Letting it collapse is a huge gamble. It could work. It would be a collasal backfire if Dems win 2018. Who knows what would happen then?

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Tweaking it around the edges is NFG. We need a conceptual paradigm shift, not adjustments to the mistake that is Obamacare.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/23/the-...obamacare/

"GOP Senate Health Care Bill isn't Great but its Better than Obamacare"

(06-25-2017 07:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 06:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

I don't like the strategy of passing something so we can take the next step later.

Look what passing ObamaCare has done. It has given us a rotting mess that is nearly impossible to undo.

Once something is passed it is incredibly difficult to take the next step.

They don't have 60 votes. Unless you convince them to get rid of the filibuster, they can't do much more than this.

Obamacare was passed under Reconciliation where you only need 51 Votes. You can repeal it under the same mechanism.

(06-25-2017 08:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tweaking it around the edges is NFG. We need a conceptual paradigm shift, not adjustments to the mistake that is Obamacare.

if'n I could only vote for ya.....

a majority within too many minority(s) understands what needs to happen.....

the problem now is compounded by the bureaucracy that won't/can't let go ....and the msm/dippos are relentless hacks....it's become an out of control infinitely headed monster...

if not Trump's version of 'squeezing', then what.....status quo politics continues to lose.....and the Rand Pauls cannot win (yet)

I wish I had a better answer.....DJT was my last bastion of hope relative to my daughter's generation and status quo politics....if his gambles don't pay off, I see nothing but lose moving forward....

I'm all in on this one and can only hope the legislators can dig their heads out of their arse, pass this, then improve upon while they still have the ability.....

maybe someone will plant a Bismark seed in their head down the road

(06-25-2017 08:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/23/the-...obamacare/

"GOP Senate Health Care Bill isn't Great but its Better than Obamacare"

well there's a ringing endorsement.


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(06-25-2017 08:58 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 08:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tweaking it around the edges is NFG. We need a conceptual paradigm shift, not adjustments to the mistake that is Obamacare.

if'n I could only vote for ya.....

a majority within too many minority(s) understands what needs to happen.....

the problem now is compounded by the bureaucracy that won't/can't let go ....and the msm/dippos are relentless hacks....it's become an out of control infinitely headed monster...

if not Trump's version of 'squeezing', then what.....status quo politics continues to lose.....and the Rand Pauls cannot win (yet)

I wish I had a better answer.....DJT was my last bastion of hope relative to my daughter's generation and status quo politics....if his gambles don't pay off, I see nothing but lose moving forward....

I'm all in on this one and can only hope the legislators can dig their heads out of their arse, pass this, then improve upon while they still have the ability.....

maybe someone will plant a Bismark seed in their head down the road

The text of the ACA gives the Secretary of HHS the authority to pass any appropriate regulations to enact and interpret the legislation,

Lets see what Price does on his end if Congress cant repeal it in toto.

(06-25-2017 08:48 PM)WoodlandsOwl Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 07:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 06:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

I don't like the strategy of passing something so we can take the next step later.

Look what passing ObamaCare has done. It has given us a rotting mess that is nearly impossible to undo.

Once something is passed it is incredibly difficult to take the next step.

They don't have 60 votes. Unless you convince them to get rid of the filibuster, they can't do much more than this.

Obamacare was passed under Reconciliation where you only need 51 Votes. You can repeal it under the same mechanism.

I've yet to see an explanation of how that can be done. I've only seen explanations where parts of it are impossible to repeal this way. Other parts can only be removed by executive order and by Price, but they need the legislation first.

(06-25-2017 09:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 08:48 PM)WoodlandsOwl Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 07:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 06:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

I don't like the strategy of passing something so we can take the next step later.

Look what passing ObamaCare has done. It has given us a rotting mess that is nearly impossible to undo.

Once something is passed it is incredibly difficult to take the next step.

They don't have 60 votes. Unless you convince them to get rid of the filibuster, they can't do much more than this.

Obamacare was passed under Reconciliation where you only need 51 Votes. You can repeal it under the same mechanism.

I've yet to see an explanation of how that can be done. I've only seen explanations where parts of it are impossible to repeal this way. Other parts can only be removed by executive order and by Price, but they need the legislation first.

Senate did it in 2015

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc...re/418644/

(06-25-2017 07:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 07:40 PM)Paul M Wrote:  They aren't doing ANYTHING. Like I said, not even a speed bump when the Dems get control back.

Get to 60. Unless Trumpers aren't as confident as they claim to be. Trumps doing amazing things. Making the country great again. What's the problem waiting 2 years and doing it right then?

#1. Waiting means you lose the House so you can't do anything.
#2. Every year it continues, it gets more entrenched and its tentacles get harder to remove.

So, 1) No confidence Trump is going to retain, add seats. Understandable on this. I have no confidence myself.
2) Again, they aren't even loosening the grip of any tentacles. They are ensuring it gets MORE entrenched. Nothing they've proposed is meaningful in the slightest.

(06-25-2017 08:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tweaking it around the edges is NFG. We need a conceptual paradigm shift, not adjustments to the mistake that is Obamacare.

This.

(06-25-2017 09:07 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 08:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/23/the-...obamacare/

"GOP Senate Health Care Bill isn't Great but its Better than Obamacare"

well there's a ringing endorsement.


Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Yep. "Better than Obamacare". It still eventually gets us to the same place Ocare was already leading us to.

Problem with Republicans: they get us to the same place the left wants to go, just at a slower pace.

(06-25-2017 09:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 08:48 PM)WoodlandsOwl Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 07:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 06:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

I don't like the strategy of passing something so we can take the next step later.

Look what passing ObamaCare has done. It has given us a rotting mess that is nearly impossible to undo.

Once something is passed it is incredibly difficult to take the next step.

They don't have 60 votes. Unless you convince them to get rid of the filibuster, they can't do much more than this.

Obamacare was passed under Reconciliation where you only need 51 Votes. You can repeal it under the same mechanism.

I've yet to see an explanation of how that can be done. I've only seen explanations where parts of it are impossible to repeal this way. Other parts can only be removed by executive order and by Price, but they need the legislation first.

that's why I wanted the first version passed.....jam it through on equal footing, then whittle away at the root....

as a design engineer, I never had a 100% first pass....

calling it an impasse is unacceptable.....

It's literally impossible for the Republicans to win this. Either:

- they can't get this passed, and ACA lives, or
- some kind of legislation is passed, and regardless of the details of that legislation, it will result in many people (millions) losing coverage outright or benefits, and this will cause (stupid?) people to go "oh s___! I didn't want that to happen!" and then GOP will take a huge hit at the polls, either in 2018, 2020, or both.


Note that the second line is true regardless if it's the AHCA bill being voted upon next week in the senate, or this fantasy "straight up repeal" that isn't on the table. Both would result in millions losing coverage and/or benefits they gained under ACA, and would result in a political catastrophe.

The solution is obvious--Bismarck, funded by a consumption tax (which also balances the budget after reduction of individual and corporate income tax rates to world-competitive levels).

Universal care, controls cost, provides a viable free market for those who want something better.

Whether it is so obvious that republicans can figure it out is another matter.

Frustrating

http://www.realclearhealth.com/articles/...10647.html

10 stray thoughts on the Senate plan

(06-26-2017 07:57 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Frustrating

we all agree with that....

(06-25-2017 09:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A 2 % national sales tax. Your health care is covered. Done. End of argument.

I think a lot of us have said we're in favor of a VAT or Nat'l Sales Tax, aka, a consumption tax, Mach...

But are you going to guarantee that every dime from that is doled out appropriately once it's collected?

(06-25-2017 07:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 07:33 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Like it or not single payer is coming. I don't like it but the course we're on has almost guaranteed it since FDR.

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And thus begins the death of our once great country as we spiral into a socialist hell-hole.

I fear both of these things are true.

It was the insidious intent of zerOcare all along.