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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Football at WSU
I stand corrected: TWENTY-TWO schools in the final top 25 men's basketball rankings for last year have football. Butler and Villanova both play FCS football. Only Gonzaga, us, and Xavier have banned the pigskin. Rarefied air we continue to operate in.


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06-26-2017 09:49 PM
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Aargh Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Football at WSU
Football at WSU is at best an extreme long shot. It doesn't matter how much some fans want it, unless those fans have huge checking accounts and want to write huge checks. $40 million to start it up using a stadium that was bare bones when it was built almost 50 years ago.

If that obstacle could be overcome, the next obstacle is putting together a coaching staff that could succeed with a startup program. That's quite a challenge.

Then recruiting becomes an issue. I doubt a startup program at WSU could successfully compete for recruits against Kansas, and getting a level of recruits below what Kansas gets wouldn't put butts in seats.

About the pending B12 implosion, which some have mentioned,Texas might try to hold on, because they basically own the B12. OU and OSU would sprint to join the SEC. Take OU and OSU out of the B12 and leave Texas there and the B12 isn't much better than the AAC. Plus, you'd still have Texas wanting to control everything. Not an attractive destination.

If Texas left, it would be a plus for the rest of the league, but without Texas, OU, and OSU,, that would end the B12's presence as a power conference.
06-26-2017 10:06 PM
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ECUGrad07 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:05 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:55 PM)shock Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool


WSU is explicitly a non-football member of the AAC. It was a condition of joining the AAC. Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a very valuable SEC or Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.

[Image: giphy.gif]

[Image: 603db088bfc439746087637584a11833.gif]
06-27-2017 10:46 AM
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Wudizzle Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Football at WSU
WSU would be much better served to bet on a new soccer program than to try to climb a crumbling Mt. Football while starting in the Grand Canyon.
06-27-2017 10:49 AM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 10:49 AM)Wudizzle Wrote:  WSU would be much better served to bet on a new soccer program than to try to climb a crumbling Mt. Football while starting in the Grand Canyon.

I despise soccer with a passion but I 100% agree with this.
06-27-2017 10:58 AM
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shock Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Football at WSU
Just as God made whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world, the NCAA made football expensive to keep WSU from winning everything of worth every year.
06-27-2017 01:53 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Football at WSU
(06-26-2017 10:06 PM)Aargh Wrote:  Football at WSU is at best an extreme long shot. It doesn't matter how much some fans want it, unless those fans have huge checking accounts and want to write huge checks. $40 million to start it up using a stadium that was bare bones when it was built almost 50 years ago.

If that obstacle could be overcome, the next obstacle is putting together a coaching staff that could succeed with a startup program. That's quite a challenge.

Then recruiting becomes an issue. I doubt a startup program at WSU could successfully compete for recruits against Kansas, and getting a level of recruits below what Kansas gets wouldn't put butts in seats.

About the pending B12 implosion, which some have mentioned, Texas might try to hold on, because they basically own the B12. OU and OSU would sprint to join the SEC. Take OU and OSU out of the B12 and leave Texas there and the B12 isn't much better than the AAC. Plus, you'd still have Texas wanting to control everything. Not an attractive destination.

If Texas left, it would be a plus for the rest of the league, but without Texas, OU, and OSU,, that would end the B12's presence as a power conference.


OU and OSU tried to leave the B12 for the PAC 12, but were turned down because, “Scott and Texas reportedly could not come to an agreement on how to pursue the Longhorn Network.”

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...c-12-snub/


Texas was going to leave the B12 if OU had left:

“So the divining of the entrails, scattered this past week by the Sooners and Longhorns, seems to suggest that, come late Monday afternoon, the Big 12 will officially begin its slide into history and college athletics will be thrust into realignment turmoil. It appears that despite last weekend's pleas to the Sooners by Texas to stay, Oklahoma will announce it is leaving the Big 12 conference… leaving the Longhorns with no other recourse but to act out of self-survival and announce that they, too, will be departing the conference.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/853558


In fact, when the aforementioned nearly happened regarding OU, OSU, UT (and TT), the almost decimated and desperate B12 leftovers strongly considered "absorbing" Big East schools—which was also a power conference.

“The sources said that if Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State were to leave the Big 12 and the five remaining schools do not have an opportunity to join the ACC, SEC or Big Ten, the Big 12 would move to absorb remaining Big East schools -- not the other way around….

One Big 12 source said the reason it would absorb the Big East is the conference's ability to secure a television deal, currently with Fox, and three more years with ESPN/ABC -- although a new configuration could open it up to a new arrangement.”


http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...ources-say


I don’t have time to find the video footage of a subsequent press conference that former Texas AD Deloss Dodds gave when the PAC 12 turned down OU and OSU, but he said that the B12 was dead without OU. My point is: Texas will not try to “hold on” to the B12 if OU leaves. Even more important, the B12 leftovers will raid this conference just like they considered doing back in 2011 because it will be considered “much better than the AAC.”
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 05:04 PM by Underdog.)
06-27-2017 04:36 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Football at WSU
So if we don't have football and the Broken12 raids the AAC, how many will they take, who will they take, and most importantly... what's WSU's chances of being included as a basketball only if we are still a perennial top 25 program?


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06-27-2017 05:11 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 05:11 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  So if we don't have football and the Broken12 raids the AAC, how many will they take, who will they take, and most importantly... what's WSU's chances of being included as a basketball only if we are still a perennial top 25 program?


T


...03-cool

If you would please read post #53 in this thread, I provided general answers to your questions. However, if you still want specific answers, I will do my best to provide them for you on tomorrow. Until then, please see if post #53 is satisfactory before we continue….
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 05:46 PM by Underdog.)
06-27-2017 05:41 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 05:41 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 05:11 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  So if we don't have football and the Broken12 raids the AAC, how many will they take, who will they take, and most importantly... what's WSU's chances of being included as a basketball only if we are still a perennial top 25 program?


T


...03-cool

If you would please read post #53 in this thread, I provided general answers to your questions. However, if you still want specific answers, I will do my best to provide them for you on tomorrow. Until then, please see if post #53 is satisfactory before we continue….

Quote:Consequently, Wichita St fans should be concerned about what happens to the B12. Also, please consider the conference that had the most potential B12 expansion candidates—the one that your school just joined!

Furthermore, the key to the survival of this conference is what happens to WV (West Virginia). If WV is one of the B12 leftovers, this conference will get decimated. The B12 has discussed in the past about building a bridge to WV. Once its GOR expires and certain schools leave (I anticipate at least 5), the remaining schools will use “American” parts to build a bridge to WV. They will also likely expand past 12 schools to imitate the other “Autonomous” conferences. As a result, there might not be enough schools left for the American to once again raid CUSA. Thus, it could be too weakened by the B12 raid to survive. WS would be in serious trouble for not having a football program should this occur.

Therefore, if WS at least plays FCS, it increases the probability of getting an invite because the B12 leftovers would likely receive a 2 year notice that the other schools are leaving; also, the American would need replacements.

I think I captured the pertinent points. Thanks!

I can't imagine WV staying in a depleted Big12. They are already a regional outlier. They join one of either the B1G, SEC, or ACC IMO. But I can understand the dynamic that would occur in the AAC if they did remain. They've got Cincy and UConn in their backyard.

So from both standpoints, what does the Big12 look like after all the defections are complete in your opinion? WV in and WV out.

Now what does the AAC look like if it survives and poaches from lower leagues.

And finally, if you'd be so kind... provide a couple mock scenarios based on your assumptions/opinion showing the type of conference Wichita State would be in after 2025.

Bear with me here, I'm trying to use your knowledge of the AAC/B12/2025 dynamic (of which I know very little) to support my logic (of which I have a lot) to end, once and for all, the silly rebuttal some Shocker fans have for not at least attempting to restart a sport, that is the #1 defining characteristic of a major athletic university at a time when major universities are regrouping for branding purposes.


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06-27-2017 06:09 PM
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Ewglenn Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:31 PM)fastbow Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:20 PM)Underdog Wrote:  Many might laugh… but a rebuilding and desperate B12 without Kansas would seriously consider WSU as a replacement even with an infant football program—which would likely be on Kansas’ level by then. Shock is partially right: “Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a... Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.” However, there is no way the SEC would add WSU when it could add either Kansas or Kansas St in my opinion….

Never happen. There's nowhere else for Kansas to go. Basketball alone won't earn them a Big 10 invite, and their football is Division 2 abysmal. They're not even marginally a fit for any other conference.

When the Big 12 dies, so will the University of Kansas's athletics.

I think the SEC would go OU and OK St before KU and KSU.
06-27-2017 06:51 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 01:53 PM)shock Wrote:  Just as God made whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world, the NCAA made football expensive to keep WSU from winning anything of worth every year.

Fify
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 08:04 PM by shere khan.)
06-27-2017 08:03 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 08:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 01:53 PM)shock Wrote:  Just as God made whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world, the NCAA made football expensive to keep WSU from winning anything of worth every year.

Fify

You're right. We beat your worthless asses in 2014.
06-27-2017 08:07 PM
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rtaylor Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 08:07 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 01:53 PM)shock Wrote:  Just as God made whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world, the NCAA made football expensive to keep WSU from winning anything of worth every year.

Fify

You're right. We beat your worthless asses in 2014.

Hence the quote not winning anything worth a damn.
06-27-2017 09:08 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 06:51 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:31 PM)fastbow Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:20 PM)Underdog Wrote:  Many might laugh… but a rebuilding and desperate B12 without Kansas would seriously consider WSU as a replacement even with an infant football program—which would likely be on Kansas’ level by then. Shock is partially right: “Presidents do not want WSU to use the AAC as a springboard for a football program because it would make WSU a... Big 12 candidate in a matter of a few years.” However, there is no way the SEC would add WSU when it could add either Kansas or Kansas St in my opinion….

Never happen. There's nowhere else for Kansas to go. Basketball alone won't earn them a Big 10 invite, and their football is Division 2 abysmal. They're not even marginally a fit for any other conference.

When the Big 12 dies, so will the University of Kansas's athletics.

I think the SEC would go OU and OK St before KU and KSU.

How about OU and OKSU to the SEC (makes 16), K|UCKERS to ACC (makes 16), WV and Texas to B1G (makes 16) leaving the Broken 12 with Silo-Tech, TCU, ISU, BU, and TT.

Broken12 then grabs Cincy, UConn, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, Temple, UCF, USF, Tulane, WSU (basketball only), and Navy (football only). That makes 16 football, 16 basketball, and ECU as the gods of CUSA (or AAC if CUSA is absorbed).

I LIKEY! I'm sure I'm missing someone...


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06-27-2017 09:18 PM
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Shockdaminkey Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Football at WSU
(06-25-2017 05:26 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool

My advice... Do not do it.

College Football, outside the "Power" Conferences, is an endangered species. For most of us, it will not be tenable over the next decade...either we will move down or have to disband it.

If Wichita State wastes money trying to restart football, administrators should be investigated for fiscal malfeasance.

Besides which, the State of Kansas, thanks to your brilliant Governor, is in such financial straits that there is no more money for such extravagance.

This. End of story. Football would destroy the WSU basketball program, and we'd end up drunk in the CUSA alley.
06-27-2017 09:23 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 09:08 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:07 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 08:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(06-27-2017 01:53 PM)shock Wrote:  Just as God made whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world, the NCAA made football expensive to keep WSU from winning anything of worth every year.

Fify

You're right. We beat your worthless asses in 2014.

Hence the quote not winning anything worth a damn.

Hence my quote calling them 'worthless'
06-27-2017 10:16 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Football at WSU
(06-27-2017 09:23 PM)Shockdaminkey Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 05:26 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(06-25-2017 04:48 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Lots of knowledgeable football fans on this board who are keenly aware of their respective university's football budget. If you were charged with the task of restarting football at Wichita State and eventually turning it into a middle-of-the-pack AAC performer, how much money would you need? How big of a stadium? What's a realistic timeline? Can the process be fast-tracked?


T


...03-cool

My advice... Do not do it.

College Football, outside the "Power" Conferences, is an endangered species. For most of us, it will not be tenable over the next decade...either we will move down or have to disband it.

If Wichita State wastes money trying to restart football, administrators should be investigated for fiscal malfeasance.

Besides which, the State of Kansas, thanks to your brilliant Governor, is in such financial straits that there is no more money for such extravagance.

This. End of story. Football would destroy the WSU basketball program, and we'd end up drunk in the CUSA alley.

AAC fans, this is the idiotic mantra that permeates Shocker Nation like a recurring case of the crabs. No vision, no logic, no balls. It's the same people I had to fight when trying to get the downtown arena passed; CAVE'rs (citizens against virtually everything). Most of the CAVE'rs are ancient and turning to dust as we speak. The rest are busy building furniture in an Amish village (taking a break only to post on Shocker message boards).

The scenario I laid out in this post is probably the only outcome where Wichita State doesn't get slapped squarely in the nuts on 2025. Ninety-nine other scenarios give us an up close and personal definitional demonstration of the catchphrase two steps forward, three steps back.

Our president is behind football, our AD is behind football; It's up to them and the accountants (and the boosters) to determine if we can pull it off. The rest of the fans (that's YOU on the forums, at the water cooler, at the coffee shop) need to get in line and show support for the idea. If the leadership thinks the fans don't want it (of course they do), they're not gonna go the extra mile and achieve the unexpected.

Game Theory dictates that if there's even a 50% probability we can make it work, we take the risk as our intermediate future in a top tier conference is dismal at best unless we start reeling off national championships like beer pong trophies. And even that might not save us.

This asinine fake news narrative of "but..but..but.. football will KILLLLLLLLLL basketball is complete bull****. We've more than doubled our basketball budget over the last handful of years. Did baseball die???? Well... *ahem* actually it did, but it wasn't on account of a lack of funds - just brains. Nobody in the athletic department is so stupid that they would start up football using funds from our other major sports. The monies will have to be secured up front. The rest is up to fate. But I'm sick and tired of all the backwards CAVE'rs who scream from their Interweb bully pulpits on how stooopid the idea of football in Wichita is. I bet paying a basketball coach over 3 million a year would have been stupid to these same people 5 years ago. A word of advice: just pipe down, fall in line, and let the people with vision like The Bardo get things done... like he's been getting things done. He knows the uphill battle we face as a university without football. He's keenly aware which is why he supports it.

FML I'm OUT! *drops mic*


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06-27-2017 10:17 PM
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Stookey57 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Football at WSU
I knew this would happen after one football season the Shockers will be wanting to add football mark my words

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06-28-2017 06:10 AM
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Stookey57 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Football at WSU
I'm sure they will have a great basketball season and that will add more fuel to the fire for adding football

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06-28-2017 06:11 AM
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