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Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
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HeartOfDixie Online
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Post: #61
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
I doubt this will end up taking place.
09-06-2017 08:17 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 03:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If anyone truly cares about student athletes, they would do well to keep the probability of turning pro in the back of their minds. Based on the latest info I've seen from the NCAA, the statistics are broken down by sport. For example, for getting into the NFL from college ball, the chances are 1.5%. The NCAA methodology is based solely on draft picks, and if you want to be really generous and include rookie free agents also signed by each team, then I'd double the number to a 3% that a college football player MAKES it to the NFL. That's not counting on whether the guy can make a solid - or even a mediocre career. That's just to walk thru the front door.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...170314.pdf

Bottom line is if you really cared about these kids, then the correct answer is for them to simply stay put and get the degree.

I don't have statistics for the percentage of kids who play football on scholarship who otherwise is not college material. The numbers of kids like this as a percentage of the team has to be significant. Maybe not a majority but I'd guess it ranges from 20% to 40% from team to team. Maybe it's even higher, IDK. In those cases, the REAL SOLUTION is to not go play college ball at all but to go to a TRADE SCHOOL.

That a load of horse turd.
09-06-2017 09:29 PM
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Post: #63
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 04:42 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  The player transferring "up" is going to have to contend with a crop of highly touted recruits as soon as he arrives on campus.

Not necessarily. The P5 will use this rule to fill needs from G5 rosters.

Let's say ArkSt has a 4th-year Jr. QB. Two-star out of HS, but worked the weights and nutrition and took to his coaching. Now he's a three-year starter, threw for 2,500 last year with 36 TDs, all conference.

August comes around. In Tuscaloosa, No.1 QB breaks his leg. No.2 is arrested for diddling a goat. No.3 fails his Barbecue Studies final.

When September comes around, our boy from ArkState is wearing one of those asinine numbered helmets and ArkState is starting some 2-star true freshman since no one wanted to come there to sit the bench behind WonderBoy.
09-06-2017 09:55 PM
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Post: #64
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:58 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:34 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is pretty serious as it literally means the end of G5 football as we know it. It will no longer be competitive on the field vs the P5.

How do you figure?

Because you will see a flow of star G5 players up to P5 schools and a flow of underperforming P5 players down to G5 schools. How long will a star QB stay at a G5 when Bama is on the line and there is no penalty for transferring. It aint rocket science. The best high schools players overwhelmingly select P5 destinations. Why exactly do you think proven star G5 players would be any different given the opportunity?

You're not presenting a compelling argument why this would primarily be G5 to P5 movement. There are a limited # of roster positions and a limited amount of playing time. Why transfer just to sit behind a 5-star player? G5's don't get those guys, P5's do. If anything this works in favor of G5's. Why the heck would a player transfer someplace where there's even more competition to see the field?

The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up thiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differently. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The quality athletes arent going to step down---only the ones that have no chance of getting on the field are interested in such a move. For the G5, the net quality flow will be out---not in. The G5 survives by developing 2-stars the P5 passed over in HS into FBS 4/5-stars. Under the new rule, the P5 would be able to get those too.

Look, it doesnt matter in G5 vs G5 battles. Its about the differnece between G5 and P5. Right now there are G5 teams that are competitive against top tier P5 teams. That wont be the case withing 5-10 years under the proposed new rule.
Dude.... The "G5 stars" would have to move to play behind what are better players 90% of the time. Be honest here... How often do G5 schools recruit a 4 star player? It's pretty rare. 5 stars are almost unheard of.

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09-06-2017 10:05 PM
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Post: #65
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 08:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I doubt this will end up taking place.

Can't see it because no one trusts no one else.

I don't believe there would be near the "raiding" of G5 people think would happen. Off the top of my head, we have two transfers from OU sitting this year, one from Boise. Have guys playing this year from OU and Texas Tech via juco and two from Arkansas and one from Bama. Only have two that have transferred "up" and neither likely to do more than later game mop up or some special teams.

Trent Lee going Tulane to Nebraska is a bit of a rarity.

Free transfer would hurt FCS worse than FBS schools. McNeese picked up a QB from us who probably would have gone to ULM if hadn't had to sit, and Murray State got a QB who probably would still have gone FCS.
09-06-2017 10:08 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
I see the better G5 lineman moving to P5. If this does happen, imo, it's the lineman that will see the biggest impact.
09-06-2017 10:25 PM
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HeartOfDixie Online
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Post: #67
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:08 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I doubt this will end up taking place.

Can't see it because no one trusts no one else.

I don't believe there would be near the "raiding" of G5 people think would happen. Off the top of my head, we have two transfers from OU sitting this year, one from Boise. Have guys playing this year from OU and Texas Tech via juco and two from Arkansas and one from Bama. Only have two that have transferred "up" and neither likely to do more than later game mop up or some special teams.

Trent Lee going Tulane to Nebraska is a bit of a rarity.

Free transfer would hurt FCS worse than FBS schools. McNeese picked up a QB from us who probably would have gone to ULM if hadn't had to sit, and Murray State got a QB who probably would still have gone FCS.

Good Post.

It would also impact P5 to P5 transfers and kids would essentially become mercenaries. Transfers would become rampant and make everything difficult for just about everybody.

Now, I don't blame kids for wanting to play under a bigger set of lights. But, there is more to the game than that--or at least there should be.
09-06-2017 10:37 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #68
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:05 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:58 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:34 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  How do you figure?

Because you will see a flow of star G5 players up to P5 schools and a flow of underperforming P5 players down to G5 schools. How long will a star QB stay at a G5 when Bama is on the line and there is no penalty for transferring. It aint rocket science. The best high schools players overwhelmingly select P5 destinations. Why exactly do you think proven star G5 players would be any different given the opportunity?

You're not presenting a compelling argument why this would primarily be G5 to P5 movement. There are a limited # of roster positions and a limited amount of playing time. Why transfer just to sit behind a 5-star player? G5's don't get those guys, P5's do. If anything this works in favor of G5's. Why the heck would a player transfer someplace where there's even more competition to see the field?

The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up thiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differently. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The quality athletes arent going to step down---only the ones that have no chance of getting on the field are interested in such a move. For the G5, the net quality flow will be out---not in. The G5 survives by developing 2-stars the P5 passed over in HS into FBS 4/5-stars. Under the new rule, the P5 would be able to get those too.

Look, it doesnt matter in G5 vs G5 battles. Its about the differnece between G5 and P5. Right now there are G5 teams that are competitive against top tier P5 teams. That wont be the case withing 5-10 years under the proposed new rule.
Dude.... The "G5 stars" would have to move to play behind what are better players 90% of the time. Be honest here... How often do G5 schools recruit a 4 star player? It's pretty rare. 5 stars are almost unheard of.

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Lol. Stars don't matter after the recruiting rankings are done. The AAC had more players taken in the NFL draft than the Big12. Does it matter if JJ Watt was a 2-star? Hell, he started at a MAC school before he transferred to Wisconsin to "play behind" those scary 4/5 stars that cant possibly be beaten out by a G5 star. Remember---a kid can't transfer to Bama if Bama doesn't need him. If Bama's taking a G5 transfer they probably are not real happy with thier 2-deep at that spot. Same thing with the G5 kid--he is going to transfer to a P5 with an opening at that spot--not a log jam.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 11:02 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-06-2017 10:58 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #69
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:08 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I doubt this will end up taking place.

Can't see it because no one trusts no one else.

I don't believe there would be near the "raiding" of G5 people think would happen. Off the top of my head, we have two transfers from OU sitting this year, one from Boise. Have guys playing this year from OU and Texas Tech via juco and two from Arkansas and one from Bama. Only have two that have transferred "up" and neither likely to do more than later game mop up or some special teams.

Trent Lee going Tulane to Nebraska is a bit of a rarity.

Free transfer would hurt FCS worse than FBS schools. McNeese picked up a QB from us who probably would have gone to ULM if hadn't had to sit, and Murray State got a QB who probably would still have gone FCS.

I don't think you can look at the current transfer landscape and project it onto a "immediately eligible" football environment. There's quite a bit of transferring going on in basketball where players are often immediately eligible--and football rosters are almost 10 times as large. For certain---I would think a G5 hanging onto a Paxton Lynch would be virtually impossible after one good year.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 11:14 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-06-2017 11:08 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #70
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:08 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I doubt this will end up taking place.

Can't see it because no one trusts no one else.

I don't believe there would be near the "raiding" of G5 people think would happen. Off the top of my head, we have two transfers from OU sitting this year, one from Boise. Have guys playing this year from OU and Texas Tech via juco and two from Arkansas and one from Bama. Only have two that have transferred "up" and neither likely to do more than later game mop up or some special teams.

Trent Lee going Tulane to Nebraska is a bit of a rarity.

Free transfer would hurt FCS worse than FBS schools. McNeese picked up a QB from us who probably would have gone to ULM if hadn't had to sit, and Murray State got a QB who probably would still have gone FCS.

I don't think you can look at the current transfer landscape and project it onto a "immediately eligible" football environment. There's quite a bit of transferring going on in basketball where players are often immediately eligible--and football rosters are almost 10 times as large. For certain---I would think a G5 hanging onto a Paxton Lynch would be virtually impossible after one good year.

Just as likely that P5 schools would struggle to hold on to their #2 QB.

There are a lot of transfers in hoops but most are going to where they can gain minutes.
09-06-2017 11:17 PM
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panite Offline
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RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 08:03 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  One other thing, in addition to the G5 the lower tiered P5 schools should be wary of this rule as well. If for example, an under the radar guy tears it up at a Washington State, Kansas, Rutgers, etc. he could easily be poached by a higher tiered P5 school.

Most players at lower P5 schools and 1-AA schools are there because the better schools didn't want them anyway. An example is the current Wyoming QB who bulked up after a couple of years in school. He won't be around next year for a P5 school to grab because he will definitely go pro after this year if he has the year the media is projecting and he is not a senior anyway. Yes a few lower school players will get poached like Judco's if they excel in their early playing years but I see the better players following their coaches that leave and more than likely the players not starting at the better schools moving down like they do now to get the first string playing time to get to the pros. Don't think this will be as negative as many may think. 07-coffee3
09-06-2017 11:50 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just as likely that P5 schools would struggle to hold on to their #2 QB.

Two Alabama QBs transferred away from Bama during last season. Saban was not happy.

If this proposal never gets implemented, it will be because coaches at the king programs want to keep their "extra" 4 and 5 star players on their bench as insurance.
09-07-2017 12:17 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #73
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 11:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:08 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I doubt this will end up taking place.

Can't see it because no one trusts no one else.

I don't believe there would be near the "raiding" of G5 people think would happen. Off the top of my head, we have two transfers from OU sitting this year, one from Boise. Have guys playing this year from OU and Texas Tech via juco and two from Arkansas and one from Bama. Only have two that have transferred "up" and neither likely to do more than later game mop up or some special teams.

Trent Lee going Tulane to Nebraska is a bit of a rarity.

Free transfer would hurt FCS worse than FBS schools. McNeese picked up a QB from us who probably would have gone to ULM if hadn't had to sit, and Murray State got a QB who probably would still have gone FCS.

I don't think you can look at the current transfer landscape and project it onto a "immediately eligible" football environment. There's quite a bit of transferring going on in basketball where players are often immediately eligible--and football rosters are almost 10 times as large. For certain---I would think a G5 hanging onto a Paxton Lynch would be virtually impossible after one good year.

Just as likely that P5 schools would struggle to hold on to their #2 QB.

There are a lot of transfers in hoops but most are going to where they can gain minutes.

I don't know about that. Pretty good chance a #2 QB is going to play these days.
09-07-2017 12:34 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-07-2017 12:34 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I don't know about that. Pretty good chance a #2 QB is going to play these days.
Yeah, I was thinking it would hit the Sophomores and Juniors 3 deep in P5 depth charts more than those who are 2 deep.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2017 01:29 AM by BruceMcF.)
09-07-2017 01:29 AM
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RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:05 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:58 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Because you will see a flow of star G5 players up to P5 schools and a flow of underperforming P5 players down to G5 schools. How long will a star QB stay at a G5 when Bama is on the line and there is no penalty for transferring. It aint rocket science. The best high schools players overwhelmingly select P5 destinations. Why exactly do you think proven star G5 players would be any different given the opportunity?

You're not presenting a compelling argument why this would primarily be G5 to P5 movement. There are a limited # of roster positions and a limited amount of playing time. Why transfer just to sit behind a 5-star player? G5's don't get those guys, P5's do. If anything this works in favor of G5's. Why the heck would a player transfer someplace where there's even more competition to see the field?

The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up thiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differently. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The quality athletes arent going to step down---only the ones that have no chance of getting on the field are interested in such a move. For the G5, the net quality flow will be out---not in. The G5 survives by developing 2-stars the P5 passed over in HS into FBS 4/5-stars. Under the new rule, the P5 would be able to get those too.

Look, it doesnt matter in G5 vs G5 battles. Its about the differnece between G5 and P5. Right now there are G5 teams that are competitive against top tier P5 teams. That wont be the case withing 5-10 years under the proposed new rule.
Dude.... The "G5 stars" would have to move to play behind what are better players 90% of the time. Be honest here... How often do G5 schools recruit a 4 star player? It's pretty rare. 5 stars are almost unheard of.

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Lol. Stars don't matter after the recruiting rankings are done. The AAC had more players taken in the NFL draft than the Big12. Does it matter if JJ Watt was a 2-star? Hell, he started at a MAC school before he transferred to Wisconsin to "play behind" those scary 4/5 stars that cant possibly be beaten out by a G5 star. Remember---a kid can't transfer to Bama if Bama doesn't need him. If Bama's taking a G5 transfer they probably are not real happy with thier 2-deep at that spot. Same thing with the G5 kid--he is going to transfer to a P5 with an opening at that spot--not a log jam.

When I say "G5 stars" I'm talking about stars in the sense of best players, not necessarily recruiting rankings. Nobody is going to transfer to a program where it's more difficult to get playing time 9 times out of 10 the P5 players are bigger and better to start with regardless of their recruiting ranking. Often times at G5 schools the better players tend to be system players who wouldn't be as successful at a P5. In other words they're really good more because they know the system at their current school. They're typically not high end players because they just have raw talent that everybody needs.

If you think honestly think Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc miss that often and need to backfill with G5 players I'm not sure what to tell you.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2017 09:24 AM by Hood-rich.)
09-07-2017 09:22 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
When the easier lift is lowering the number of scholarships so schools can commit to the kids they have, while cutting overall operational costs...why would this even be an option?
09-07-2017 09:37 AM
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RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 04:11 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Are we going back to one-year scholarships too?

I would think this would be a must. Otherwise the schools could write a non-transfer agreement into the scholarship contract. I.e, you will play at this school for a miminum of three years. If you transfer, you lose the scholarship and have to back-pay.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2017 09:53 AM by Soobahk40050.)
09-07-2017 09:52 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-07-2017 09:22 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:05 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 04:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 03:58 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  You're not presenting a compelling argument why this would primarily be G5 to P5 movement. There are a limited # of roster positions and a limited amount of playing time. Why transfer just to sit behind a 5-star player? G5's don't get those guys, P5's do. If anything this works in favor of G5's. Why the heck would a player transfer someplace where there's even more competition to see the field?

The numbers flow would probably be about equal. Its a quality issue. The G5 would be sending up thiier stars where as the flow from the P5 would be underperforming busts that are buried 3 deep on the depth chart. The P5 isnt interested in G5 busts and P5 stars arent moving to the G5. The exchange of numbers might be the same---hell, it may even be more P5 players moving to the G5 (though I doubt it). The key here is which way is the quality flowing. Lets put it differently. How many quality players on your team transferred to an FCS school (where they are immediately eligible) in order to gain immediate playing time? Probably not many. The quality athletes arent going to step down---only the ones that have no chance of getting on the field are interested in such a move. For the G5, the net quality flow will be out---not in. The G5 survives by developing 2-stars the P5 passed over in HS into FBS 4/5-stars. Under the new rule, the P5 would be able to get those too.

Look, it doesnt matter in G5 vs G5 battles. Its about the differnece between G5 and P5. Right now there are G5 teams that are competitive against top tier P5 teams. That wont be the case withing 5-10 years under the proposed new rule.
Dude.... The "G5 stars" would have to move to play behind what are better players 90% of the time. Be honest here... How often do G5 schools recruit a 4 star player? It's pretty rare. 5 stars are almost unheard of.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Lol. Stars don't matter after the recruiting rankings are done. The AAC had more players taken in the NFL draft than the Big12. Does it matter if JJ Watt was a 2-star? Hell, he started at a MAC school before he transferred to Wisconsin to "play behind" those scary 4/5 stars that cant possibly be beaten out by a G5 star. Remember---a kid can't transfer to Bama if Bama doesn't need him. If Bama's taking a G5 transfer they probably are not real happy with thier 2-deep at that spot. Same thing with the G5 kid--he is going to transfer to a P5 with an opening at that spot--not a log jam.

When I say "G5 stars" I'm talking about stars in the sense of best players, not necessarily recruiting rankings. Nobody is going to transfer to a program where it's more difficult to get playing time 9 times out of 10 the P5 players are bigger and better to start with regardless of their recruiting ranking. Often times at G5 schools the better players tend to be system players who wouldn't be as successful at a P5. In other words they're really good more because they know the system at their current school. They're typically not high end players because they just have raw talent that everybody needs.

If you think honestly think Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc miss that often and need to backfill with G5 players I'm not sure what to tell you.

It may very well be that it runs downhill to a degree. Bama steals from Oklahoma St and Baylor. Oklahoma St and Baylor then steals from Houston and Arky St. That said, yes---I absolutely DO believe that Bama can find players that can not only make thier roster---but would START on thier roster in the G5. Why would you NOT think that? There are players every year in the G5 that go on to be drafted and play in the NFL. If you believe that a G5 player can play in the NFL, but wouldn't be able to make Bama's roster---I dont know what to tell you.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2017 10:21 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-07-2017 10:20 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #79
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
The answer is likely to be an resounding "no" but could we see a revival of JV teams at the collegiate level (which was in place until the 70s)? The top tier of college football separates itself (say 48 schools). Those 48 schools develop JV programs that compete in FBS with the rest of the FBS schools. That way, a school like Alabama can have their monster team and a team with players of high potential that would likely be starters at a G5 but that they could groom to their own system.
09-07-2017 10:41 AM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
This is a disaster in the making.
09-07-2017 10:48 AM
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