 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 12:45 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Don't you think that while they aren't paying to SS they are paying to the substitute retirement plan at the same or similar amount? And the average annuity paid to rail employees per month is most likely based on their working salary as is the average SS payment. The rail workers are a well paid subset of the nation's employees while the SS average would be based on the full set and thus logically lower. The only way to know is the RR program was better, equal or worse than SS would be to compare lifetime salaries equal to one another.

I don't know the answer to your question. I asked Fit but he apparently doesn't check his paystub

I wouldn't be surprised though if they didn't pay anything into the pension and that was benefit of employment. I would love an answer as accruing credit into a pension and not paying SS is a pretty sweet deal.

Looking at it I can tell you that given that you don't also get Social Security as well this isn't a good deal compared to NC. Average salary x Years of service x 2.3 isn't much better than NC. We use a similar formula with the last figure x 1.82. That 1.82 goes up slightly for each year past 30. So Texas teachers are giving up SS benefits for 0.48 more in the calculation.

From the Texas Retirement Plan website

When you begin work as public school teacher in Texas, you are automatically enrolled in a retirement plan through the Teacher Retirement System of Texas (TRS). It is the largest public retirement system in Texas, serving more than 1.3 million participants.

The TRS retirement plan is a defined benefit plan. Once you qualify for normal retirement, you are eligible to receive a monthly pension for life.

As a TRS member, you contribute 6.4% of your compensation toward future retirement benefits. The amount contributed by employing school districts differs from district to district.

Your eligibility for service retirement is determined by your age and years of service. To retire with full benefits, you must meet the following qualifications:

You are 65 or older with at least 5 years of service
Your age and service credit total 80
Once you reach normal retirement age and terminate your employment, you can begin to receive your monthly benefits. Monthly benefits are based on a formula that is subject to change. However, you can use the following formula to calculate your normal retirement annuity based on current law:

Average of five highest salaries
multiplied by
Total years of service credit
multiplied by
2.3%

4Texas teacher retiring with 30 years service and high 5 year average of $50,000 = $34,500 with no SS.
NC teacher retiring with 30 years service and high 4 year average of $50,000 = $27,300 plus SS.
So for $7,200 more a year in pension they give up (not their choice) any SS benefits.
Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

(12-19-2017 01:33 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:21 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:14 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 12:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I don't know but I did for 11 years before I became a teacher. That's my money, don't you think I am entitled to it?

absolutely I do. my stepfather died unexpectedly and the way my mom was treated by SS was terrible in terms of the money she got after he had contributed to the system for 2 decades.

that's how Ponzi scheme operate, no???

I must say, if you don't know if you are paying SS tax you really should check your paystub

That was a typo. I mean to say. I don't now but I did for 11 years.

haha im just giving you a hard time

serious question though, do you pay into the pension or do you automatically accrue credit for years of service?

I just found out from my assistant that she is in fact receiving social security now so I guess you still can "double dip" in Texas

That's right boys, I have a teacher's assistant as well.

so you get a comparable pension plan at $0 cost to you per paycheck

not a bad gig

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

Sounds like your life would really suck if you actually had to live with a real Obamacare policy instead of that pre-Obamacare policy you were grandfathered under.

(12-19-2017 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:33 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:21 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:14 PM)solohawks Wrote:  absolutely I do. my stepfather died unexpectedly and the way my mom was treated by SS was terrible in terms of the money she got after he had contributed to the system for 2 decades.

that's how Ponzi scheme operate, no???

I must say, if you don't know if you are paying SS tax you really should check your paystub

That was a typo. I mean to say. I don't now but I did for 11 years.

haha im just giving you a hard time

serious question though, do you pay into the pension or do you automatically accrue credit for years of service?

I just found out from my assistant that she is in fact receiving social security now so I guess you still can "double dip" in Texas

That's right boys, I have a teacher's assistant as well.

so you get a comparable pension plan at $0 cost to you per paycheck

not a bad gig

They take out 6.4% from his check each month. I think what he means is that his assistant is drawing SS based on employment outside the school system. They can't deny you SS based on working in the school system, you just don't have any income the school job calculated into your SS benefit. A career teacher isn't going to get much SS benefit because it will be calculated on part time jobs, earlier jobs before becoming a teacher etc. Remember how much your SS check ends up being is based on how much you put in over your working lifetime.

(12-19-2017 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

Sounds like your life would really suck if you actually had to live with a real Obamacare policy instead of that pre-Obamacare policy you were grandfathered under.

I've never been on an individual plan. Only about 10% of the population are. My employer and I split the cost. The grandfathering was about individual policies not employer policies. I've explained that to you countless times but you never seem to grasp that. It is certainly true that people in my age group that don't have employer plans and have high incomes pay a huge premium.

If anyone is expecting to retire comfortably on SS then they are in for a rude awakening.

(12-19-2017 02:21 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

Sounds like your life would really suck if you actually had to live with a real Obamacare policy instead of that pre-Obamacare policy you were grandfathered under.

I've never been on an individual plan. Only about 10% of the population are. My employer and I split the cost. The grandfathering was about individual policies not employer policies. I've explained that to you countless times but you never seem to grasp that. It is certainly true that people in my age group that don't have employer plans and have high incomes pay a huge premium.

Opt out of your plan and jump onto the exchange. I mean, if Obamacare is everything you say it is, why would you keep that garbage company plan when you could get that silver Obamare plan.

(12-19-2017 02:29 PM)dfarr Wrote:  If anyone is expecting to retire comfortably on SS then they are in for a rude awakening.

Tell me about it. I am housing my mother-in-law for the foreseeable furture because no way SS covers her living expenses (however minimal) and her other investments we need to sock away to take care of the inevitable sickness/end-of-life concerns.

On the flip side, my baby sitter expenses have gone to zero.

(12-19-2017 02:14 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  They take out 6.4% from his check each month. I think what he means is that his assistant is drawing SS based on employment outside the school system. They can't deny you SS based on working in the school system, you just don't have any income the school job calculated into your SS benefit. A career teacher isn't going to get much SS benefit because it will be calculated on part time jobs, earlier jobs before becoming a teacher etc. Remember how much your SS check ends up being is based on how much you put in over your working lifetime.

They take out 6.4% of Fit's paycheck for the pension?

He has not indicated that. The current tax rate for SS is 6.2%.

If Fit is getting a comparable benefit to SS without having to pay the SS tax, how is that not better than rest of the other 99% of us?

If you are not partaking in SS, you need to be aware of that and make the proper arrangements. You have the potential to make out like a bandit, so use that 6.2% savings to be fruitful and multiply for net worth.

(12-19-2017 02:38 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:29 PM)dfarr Wrote:  If anyone is expecting to retire comfortably on SS then they are in for a rude awakening.

Tell me about it. I am housing my mother-in-law for the foreseeable furture because no way SS covers her living expenses (however minimal) and her other investments we need to sock away to take care of the inevitable sickness/end-of-life concerns.

On the flip side, my baby sitter expenses have gone to zero.

we inherited a clusterbang of poo......and (assuming you as well) we knew it was going to end up this way......

you're not alone....

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

So because you and others lack the fiscal discipline to live within your means the rest of us should be forced to give up part of our paycheck?

(12-19-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

So because you and others lack the fiscal discipline to live within your means the rest of us should be forced to give up part of our paycheck?

and I seem to recall this same guy was lecturing some of us with astronomical rates and deductibles that we simply needed to learn how to "budget".

(12-19-2017 02:29 PM)dfarr Wrote:  If anyone is expecting to retire comfortably on SS then they are in for a rude awakening.

I can't imagine anyone thinking that.

(12-19-2017 02:39 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:14 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  They take out 6.4% from his check each month. I think what he means is that his assistant is drawing SS based on employment outside the school system. They can't deny you SS based on working in the school system, you just don't have any income the school job calculated into your SS benefit. A career teacher isn't going to get much SS benefit because it will be calculated on part time jobs, earlier jobs before becoming a teacher etc. Remember how much your SS check ends up being is based on how much you put in over your working lifetime.

They take out 6.4% of Fit's paycheck for the pension?

He has not indicated that. The current tax rate for SS is 6.2%.

If Fit is getting a comparable benefit to SS without having to pay the SS tax, how is that not better than rest of the other 99% of us?

If you are not partaking in SS, you need to be aware of that and make the proper arrangements. You have the potential to make out like a bandit, so use that 6.2% savings to be fruitful and multiply for net worth.

Didn't you read the post quoting the Texas Retirement System I included earlier? It shows how much they pay in (6.4%), how to calculate their retirement (average of highest 5 years pay x years of service x 2.3) etc. Fit isn't getting a comparable benefit because his pension is the only thing he gets. You could go so far as to say that the state isn't offering their employees a pension at all, just a substitute of Social Security. Most people invest in a 401k or IRS for retirement in addition to any pension and SS.

(12-19-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

So because you and others lack the fiscal discipline to live within your means the rest of us should be forced to give up part of our paycheck?

No I live well within my means. Most people do live pay check to pay check though. Not because they all lack fiscal discipline but because life is expensive and income has been stagnate for a long time.

(12-19-2017 03:22 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 01:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Of course they didn't have SS deductions for those 30 years.

I was going to call you out on that minor little detail

glad you added it

Any smart person would take the money they would have had taxed for SS and put it in a retirement fund

They would make out like bandits

Most of us are living pay check to pay check. Even if we know that would be the wise thing to do most of us wouldn't do it. We spend what we have. If we don't have it we can't spend it. We just ***** about it being taken out when we look at our pay stub.

So because you and others lack the fiscal discipline to live within your means the rest of us should be forced to give up part of our paycheck?

and I seem to recall this same guy was lecturing some of us with astronomical rates and deductibles that we simply needed to learn how to "budget".

We all have to budget. If we don't we show a lack of fiscal discipline to live within our means.

(12-19-2017 04:17 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:39 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-19-2017 02:14 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  They take out 6.4% from his check each month. I think what he means is that his assistant is drawing SS based on employment outside the school system. They can't deny you SS based on working in the school system, you just don't have any income the school job calculated into your SS benefit. A career teacher isn't going to get much SS benefit because it will be calculated on part time jobs, earlier jobs before becoming a teacher etc. Remember how much your SS check ends up being is based on how much you put in over your working lifetime.

They take out 6.4% of Fit's paycheck for the pension?

He has not indicated that. The current tax rate for SS is 6.2%.

If Fit is getting a comparable benefit to SS without having to pay the SS tax, how is that not better than rest of the other 99% of us?

If you are not partaking in SS, you need to be aware of that and make the proper arrangements. You have the potential to make out like a bandit, so use that 6.2% savings to be fruitful and multiply for net worth.

Didn't you read the post quoting the Texas Retirement System I included earlier? It shows how much they pay in (6.4%), how to calculate their retirement (average of highest 5 years pay x years of service x 2.3) etc. Fit isn't getting a comparable benefit because his pension is the only thing he gets. You could go so far as to say that the state isn't offering their employees a pension at all, just a substitute of Social Security. Most people invest in a 401k or IRS for retirement in addition to any pension and SS.

Wow thanks for that information.

I was paying into a 403b but in 2007 when the markets began to crash, I was advised to put my monies into a saving account where it would earn less than before but would be 100% secure. At least that's what they told me. I haven't paying into the system since then.