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panama Offline
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Post: #21
Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 06:10 PM)shock Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:37 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Wait, what?


What?


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Wuuuuut


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06-25-2017 06:52 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #22
Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:20 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:05 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:55 PM)shock Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool


WSU is explicitly a non-football member of the AAC. It was a condition of joining the AAC. Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a very valuable SEC or Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.

[Image: giphy.gif]

Many might laugh… but a rebuilding and desperate B12 without Kansas would seriously consider WSU as a replacement even with an infant football program—which would likely be on Kansas’ level by then. Shock is partially right: “Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a... Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.” However, there is no way the SEC would add WSU when it could add either Kansas or Kansas St in my opinion….


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06-25-2017 06:55 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Football at WSU
I personally think the city of Wichita would like football as an option for its residents. The nearest major college football game is several hours from downtown Wichita. There's a small portion of a local property tax that goes to Wichita State based on an ancient agreement. I think it was last reported to be around $2M a year. A previous mayor suggested the city stipulate that it be used for football. Of course the idea never got off the ground but that was a decade ago. You could think of that income as comparable to having a $75M endowment that never depletes just for football.

I'm envisioning a multi-purpose, 60k seat stadium that would host football in downtown Wichita along with whatever other sports that could be played on the field. Soccer? It would be utilized for concerts and large events for 75% of the year and home to Shocker Football in the fall. The stadium could be built for $150M I believe and financed through bonds.

I'm sure WSU would have to be FCS for a few years unless there was a fast-track opportunity. If the AAC brought in BYU, I think you would need another team for balance no? Navy would be moved to the east division and we could jump into the west.

Again, the dynamic in Wichita is different than other mid-sized cities. Our university is really looked on as the focal point by the citizens. We had Double-A baseball downtown, but it couldn't draw flies as there were 8,000 at the Shocker Baseball game on campus. A WICHITA State football team could become a jewel in this town if properly funded, and competently coached. A Wichita State - Manure U (KSU) pre-season game in downtown Wichita would not be a small affair.

So don't think of this as a school starting football for a school's sake, think of it as a community team right in the middle of very fertile recruiting area with 650k people nearby - of which the majority are Shocker sympathizers.


T


...03-cool
06-25-2017 06:57 PM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:31 PM)fastbow Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:20 PM)Underdog Wrote:  Many might laugh… but a rebuilding and desperate B12 without Kansas would seriously consider WSU as a replacement even with an infant football program—which would likely be on Kansas’ level by then. Shock is partially right: “Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a... Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.” However, there is no way the SEC would add WSU when it could add either Kansas or Kansas St in my opinion….

Never happen. There's nowhere else for Kansas to go. Basketball alone won't earn them a Big 10 invite, and their football is Division 2 abysmal. They're not even marginally a fit for any other conference.

When the Big 12 dies, so will the University of Kansas's athletics.
very naive or willfully ignorant. See Rutgers.

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06-25-2017 06:59 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 06:55 PM)panama Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:20 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:05 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:55 PM)shock Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool


WSU is explicitly a non-football member of the AAC. It was a condition of joining the AAC. Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a very valuable SEC or Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.

[Image: giphy.gif]

Many might laugh… but a rebuilding and desperate B12 without Kansas would seriously consider WSU as a replacement even with an infant football program—which would likely be on Kansas’ level by then. Shock is partially right: “Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a... Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.” However, there is no way the SEC would add WSU when it could add either Kansas or Kansas St in my opinion….


You're saying you can't send a probe to Saturn but you can send one to Jupiter...


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This ^ coming from a fan of a school that was left "grounded" in the Sun Belt while CUSA was "shooting for the stars" with two startup football programs… L03-rotflL....
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 07:13 PM by Underdog.)
06-25-2017 07:01 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Football at WSU
WSU fans have to remember...need drives expansion.

AAC needed another hoops power since we only received 2 NCAA bids last season...WSU needed the AAC because they won 30 games and got stuck with a 10 seed.

there was mutual need.

the AAC does not need another football member and WSU does not need football to be successful. There is no mutual need there.

now I get the want for a football team, but football teams are very expensive. WSU's best bet would be to spend 15 million to renovate Cessna Stadium to FCS standards and stick this hypothetical FCS football team in a geographically sensible FCS football conference like say the MVFC.

best of both worlds IMHO.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 07:20 PM by UofMemphis.)
06-25-2017 07:10 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 06:57 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  I personally think the city of Wichita would like football as an option for its residents. The nearest major college football game is several hours from downtown Wichita. There's a small portion of a local property tax that goes to Wichita State based on an ancient agreement. I think it was last reported to be around $2M a year. A previous mayor suggested the city stipulate that it be used for football. Of course the idea never got off the ground but that was a decade ago. You could think of that income as comparable to having a $75M endowment that never depletes just for football.

I'm envisioning a multi-purpose, 60k seat stadium that would host football in downtown Wichita along with whatever other sports that could be played on the field. Soccer? It would be utilized for concerts and large events for 75% of the year and home to Shocker Football in the fall. The stadium could be built for $150M I believe and financed through bonds.

I'm sure WSU would have to be FCS for a few years unless there was a fast-track opportunity. If the AAC brought in BYU, I think you would need another team for balance no? Navy would be moved to the east division and we could jump into the west.

Again, the dynamic in Wichita is different than other mid-sized cities. Our university is really looked on as the focal point by the citizens. We had Double-A baseball downtown, but it couldn't draw flies as there were 8,000 at the Shocker Baseball game on campus. A WICHITA State football team could become a jewel in this town if properly funded, and competently coached. A Wichita State - Manure U (KSU) pre-season game in downtown Wichita would not be a small affair.

So don't think of this as a school starting football for a school's sake, think of it as a community team right in the middle of very fertile recruiting area with 650k people nearby - of which the majority are Shocker sympathizers.


T


...03-cool

If we brought BYU in we would bring adding either Armt, Air Force, or Boise State to go along.
06-25-2017 07:21 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 07:10 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  WSU fans have to remember...need drives expansion.

AAC needed another hoops power since we only received 2 NCAA bids last season...WSU needed the AAC because they won 30 games and got stuck with a 10 seed.

there was mutual need.

the AAC does not need another football member and WSU does not need football to be successful. There is no mutual need there.

now I get the want for a football team, but football teams are very expensive. WSU's best bet would be to spend 15 million to renovate Cessna Stadium to FCS standards and stick this hypothetical FCS football team in a geographically sensible FCS football conference like say the MVFC.

best of both worlds IMHO.

The need would only arise if the AAC added another football program which I think they will in the future. A need would also arise if the AAC lost a football program... I'd rather not think about that scenario.

Just comparing the market between Tulsa and Wichita and as I said, there isn't another major football team within 2 hrs. of driving from downtown Wichita.

KSU = 130.4 mi (2 hrs 2 mins)
K|UCK = 166.6 mi (2 hrs 23 mins)
OU = 177.1 mi (2 hrs 41 mins)
OSU = 127.9 mi (1 hr 57 mins)
Tulsa = 179.2 mi (2 hrs 38 mins)

From Tulsa's perspective:

OU = 123.2 mi (1 hr 55 mins)
OSU = 69.6 mi (1 hr 7 mins) -not good
UA = 111.4 mi (1 hr 55 mins)


An interesting side note about Wichita is that there are over a million people living within 100 miles of downtown. Rural areas in Kansas lean heavily purple though.


T


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06-25-2017 07:43 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #29
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 07:43 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:10 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  WSU fans have to remember...need drives expansion.

AAC needed another hoops power since we only received 2 NCAA bids last season...WSU needed the AAC because they won 30 games and got stuck with a 10 seed.

there was mutual need.

the AAC does not need another football member and WSU does not need football to be successful. There is no mutual need there.

now I get the want for a football team, but football teams are very expensive. WSU's best bet would be to spend 15 million to renovate Cessna Stadium to FCS standards and stick this hypothetical FCS football team in a geographically sensible FCS football conference like say the MVFC.

best of both worlds IMHO.

The need would only arise if the AAC added another football program which I think they will in the future. A need would also arise if the AAC lost a football program... I'd rather not think about that scenario.

Just comparing the market between Tulsa and Wichita and as I said, there isn't another major football team within 2 hrs. of driving from downtown Wichita.

KSU = 130.4 mi (2 hrs 2 mins)
K|UCK = 166.6 mi (2 hrs 23 mins)
OU = 177.1 mi (2 hrs 41 mins)
OSU = 127.9 mi (1 hr 57 mins)
Tulsa = 179.2 mi (2 hrs 38 mins)

From Tulsa's perspective:

OU = 123.2 mi (1 hr 55 mins)
OSU = 69.6 mi (1 hr 7 mins) -not good
UA = 111.4 mi (1 hr 55 mins)


An interesting side note about Wichita is that there are over a million people living within 100 miles of downtown. Rural areas in Kansas lean heavily purple though.


T


...03-cool

but WSU is coupled with Navy football in the AAC. moreover, we don't have the time to bring WSU football along.

if we needed a football team it would make more sense to bring in an all-sports member.

it's FCS or bust for WSU IMHO.
06-25-2017 07:54 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #30
Football at WSU
Why wait? I say go for it, renovate Cessna football field to FBS standards then play a year or two in FCS and then start playing in the AAC
Iam all for it
06-25-2017 08:04 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #31
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 08:04 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Why wait? I say go for it, renovate Cessna football field to FBS standards then play a year or two in FCS and then start playing in the AAC
Iam all for it

they were brought in as a non football member. If I remember the deal right a majority of the presidents have to approve their joining in football...that ain't gonna happen currently as there is no need.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 08:08 PM by UofMemphis.)
06-25-2017 08:07 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Football at WSU
Dude, come on man... if they want to play football then let them play football in AAC, Iam not into all this " everything has to be just right crap " that is college football, their in the conference now anyway so, Spare me all the legal Mumbo jumbo stuff and just play some damn football
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 08:16 PM by JHS55.)
06-25-2017 08:15 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #33
Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 07:54 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:43 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:10 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  WSU fans have to remember...need drives expansion.

AAC needed another hoops power since we only received 2 NCAA bids last season...WSU needed the AAC because they won 30 games and got stuck with a 10 seed.

there was mutual need.

the AAC does not need another football member and WSU does not need football to be successful. There is no mutual need there.

now I get the want for a football team, but football teams are very expensive. WSU's best bet would be to spend 15 million to renovate Cessna Stadium to FCS standards and stick this hypothetical FCS football team in a geographically sensible FCS football conference like say the MVFC.

best of both worlds IMHO.

The need would only arise if the AAC added another football program which I think they will in the future. A need would also arise if the AAC lost a football program... I'd rather not think about that scenario.

Just comparing the market between Tulsa and Wichita and as I said, there isn't another major football team within 2 hrs. of driving from downtown Wichita.

KSU = 130.4 mi (2 hrs 2 mins)
K|UCK = 166.6 mi (2 hrs 23 mins)
OU = 177.1 mi (2 hrs 41 mins)
OSU = 127.9 mi (1 hr 57 mins)
Tulsa = 179.2 mi (2 hrs 38 mins)

From Tulsa's perspective:

OU = 123.2 mi (1 hr 55 mins)
OSU = 69.6 mi (1 hr 7 mins) -not good
UA = 111.4 mi (1 hr 55 mins)


An interesting side note about Wichita is that there are over a million people living within 100 miles of downtown. Rural areas in Kansas lean heavily purple though.


T


...03-cool

but WSU is coupled with Navy football in the AAC. moreover, we don't have the time to bring WSU football along.

if we needed a football team it would make more sense to bring in an all-sports member.

it's FCS or bust for WSU IMHO.


I would think if football was that big of a deal to Wichita , they would have bought it along independent of getting an AAC invite.


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06-25-2017 08:16 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:37 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Wait, what?
I think i got hooked
06-25-2017 08:19 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #35
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 08:15 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Dude, come on man... if they want to play football then let them play football in AAC, Iam not into all this " everything has to be just right crap " that is college football, their in the conference now anyway so, Spare me all the legal Mumbo jumbo stuff and just play some damn football

what you call legal mumbo jumbo are the rules. I'm not stopping WSU, all they need is a football program (which they don't have) and 7 of the 12 football playing university Presidents to OK it.

but it took 4 years to get them to come around to adding WSU as a non football member...they move very slowly.
06-25-2017 08:21 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #36
Football at WSU
Ok, i hear ya, but imo I don't care if thier a new football team, heck just fast track em in
06-25-2017 08:25 PM
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fastbow Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 06:59 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  very naive or willfully ignorant. See Rutgers.

I just graduated from KU. Rutgers has a bunch of advantages KU doesn't.

1. Geography. New Jersey has a hell of a lot more pull than Kansas City. You can argue it's an in for the New York City or Philadelphia media market. KU has most of Kansas City, Topeka, and some of Wichita.
2. Football. Rutgers football can pretend to respectability. KU football is a bad joke. They're outdrawn in their own stadium by visiting fans. In a state that can really only support one DI team, they aren't the DI team the state supports. That's Kansas State.
3. Economics. There's a hell of a lot more money available for Rutgers than KU.
4. Environment. For some strange, unfathomable reason, some people like to visit New Jersey. It's an extremely rare bird that comes here for the hell of it.

Don't get me wrong, KU is a great school. But as far as athletics goes? All it has is a basketball team. And in a world where football rules all, that brand will mean absolutely nothing when the Big 12 falls apart.

Us? We're an edge case. We got lucky that you needed a football-only member, and we had high-level hoops and olympic sports in addition to not having one of the worst DI football programs in the nation. KU also got lucky when it hitched its wagon to OU in the Big Six days. For my money, they won't get that lucky again, and will be on the outside looking in when the Big 12 collapses.
06-25-2017 09:26 PM
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panama Offline
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Football at WSU
Yes yes the big 12 is falling apart in the year 2156...lol


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06-25-2017 09:29 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 07:54 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:43 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 07:10 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  WSU fans have to remember...need drives expansion.

AAC needed another hoops power since we only received 2 NCAA bids last season...WSU needed the AAC because they won 30 games and got stuck with a 10 seed.

there was mutual need.

the AAC does not need another football member and WSU does not need football to be successful. There is no mutual need there.

now I get the want for a football team, but football teams are very expensive. WSU's best bet would be to spend 15 million to renovate Cessna Stadium to FCS standards and stick this hypothetical FCS football team in a geographically sensible FCS football conference like say the MVFC.

best of both worlds IMHO.

The need would only arise if the AAC added another football program which I think they will in the future. A need would also arise if the AAC lost a football program... I'd rather not think about that scenario.

Just comparing the market between Tulsa and Wichita and as I said, there isn't another major football team within 2 hrs. of driving from downtown Wichita.

KSU = 130.4 mi (2 hrs 2 mins)
K|UCK = 166.6 mi (2 hrs 23 mins)
OU = 177.1 mi (2 hrs 41 mins)
OSU = 127.9 mi (1 hr 57 mins)
Tulsa = 179.2 mi (2 hrs 38 mins)

From Tulsa's perspective:

OU = 123.2 mi (1 hr 55 mins)
OSU = 69.6 mi (1 hr 7 mins) -not good
UA = 111.4 mi (1 hr 55 mins)


An interesting side note about Wichita is that there are over a million people living within 100 miles of downtown. Rural areas in Kansas lean heavily purple though.


T


...03-cool

but WSU is coupled with Navy football in the AAC. moreover, we don't have the time to bring WSU football along.

if we needed a football team it would make more sense to bring in an all-sports member.

it's FCS or bust for WSU IMHO.

For sure. The AAC is of the quality that if they need to expand they have a long list of suitors. It would be on WSU to put themselves in position for a seamless entry. It would also require a favor from the AAC... preferential treatment if you will, over non-members applying to join. I would think we could garner some respect if we smack this conference around in bball for the next 5 years.

But the timeline would not involve the immediate future and conference expansions/contractions happen before they happen; i.e., overnight. It's gonna take a little luck, but less luck than it took for us to join a power conference without football.

Maybe we can negotiate for some football votes by agreeing to keep the score under 20 when we visit opponent's gyms in bball. 05-stirthepot

P.S. The boosters have already stated we will never play anything less than D1 football if we brought it back. Wichita State isn't NIAABCDEFG material.


T


...03-cool
06-25-2017 09:32 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

(06-25-2017 06:08 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:46 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:43 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  People talk about it "blowing up" in 2025. WTF does that even mean? How are people so sure that all of FBS is just going to go nuts when 2025 hits?

Big12 TV deal ends in 2025...Texas and Oklahoma become 'unrestricted free agents' so to speak.

And College Football Playiff deal is through 2025 season

(06-25-2017 08:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  then you have a 7 member Big 12 wanting to get back to 12 (so their name finally makes sense again, lol)

BYU, Cincy, UConn, Memphis, CSU, Boise St, Houston, etc...all the 'usual suspects' will be back playing musical chairs for the open spots.

'may the odds be ever in your favor!' cause it'll be a free-for-all

Gleaning a few eyebrow-raising quotes from the BYU thread, it appears our timetable is set for us. We have 7.5 years to restart football and be ready to fill a possible spot in either a new conference or this one. I think if we don't have a football program running by then we never will and we may pay a serious price at the time. That is unless we're still a top basketball program. Staying in the top 20 every year from here on out seems a lot more difficult than just developing and maintaining a respectable D1 football program. Everything goes in cycles. Few can stay on top forever without suffering down cycles (just ask a few notable schools in this conference). If we find ourselves alone in the AAC with all the basketball powers having left and wannabees (with football) as their replacement, we're gonna be in a world of hurt. Maybe even worse than where we were in the MVC last year.

Fastbow tries to make the argument that K|UCK-City would be left out from another major power conference shuffle, I don't know if I buy that. But imagine if it came to pass, how much worse would our fortunes be with no program at all? We're sailing without a compass right now.


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