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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:26 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool

My advice... Do not do it.

College Football, outside the "Power" Conferences, is an endangered species. For most of us, it will not be tenable over the next decade...either we will move down or have to disband it.

If Wichita State wastes money trying to restart football, administrators should be investigated for fiscal malfeasance.

Besides which, the State of Kansas, thanks to your brilliant Governor, is in such financial straits that there is no more money for such extravagance.

This is the correct answer.

I know what I'm going to say might offend a football-playing conference but I think college football peaked about 5-10 years ago. The concussion issue, the money payout issue (say goodbye to big payouts from ESPN and others after they overbid the hell out of it), the lowering TV ratings, etc. all seem to point a general decline of the sport in the future. It's still the king but I'm not sure why anybody would want to invest half a billion dollars in something that has peaked and is in a downward trajectory.

And as others have mentioned, WSU wanted desperately to get into a better conference. They struck gold in that they did so WITHOUT adding the unnecessary expense of football.

It's just totally a different landscape now. 10 years ago it might have had legs and looked achievable/sustainable, and actually made sense. Now? Not even practical.

There will never be football at WSU again and with good reason. The end. Go Navy.
06-25-2017 10:22 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #42
Football at WSU
Half a billion dollars is laughable


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06-25-2017 10:23 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:11 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:09 PM)fastbow Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:55 PM)shock Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool


WSU is explicitly a non-football member of the AAC. It was a condition of joining the AAC. Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a very valuable SEC or Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.


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The University of Kansas would sooner have every member of the Kansas Board of Regents murdered than they would allow Wichita State to be Big 12 members. You really cannot contemplate how much they hate us and are afraid of that very scenario. We could be national champions in football and other sports and KU would find some way to keep us out of the Big 12. It's all they have, and they defend it zealously.

Oh, we are learning

Hahahahaha
06-25-2017 10:24 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:23 PM)panama Wrote:  Half a billion dollars is laughable


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Why?

Is a quarter billion better sounding? Still not a wise investment.
06-25-2017 10:25 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #45
Football at WSU
Research is not hard. Plenty of startups to look at in last 15 to 20'years. None spent that much.


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06-25-2017 10:26 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:26 PM)panama Wrote:  Research is not hard. Plenty of startups to look at in last 15 to 20'years. None spent that much.


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To play FCS football or FBS football? And I imagine starting up football 20 years ago was a little cheaper than it is now.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 10:28 PM by ShockerFever.)
06-25-2017 10:27 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #47
Football at WSU
FBS. I know we,have not spent even $100M on football even with the stadium renovation. Nobody has.


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06-25-2017 10:28 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:23 PM)panama Wrote:  Half a billion dollars is laughable


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I agree. If we could build the stadium downtown with it being a community stadium that Wichita State only plays in and doesn't own... it could essentially be free. Then we allocate the $2M+ property tax benefit from the city towards football, add a few women's sports, hopefully get something from the conference we play in, and how much is it going to cost us again?

We can start FCS football immediately with the plan of moving to D1 as soon as we are eligible. Talks for a major downtown stadium would begin the moment we play our first game. It would require a campaign of sorts that would coincide with us joining a Power 6 league.


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06-25-2017 10:32 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:28 PM)panama Wrote:  FBS. I know we,have not spent even $100M on football even with the stadium renovation. Nobody has.


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Renovating a stadium doesn't cost near as much as tearing down an old stadium and building a new 50,000+ seat one completely from scratch, no?
06-25-2017 10:37 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Football at WSU
Cessna Stadium would be fine for FCS football after say a 15-20 million dollar renovation. Moreover, having only 65 scholarship players and playing in a more geographically reasonable conference like MVFC would make football FAR easier to pay for.

Cessna Stadium:
[Image: 0.jpg]

FCS football is better than no football.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 10:46 PM by UofMemphis.)
06-25-2017 10:45 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:45 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  FCS football is better than no football.

I'm not sure about that one. Attendance would be similar for both.

Cessna is a good track and field stadium, not a good football stadium for this day and age.
06-25-2017 11:08 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #52
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

(06-25-2017 06:08 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

And College Football Playiff deal is through 2025 season

(06-25-2017 08:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  then you have a 7 member Big 12 wanting to get back to 12 (so their name finally makes sense again, lol)

BYU, Cincy, UConn, Memphis, CSU, Boise St, Houston, etc...all the 'usual suspects' will be back playing musical chairs for the open spots.

'may the odds be ever in your favor!' cause it'll be a free-for-all

Gleaning a few eyebrow-raising quotes from the BYU thread, it appears our timetable is set for us. We have 7.5 years to restart football and be ready to fill a possible spot in either a new conference or this one. I think if we don't have a football program running by then we never will and we may pay a serious price at the time. That is unless we're still a top basketball program. Staying in the top 20 every year from here on out seems a lot more difficult than just developing and maintaining a respectable D1 football program. Everything goes in cycles. Few can stay on top forever without suffering down cycles (just ask a few notable schools in this conference). If we find ourselves alone in the AAC with all the basketball powers having left and wannabees (with football) as their replacement, we're gonna be in a world of hurt. Maybe even worse than where we were in the MVC last year.

Fastbow tries to make the argument that K|UCK-City would be left out from another major power conference shuffle, I don't know if I buy that. But imagine if it came to pass, how much worse would our fortunes be with no program at all? We're sailing without a compass right now.


T


...03-cool

yeah, 2025 is going to be interesting...
06-25-2017 11:28 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

(06-25-2017 06:08 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

And College Football Playiff deal is through 2025 season

(06-25-2017 08:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  then you have a 7 member Big 12 wanting to get back to 12 (so their name finally makes sense again, lol)

BYU, Cincy, UConn, Memphis, CSU, Boise St, Houston, etc...all the 'usual suspects' will be back playing musical chairs for the open spots.

'may the odds be ever in your favor!' cause it'll be a free-for-all

Gleaning a few eyebrow-raising quotes from the BYU thread, it appears our timetable is set for us. We have 7.5 years to restart football and be ready to fill a possible spot in either a new conference or this one. I think if we don't have a football program running by then we never will and we may pay a serious price at the time. That is unless we're still a top basketball program. Staying in the top 20 every year from here on out seems a lot more difficult than just developing and maintaining a respectable D1 football program. Everything goes in cycles. Few can stay on top forever without suffering down cycles (just ask a few notable schools in this conference). If we find ourselves alone in the AAC with all the basketball powers having left and wannabees (with football) as their replacement, we're gonna be in a world of hurt. Maybe even worse than where we were in the MVC last year.

Fastbow tries to make the argument that K|UCK-City would be left out from another major power conference shuffle, I don't know if I buy that. But imagine if it came to pass, how much worse would our fortunes be with no program at all? We're sailing without a compass right now.


T


...03-cool

Fastbow is entitled to his opinion, which I responded to in post #15 and provided a link to prove that the B10 is interested in Kansas.

Regarding the “7.5 years to restart football,” the B12 is dysfunctional and in serious trouble when its GOR expires. They took bribe money from the networks not to expand—which was peanuts compared to what they could have received with expansion. Can you imagine the networks trying to bribe the B1G not to take Rutgers, the SEC not to take MIZZOU, the ACC not to take Louisville, and the PAC not to take Utah? This clearly illustrates that certain schools in the B12 are definitely leaving when the GOR expires and how dysfunctional the conference really is. Consequently, Wichita St fans should be concerned about what happens to the B12. Also, please consider the conference that had the most potential B12 expansion candidates—the one that your school just joined!

Furthermore, the key to the survival of this conference is what happens to WV (West Virginia). If WV is one of the B12 leftovers, this conference will get decimated. The B12 has discussed in the past about building a bridge to WV. Once its GOR expires and certain schools leave (I anticipate at least 5), the remaining schools will use “American” parts to build a bridge to WV. They will also likely expand past 12 schools to imitate the other “Autonomous” conferences. As a result, there might not be enough schools left for the American to once again raid CUSA. Thus, it could be too weakened by the B12 raid to survive. WS would be in serious trouble for not having a football program should this occur.

Therefore, if WS at least plays FCS, it increases the probability of getting an invite because the B12 leftovers would likely receive a 2 year notice that the other schools are leaving; also, the American would need replacements. If WS decides to go the FCS route, the school should try to reach out to Chip Kelly or another coach that had success on the FBS level. Kelly's system was not that successful in the NFL but worked great on the FBS level. He could build WS football into an entertaining high scoring program that might get noticed and consideration by a rebuilding B12 or a depleted American....
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 12:50 AM by Underdog.)
06-26-2017 12:19 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:37 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 10:28 PM)panama Wrote:  FBS. I know we,have not spent even $100M on football even with the stadium renovation. Nobody has.


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Renovating a stadium doesn't cost near as much as tearing down an old stadium and building a new 50,000+ seat one completely from scratch, no?
...and still gets yo u nowhere near half a billion dollars. And why would you need 50k seats to start?

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06-26-2017 06:23 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Football at WSU
Houston's TDECU stadium is only 40K seats, but expandable.

I'd say something between 20-25 but expandable would be the way to go. But I don't think Wichita State really wants football.
06-26-2017 06:57 AM
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tcufrog86 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 10:37 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 10:28 PM)panama Wrote:  FBS. I know we,have not spent even $100M on football even with the stadium renovation. Nobody has.


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Renovating a stadium doesn't cost near as much as tearing down an old stadium and building a new 50,000+ seat one completely from scratch, no?

It depends on the existing structure and what work it would take to renovate it to get it to where you would want it to be including changes to building codes, ADA compliance, etc...

TCU ended up tearing down about 95% of the old Amon Carter Stadium to build the new one. Only the first 10 or so rows and the playing surface were left. I'm not 100% familiar with the entire process TCU went through but I find it hard to believe that renovation wasn't also explored to see what the more cost effective option would be. Given that TCU mostly tore down and rebuilt I'm guessing it was more cost effective for what our end goal was.
06-26-2017 08:32 AM
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tigerjeb Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Football at WSU
I was only at old Carter Stadium once but it reminded me a lot of Rice Stadium. the rebuild was definitely the correct move.
06-26-2017 11:31 AM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

(06-25-2017 08:16 PM)panama Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:54 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:43 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:10 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  WSU fans have to remember...need drives expansion.

AAC needed another hoops power since we only received 2 NCAA bids last season...WSU needed the AAC because they won 30 games and got stuck with a 10 seed.

there was mutual need.

the AAC does not need another football member and WSU does not need football to be successful. There is no mutual need there.

now I get the want for a football team, but football teams are very expensive. WSU's best bet would be to spend 15 million to renovate Cessna Stadium to FCS standards and stick this hypothetical FCS football team in a geographically sensible FCS football conference like say the MVFC.

best of both worlds IMHO.

The need would only arise if the AAC added another football program which I think they will in the future. A need would also arise if the AAC lost a football program... I'd rather not think about that scenario.

Just comparing the market between Tulsa and Wichita and as I said, there isn't another major football team within 2 hrs. of driving from downtown Wichita.

KSU = 130.4 mi (2 hrs 2 mins)
K|UCK = 166.6 mi (2 hrs 23 mins)
OU = 177.1 mi (2 hrs 41 mins)
OSU = 127.9 mi (1 hr 57 mins)
Tulsa = 179.2 mi (2 hrs 38 mins)

From Tulsa's perspective:

OU = 123.2 mi (1 hr 55 mins)
OSU = 69.6 mi (1 hr 7 mins) -not good
UA = 111.4 mi (1 hr 55 mins)


An interesting side note about Wichita is that there are over a million people living within 100 miles of downtown. Rural areas in Kansas lean heavily purple though.


T


...03-cool

but WSU is coupled with Navy football in the AAC. moreover, we don't have the time to bring WSU football along.

if we needed a football team it would make more sense to bring in an all-sports member.

it's FCS or bust for WSU IMHO.


I would think if football was that big of a deal to Wichita , they would have bought it along independent of getting an AAC invite.


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Football was never restarted because it would have required two miracles; first, a large sum of money, and second, a D1 football conference invite waiting that wouldn't kill basketball and baseball. We simply never had those options available to us in the modern era. Now we're in the perfect conference to satisfy all those objectives. As I said before, Wichita State is not going to restart football with the end goal being an FCS program. D1 has to be the ultimate goal.

If we restarted football now, the only miracle we'd have to hope for is a spot coming open in the AAC (not a huge miracle considering the conference's past). Our 2nd choice would be to play football only in a lower-level D1 conference. And all the while we'd have our "insurance policy" in place when whatever happens in 2025 happens.

If I could look into a crystal ball and see that this conference will remain stable for the next 10 years, I wouldn't be thinking this way. But I would say there is a 5% probability of that happening. Hopefully the only changes will be swapping ECU out for the ChicKUnHawks in basketball.


T


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06-26-2017 12:39 PM
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pvtlamb Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Football at WSU
Had WSU not dropped football in the Fall of 1986, (I attended the last WSU game @ Arizona State), then we would likely been part of the new Mountain West with Tulsa, born partly out of the old WAC. After that who knows.
06-26-2017 08:38 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Football at WSU
(06-26-2017 08:38 PM)pvtlamb Wrote:  Had WSU not dropped football in the Fall of 1986, (I attended the last WSU game @ Arizona State), then we would likely been part of the new Mountain West with Tulsa, born partly out of the old WAC. After that who knows.

Dropping football relegated us to an existence in a conference that has been mid-majoring itself for the last 30 years. We barely escaped (if you call leaving 20 years after Tulsa escaping). Now we have a second chance to rebuild WSU back into a "real university". Most people consider a university without football to be the equivalent of a porn star with a 5 1/2 inch... something just doesn't look or feel right.

Twenty schools in the final top 25 men's basketball rankings for last year have football: Gonzaga, us, and a couple Catholics were the abstainers. Do we really want to be in such limited company? Mark Few dies and I think Gonzaga's run is done. Another massive football alignment occurs creating a new Super Conference, and The New Big Pee is greatly diminished from the mirage of its current self. If we don't make it into this new top tier, we're finished. Does anybody think we're gonna go along for the ride without football? We'd have two immediate no votes with ChicKUn Sh!t Central and Manure U. If we were top 20 every year AND Marshall was still with us (very doubtful in 2025), the best we could hope for is salvation from the Pope and Company. That would be a friggin' nightmare.

If all of this occurs or some variant of it, the cost of restarting football will seem like a parking ticket in retrospect.


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06-26-2017 09:30 PM
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