(09-06-2017 04:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:42 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 03:58 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 03:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Because you will see a flow of star G5 players up to P5 schools and a flow of underperforming P5 players down to G5 schools. How long will a star QB stay at a G5 when Bama is on the line and there is no penalty for transferring. It aint rocket science. The best high schools players overwhelmingly select P5 destinations. Why exactly do you think proven star G5 players would be any different given the opportunity?

You're not presenting a compelling argument why this would primarily be G5 to P5 movement. There are a limited # of roster positions and a limited amount of playing time. Why transfer just to sit behind a 5-star player? G5's don't get those guys, P5's do. If anything this works in favor of G5's. Why the heck would a player transfer someplace where there's even more competition to see the field?

The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up tiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differntly. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The flow of quality athletes flows up---not down.

This simply is not the case. Arkansas State QB left OU after a year and went JC. He lit up Nebraska and was 8-2 as a starter in his first year of playing FBS last year. Kendrick Edwards left Arkansas and had over 100 yards and a TD in the same game. There are plenty of very talented and often more talented players on the bench at a given P5. Sometimes they have not matured yet, the coach doesn't evaluate talent well, the system is not a good fit, etc. but there are simply not enough slots for 85 scholarship athletes to be happy. Dee Liner is another guy who is flourishing but was buried on the Alabama depth chart where they sign 4 and 5 star guys to sit on the bench.

The player transferring "up" is going to have to contend with a crop of highly touted recruits as soon as he arrives on campus.

Now, it could level some things out AMONG some P5 schools if they could poach from one another within a conference.

Nobody is saying you wont pick up an occasional nice grab from the P5. What Im telling you is your losses will be worse than your pickups. The occasional "win" is not the rule. Sure, sometimes Arky State beats out the Hogs for a recruit. Yeah, sometimes the a 2-star Red Wolf turns out to be better than a Arkansas 4-Star. But overall, the Hogs are a more attrractive place and they will win the talent battle more often. Its essentially high school recruiting all over again--but with your present roster. Youve presented no compelling argument as to why a G5 would consistently gain or even maintain their talent level in face of that same competition when they certainly do not consistently win that battle at the high school recruiting level.

I just dont see how this would end well for the G5. I think it turns the G5 into the the college football version of the the NBA's "D" league.

I don't see the logic in your argument.

You could probably take every Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC, MAC, and MWC team and have trouble finding 10 guys who would for sure start on any top 25 P5 teams.

(09-07-2017 09:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  When the easier lift is lowering the number of scholarships so schools can commit to the kids they have, while cutting overall operational costs...why would this even be an option?

Because the big schools want to keep 85 players so they will continue to have superior depth and can make up for academic and athletic risks who flop.

(09-07-2017 10:20 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 09:22 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 10:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 10:05 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up thiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differently. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The quality athletes arent going to step down---only the ones that have no chance of getting on the field are interested in such a move. For the G5, the net quality flow will be out---not in. The G5 survives by developing 2-stars the P5 passed over in HS into FBS 4/5-stars. Under the new rule, the P5 would be able to get those too.

Look, it doesnt matter in G5 vs G5 battles. Its about the differnece between G5 and P5. Right now there are G5 teams that are competitive against top tier P5 teams. That wont be the case withing 5-10 years under the proposed new rule.

Dude.... The "G5 stars" would have to move to play behind what are better players 90% of the time. Be honest here... How often do G5 schools recruit a 4 star player? It's pretty rare. 5 stars are almost unheard of.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Lol. Stars don't matter after the recruiting rankings are done. The AAC had more players taken in the NFL draft than the Big12. Does it matter if JJ Watt was a 2-star? Hell, he started at a MAC school before he transferred to Wisconsin to "play behind" those scary 4/5 stars that cant possibly be beaten out by a G5 star. Remember---a kid can't transfer to Bama if Bama doesn't need him. If Bama's taking a G5 transfer they probably are not real happy with thier 2-deep at that spot. Same thing with the G5 kid--he is going to transfer to a P5 with an opening at that spot--not a log jam.

When I say "G5 stars" I'm talking about stars in the sense of best players, not necessarily recruiting rankings. Nobody is going to transfer to a program where it's more difficult to get playing time 9 times out of 10 the P5 players are bigger and better to start with regardless of their recruiting ranking. Often times at G5 schools the better players tend to be system players who wouldn't be as successful at a P5. In other words they're really good more because they know the system at their current school. They're typically not high end players because they just have raw talent that everybody needs.

If you think honestly think Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc miss that often and need to backfill with G5 players I'm not sure what to tell you.

It may very well be that it runs downhill to a degree. Bama steals from Oklahoma St and Baylor. Oklahoma St and Baylor then steals from Houston and Arky St. That said, yes---I absolutely DO believe that Bama can find players that can not only make thier roster---but would START on thier roster in the G5. Why would you NOT think that? There are players every year in the G5 that go on to be drafted and play in the NFL. If you believe that a G5 player can play in the NFL, but wouldn't be able to make Bama's roster---I dont know what to tell you.

He is not far off. NFL teams draft busts all the time and they have to pay them. Nick Saban is not forced to start a player. If a Houston RB transfers to Alabama and he is smaller, slower, ans weaker than the 4-5 star recruits he is competing against he will not start.

I mean G5 players do not exactly have a good track record in the NFL....

@Brett_McMurphy
Sources told me there are no proposals or votes to allow immediate transfers & if so, earliest rule could happen is not until 2020 or 2021

(09-07-2017 11:57 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I mean G5 players do not exactly have a good track record in the NFL....

Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, DeAngelo Williams. Damn, they suck.

(09-07-2017 11:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 09:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  When the easier lift is lowering the number of scholarships so schools can commit to the kids they have, while cutting overall operational costs...why would this even be an option?

Because the big schools want to keep 85 players so they will continue to have superior depth and can make up for academic and athletic risks who flop.

Right, we can't ask the schools to be more accountable about such things.

Of course, the Ivy League and Patriot League put these measures into account. Army, Navy, Air Force...standards. Stanford and Northwestern in their own way. God forbid schools only take kids they could actually enroll on their own academic merit.

(09-07-2017 12:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 11:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 09:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  When the easier lift is lowering the number of scholarships so schools can commit to the kids they have, while cutting overall operational costs...why would this even be an option?

Because the big schools want to keep 85 players so they will continue to have superior depth and can make up for academic and athletic risks who flop.

Right, we can't ask the schools to be more accountable about such things.

Of course, the Ivy League and Patriot League put these measures into account. Army, Navy, Air Force...standards. Stanford and Northwestern in their own way. God forbid schools only take kids they could actually enroll on their own academic merit.

Amen.

(09-07-2017 11:47 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:42 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 03:58 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  You're not presenting a compelling argument why this would primarily be G5 to P5 movement. There are a limited # of roster positions and a limited amount of playing time. Why transfer just to sit behind a 5-star player? G5's don't get those guys, P5's do. If anything this works in favor of G5's. Why the heck would a player transfer someplace where there's even more competition to see the field?

The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up tiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differntly. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The flow of quality athletes flows up---not down.

This simply is not the case. Arkansas State QB left OU after a year and went JC. He lit up Nebraska and was 8-2 as a starter in his first year of playing FBS last year. Kendrick Edwards left Arkansas and had over 100 yards and a TD in the same game. There are plenty of very talented and often more talented players on the bench at a given P5. Sometimes they have not matured yet, the coach doesn't evaluate talent well, the system is not a good fit, etc. but there are simply not enough slots for 85 scholarship athletes to be happy. Dee Liner is another guy who is flourishing but was buried on the Alabama depth chart where they sign 4 and 5 star guys to sit on the bench.

The player transferring "up" is going to have to contend with a crop of highly touted recruits as soon as he arrives on campus.

Now, it could level some things out AMONG some P5 schools if they could poach from one another within a conference.

Nobody is saying you wont pick up an occasional nice grab from the P5. What Im telling you is your losses will be worse than your pickups. The occasional "win" is not the rule. Sure, sometimes Arky State beats out the Hogs for a recruit. Yeah, sometimes the a 2-star Red Wolf turns out to be better than a Arkansas 4-Star. But overall, the Hogs are a more attrractive place and they will win the talent battle more often. Its essentially high school recruiting all over again--but with your present roster. Youve presented no compelling argument as to why a G5 would consistently gain or even maintain their talent level in face of that same competition when they certainly do not consistently win that battle at the high school recruiting level.

I just dont see how this would end well for the G5. I think it turns the G5 into the the college football version of the the NBA's "D" league.

I don't see the logic in your argument.

You could probably take every Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC, MAC, and MWC team and have trouble finding 10 guys who would for sure start on any top 25 P5 teams.

lol. Now your simply exposing your own lack of knowledge. For starters---some top 25 teams literally are ENTIRELY made up of G5 players because they ARE G5 teams. Secondly---I'll repeat my statement. Every year there are at least 25-50 G5 players that are drafted or end up on NFL rosters. You really think NFL players couldnt make a a top 25 P5 roster? Gimme a break.

That said---what difference does artificial criteria make? There are plenty of P5's that arent top 25---but have winning records and more exposure than many G5 schools. A great player on a crappy G5 might would love an opportunity to start for Texas Tech. Even a 6-6 season at Texas Tech will result in a better bowl than any G5 team is likely to attend after a 10 win season. He will play in front of 60K fans. He will play against UT and Oklahoma rather than Mid Texas Lutheran. He will be on national TV for most every game. No kid that is enjoying great success and believes in himself is going to say "no" to playing at the highest level.

(09-07-2017 12:16 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 11:57 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I mean G5 players do not exactly have a good track record in the NFL....

Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, DeAngelo Williams. Damn, they suck.

Right, there were only 3 times as many P5 players on training camp rosters.

https://herosports.com/nfl/college-footb...s-sec-byby

SEC - 492
B10 - 376
ACC - 371
P12 - 353
B12 - 213

P5 Total = 1805


AAC - 165
MWC - 128
CUSA - 119
MAC - 92
SBC - 71

G5 Total = 575

At the end of the day, it all falls on the student athletic to perform in class. The ones who think they are pro material will failed to get thier degree as about only 5% are less ever play a down in the NFL. Those who realize that colleges allow them 5 more years to play football, while earning a degree, before they enter the professional job market. No system can stop the stupid from making stupid decisions. The stupid will always follow the possibility of making easy big money. Such is life for those who fail to have a backup plan. They say welcome to McDonald's.

(09-07-2017 01:09 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 12:16 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 11:57 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I mean G5 players do not exactly have a good track record in the NFL....

Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, DeAngelo Williams. Damn, they suck.

Right, there were only 3 times as many P5 players on training camp rosters.

https://herosports.com/nfl/college-footb...s-sec-byby

SEC - 492
B10 - 376
ACC - 371
P12 - 353
B12 - 213

P5 Total = 1805


AAC - 165
MWC - 128
CUSA - 119
MAC - 92
SBC - 71

G5 Total = 575

And there it is in black and white. Now you can easily see why even the great SEC would be raiding G5's for talent.

There are 492 SEC players in NFL camps. There are 14 SEC teams, meaning there are only 35 NFL players per SEC team. But it gets worse---that 492 player number includes veterans. So, the actual average number of NFL worthy SEC players in the league at any one time is likely significantly less than 492. Lets say its about half that many. So, roughly 246 players divided by 14 teams means each squad has around 18 NFL worthy players. The other P5 leagues would be an even lower average number of future NFL quality players on each roster. If we use the same logic on the G5, that means there would be almost 300 NFL ready players floating around the G5 for the P5's to scoop up.

Assuming the P5 would target players based on need, there would be plenty of raiding and plenty of P5 starting quality players that the P5 would grab from the G5 if allowed to.

(09-07-2017 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 01:09 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 12:16 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 11:57 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I mean G5 players do not exactly have a good track record in the NFL....

Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, DeAngelo Williams. Damn, they suck.

Right, there were only 3 times as many P5 players on training camp rosters.

https://herosports.com/nfl/college-footb...s-sec-byby

SEC - 492
B10 - 376
ACC - 371
P12 - 353
B12 - 213

P5 Total = 1805


AAC - 165
MWC - 128
CUSA - 119
MAC - 92
SBC - 71

G5 Total = 575

And there it is in black and white. Now you can easily see why even the great SEC would be raiding G5's for talent.

There are 492 SEC players in NFL camps. There are 14 SEC teams, meaning there are only 35 NFL players per SEC team. But it gets worse---that 492 player number includes veterans. So, the actual average number of NFL worthy SEC players in the league at any one time is likely significantly less than 492. Lets say its about half that many. So, roughly 246 players divided by 14 teams means each squad has around 18 NFL worthy players. The other P5 leagues would be an even lower average number of future NFL quality players on each roster. If we use the same logic on the G5, that means there would be almost 300 NFL ready players floating around the G5 for the P5's to scoop up.

Assuming the P5 would target players based on need, there would be plenty of raiding and plenty of P5 starting quality players that the P5 would grab from the G5 if allowed to.

You've taken a chicken little approach to this. Enjoy.

(09-07-2017 01:17 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  At the end of the day, it all falls on the student athletic to perform in class.

If a kid isn't up to the academic challenges and rigors of a major college or university, it falls on the school to assess and act accordingly.

You know, if you can't really read, write, or count, you have no business on a college or university campus. Considering schools have to admit you, how is that on the student?

Cart way in front of horse on that one. The schools are simply failing on this one. Have been for some time.

And, if you've ever been on the receiving end of a college rejection letter to a major college or university, or wait-listed, then see the caliber student who gets to go in, tuition-free, I might add...you might understand. You may even understand how higher ed loses the support, advocacy, and privilege of taxpayer and other funding sources. The schools put out for these kids. They can DEFINITELY do this better. And schools are very fortunate the public hasn't come after them demanding to make good on this stuff. Because they have been failing miserably to operate responsibly.

(09-07-2017 01:39 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 01:09 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 12:16 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 11:57 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I mean G5 players do not exactly have a good track record in the NFL....

Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, DeAngelo Williams. Damn, they suck.

Right, there were only 3 times as many P5 players on training camp rosters.

https://herosports.com/nfl/college-footb...s-sec-byby

SEC - 492
B10 - 376
ACC - 371
P12 - 353
B12 - 213

P5 Total = 1805


AAC - 165
MWC - 128
CUSA - 119
MAC - 92
SBC - 71

G5 Total = 575

And there it is in black and white. Now you can easily see why even the great SEC would be raiding G5's for talent.

There are 492 SEC players in NFL camps. There are 14 SEC teams, meaning there are only 35 NFL players per SEC team. But it gets worse---that 492 player number includes veterans. So, the actual average number of NFL worthy SEC players in the league at any one time is likely significantly less than 492. Lets say its about half that many. So, roughly 246 players divided by 14 teams means each squad has around 18 NFL worthy players. The other P5 leagues would be an even lower average number of future NFL quality players on each roster. If we use the same logic on the G5, that means there would be almost 300 NFL ready players floating around the G5 for the P5's to scoop up.

Assuming the P5 would target players based on need, there would be plenty of raiding and plenty of P5 starting quality players that the P5 would grab from the G5 if allowed to.

You've taken a chicken little approach to this. Enjoy.

Its hard to hear you clearly with your head buried in the sand.

(09-07-2017 02:21 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its hard to hear you clearly with your head buried in the sand.

I'm not the only one who thinks this could could actually benefit the "lower programs". I've laid out my logic for it. Either way life will go on for me.

(09-07-2017 02:27 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 02:21 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its hard to hear you clearly with your head buried in the sand.

I'm not the only one who thinks this could could actually benefit the "lower programs". I've laid out my logic for it. Either way life will go on for me.

I honestly think it's going to be more of a benefit than a detriment for the G5. For every impact player that transfers up to a P5 you are likely to see players buried on the depth chart who transfer and make a difference at a G5 school.

In Clemson's case I doubt we benefit from it much at all. Dabo prefers to build the roster from recruiting rather than transfers. The only grad transfer we have received was a QB from Stanford in 2014. He was 4th string and only transferred to get closer to home (he was from SC). We haven't taken a JUCO since 2006 and the only underclassmen transfers we have taken n have all been walk-ons.

(09-07-2017 02:27 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 02:21 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its hard to hear you clearly with your head buried in the sand.

I'm not the only one who thinks this could could actually benefit the "lower programs". I've laid out my logic for it. Either way life will go on for me.

I honestly dont think it will happen because the lower and mid P5's will likely be as against it as the G5 schools. Either way---I agree----life will go on for everyone. Its just sports.

(09-07-2017 01:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-07-2017 11:47 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:42 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up tiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differntly. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The flow of quality athletes flows up---not down.

This simply is not the case. Arkansas State QB left OU after a year and went JC. He lit up Nebraska and was 8-2 as a starter in his first year of playing FBS last year. Kendrick Edwards left Arkansas and had over 100 yards and a TD in the same game. There are plenty of very talented and often more talented players on the bench at a given P5. Sometimes they have not matured yet, the coach doesn't evaluate talent well, the system is not a good fit, etc. but there are simply not enough slots for 85 scholarship athletes to be happy. Dee Liner is another guy who is flourishing but was buried on the Alabama depth chart where they sign 4 and 5 star guys to sit on the bench.

The player transferring "up" is going to have to contend with a crop of highly touted recruits as soon as he arrives on campus.

Now, it could level some things out AMONG some P5 schools if they could poach from one another within a conference.

Nobody is saying you wont pick up an occasional nice grab from the P5. What Im telling you is your losses will be worse than your pickups. The occasional "win" is not the rule. Sure, sometimes Arky State beats out the Hogs for a recruit. Yeah, sometimes the a 2-star Red Wolf turns out to be better than a Arkansas 4-Star. But overall, the Hogs are a more attrractive place and they will win the talent battle more often. Its essentially high school recruiting all over again--but with your present roster. Youve presented no compelling argument as to why a G5 would consistently gain or even maintain their talent level in face of that same competition when they certainly do not consistently win that battle at the high school recruiting level.

I just dont see how this would end well for the G5. I think it turns the G5 into the the college football version of the the NBA's "D" league.

I don't see the logic in your argument.

You could probably take every Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC, MAC, and MWC team and have trouble finding 10 guys who would for sure start on any top 25 P5 teams.

lol. Now your simply exposing your own lack of knowledge. For starters---some top 25 teams literally are ENTIRELY made up of G5 players because they ARE G5 teams. Secondly---I'll repeat my statement. Every year there are at least 25-50 G5 players that are drafted or end up on NFL rosters. You really think NFL players couldnt make a a top 25 P5 roster? Gimme a break.

That said---what difference does artificial criteria make? There are plenty of P5's that arent top 25---but have winning records and more exposure than many G5 schools. A great player on a crappy G5 might would love an opportunity to start for Texas Tech. Even a 6-6 season at Texas Tech will result in a better bowl than any G5 team is likely to attend after a 10 win season. He will play in front of 60K fans. He will play against UT and Oklahoma rather than Mid Texas Lutheran. He will be on national TV for most every game. No kid that is enjoying great success and believes in himself is going to say "no" to playing at the highest level.

I specifically said top 25 because the same programs tend to be there. The Alabama's, USC's, Ohio State's of college football. And my statement again was that you can take every G5 team and you will struggle to find guys who would start on those teams. That does not mean that players who get actual playing time can't develop into good players because of the experience they are getting. And that's the entire flipping point of this conversation. P5 teams have guys sitting on the bench not playing who could start on G5 teams. They could be getting experience and becoming NFL prospects. But they don't transfer because by the time the realize they wont get any playing time it's often too late.

Could someone like the 6'0 USF QB probably challenge for a starting position somewhere like Iowa State? Sure, but even that's not guranteed. Iowa State is a pretty average to poor team. And they are able to land a 6'4 210 QB who was a 4 star recruit.....

So color me unimpressed about the idea that G5 players will be transferring to P5 schools very often....These guys didn't get recruited in the first place for a reason.

One thing I was thinking about today is that this will result in fewer transfers down to the FCS level as well. I watched Austin Peay last week and half of their starters seemed to have played at an FBS school at some point (two of the starters on the OL went to SEC schools). In the future I imagine kids like that are just going to go to FBS schools instead of the FCS.

Was it ever determined if schools would be picking up more of the administrative "say" in approving transfers to ensure schools were "committing" to the kids? It's a silly, if not moot point; they at some point have to oversee it all, but, on the surface, it looked like athletic departments couldn't just snip students out of the school just because of a coaching regime change or other matters.