(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

(06-25-2017 09:55 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A 2 % national sales tax. Your health care is covered. Done. End of argument.

How does that control cost? 2% this year, 3% next year, 20% 10 years down the road... it never ends. Reduce the costs and then we can have a debate on how it is paid for. That's where Obamacare failed. Only increased costs and shifted sand from one side of the room to the other. Bad.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

And when that sales tax gets to a breaking point then the cost cutting and service cutting in the form of queues and denial of care begins.

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

diminishing returns for whom?

Because my Grandfather ended upcoming to the US where doctors would treat him. He lived long enough to see to grand children married and several great grandchildren born.

He lived long enough to see old family squbbles set aside, share many meals wit his kids, grandkids, and great grandchildren.

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

I agree...No one is gonna cheat the reaper. He's coming for everyone.
Once you are born your timer is ticking.
Some get more time. Some less.
Some will have good health to the end. Some won't.
Life's a crap shoot and ultimately isn't fair. It just isn't.
Deal with the cards you are dealt as best you can.

Sooner people come to grips with that the happier all will be.

(06-25-2017 10:15 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

diminishing returns for whom?

Because my Grandfather ended upcoming to the US where doctors would treat him. He lived long enough to see to grand children married and several great grandchildren born.

He lived long enough to see old family squbbles set aside, share many meals wit his kids, grandkids, and great grandchildren.

not life...cost of healthcare

good for him....he is simply another that 'earned' relative cost that will continually degrade "care" in the future....

pragmatic = social evil....or do you not understand that concept???

to be specific....as the populous grow, so does the cost....care moving forward will continually trend downward....that's a gimme

(06-25-2017 10:15 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

diminishing returns for whom?

Because my Grandfather ended upcoming to the US where doctors would treat him. He lived long enough to see to grand children married and several great grandchildren born.

He lived long enough to see old family squbbles set aside, share many meals wit his kids, grandkids, and great grandchildren.

Diminishing returns to society as a whole.

Your grandfather may have been contributing to your life and the lives of your family with his presence but not to society. In a nationalized healthcare system his value is considered diminished because he no longer contributes to society's benefit. He would be seem only as drain on resources that could be used for someone younger who is contributing.

Your grandfather chose to spend his own resources and not have his healthcare decisions left to the CNHS. His situation is a perfect example of why we never want to have nationalized healthcare in the US or if it does come must have the option to purchase private additional coverage or personal assets to go elsewhere if we are denied care.

(06-25-2017 10:40 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:15 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

diminishing returns for whom?

Because my Grandfather ended upcoming to the US where doctors would treat him. He lived long enough to see to grand children married and several great grandchildren born.

He lived long enough to see old family squbbles set aside, share many meals wit his kids, grandkids, and great grandchildren.

Diminishing returns to society as a whole.

Your grandfather may have been contributing to your life and the lives of your family with his presence but not to society. In a nationalized healthcare system his value is considered diminished because he no longer contributes to society's benefit. He would be seem only as drain on resources that could be used for someone younger who is contributing.

Your grandfather chose to spend his own resources and not have his healthcare decisions left to the CNHS. His situation is a perfect example of why we never want to have nationalized healthcare in the US or if it does come must have the option to purchase private additional coverage or personal assets to go elsewhere if we are denied care.

Amen!

(06-25-2017 09:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A 2 % national sales tax. Your health care is covered. Done. End of argument.

Un hunh. I'll ask the same question here I asked yesterday- when has the cost of ANYTHING gone down once the government gets involved?

You going to count on the federal DMV to deliver your healthcare?

That is somewhere between or within a Venn diagram of lunacy and sheer insanity. No thanks.

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

First three: of course are your right, and more power to you.
Last one: never heard of it. So upon investigating, is clearly a fraudulent shell for people who don't want to purchase health insurance to bypass the penalty.

I'd like to know your thoughts on a proposal to remove the exemption for such organizations, and instead make it so that healthy, single young men such as yourself are automatically enrolled in the most expensive individual market plan available, if they refuse to participate in the system. I bet you wouldn't like that, one bit!

(06-24-2017 10:23 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Tax deduction != paying for...

I'm not following your argument, can you explain this please?

If a company can essentially "write off" the money it pays to a health insurance company to subsidize a group plan for its employees, how is that not paying for healthcare?

(06-24-2017 10:23 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 05:58 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  Oops. You just took away employer-provided health insurance for 3/4 of Americans by eliminating federal government tax deductions for corporate health insurance plans. Now they're all out in the individual market, pre-existing conditions and all ... bummer.

Tax deduction != paying for...

Why is this so hard for liberals to undersand..

Forgoing revenue or paying it back out...what is the constructive difference?

(06-25-2017 10:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:15 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 05:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Guys. Some kid reaches their lifetime cap? What is your solution?

Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

diminishing returns for whom?

Because my Grandfather ended upcoming to the US where doctors would treat him. He lived long enough to see to grand children married and several great grandchildren born.

He lived long enough to see old family squbbles set aside, share many meals wit his kids, grandkids, and great grandchildren.

not life...cost of healthcare

good for him....he is simply another that 'earned' relative cost that will continually degrade "care" in the future....

pragmatic = social evil....or do you not understand that concept???

to be specific....as the populous grow, so does the cost....care moving forward will continually trend downward....that's a gimme

The growth of population does not cause an increase in cost, it's the increase in *AGE*... People used to die of diabetes at 30-40.. now they live to 70-80

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

I don't like the strategy of passing something so we can take the next step later.

Look what passing ObamaCare has done. It has given us a rotting mess that is nearly impossible to undo.

Once something is passed it is incredibly difficult to take the next step.

Never mind the next step never happens.

These idiotic baby steps mean nothing. Either the Dems regain control down the line and reverse any (minuscule, meaningless) reverses or the R's never EVER get the job completed. But eventually the Dems are in control. And they will pick up where they left off. The R's aren't even putting up any speed bumps. It simply is a waste of time, any of these crap bills proposed so far. Period.

Repeal it. Gut it. Shred it. Destroy it.

Anything short, don't bother. Just a colossal waste of time.

Can't? Then don't keep it alive. Let it die on it's own. Republicans and Trump are hell bent on keeping it alive. Keeping Obamacare in place is all they've proposed so far. "Cept for the few men with balls. And they're being attacked by the *******.

Right has turned into a bunch of leftist tards. For all the talk of fighting back, sure is a lot of surrendering going on.

(06-25-2017 12:27 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:33 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:15 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 10:03 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 09:54 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Guys. Some older middle aged woman has a cancer which the government deems "too expensive to work on" and shifts the resources to the younger? What is your solution?

> Yes this really happened to my grandparent under the wonderful canadian model.

that is the root problem with the law of diminishing in a capitalistic society....

and at the end of the day, people just have to die....

at the age of 4, my mother freaked out when I told her I didn't want to live past 70.....that was good enough for me then.....it still applies....

people and death......ponce was a pos narcissist....

this goes way deep into the existence of life.....to many don't have an understanding what that truly involves.....

diminishing returns for whom?

Because my Grandfather ended upcoming to the US where doctors would treat him. He lived long enough to see to grand children married and several great grandchildren born.

He lived long enough to see old family squbbles set aside, share many meals wit his kids, grandkids, and great grandchildren.

not life...cost of healthcare

good for him....he is simply another that 'earned' relative cost that will continually degrade "care" in the future....

pragmatic = social evil....or do you not understand that concept???

to be specific....as the populous grow, so does the cost....care moving forward will continually trend downward....that's a gimme

The growth of population does not cause an increase in cost, it's the increase in *AGE*... People used to die of diabetes at 30-40.. now they live to 70-80

...and what age group is now creating demand that is consuming the dollars.....that would be the boomers....ya know, the largest generation in our lifetime that's living longer.....

things will change once they finally die off and the leftovers w/o any dollars or relevant income begin to take over....that's when it's really gonna get ugly....

this a numbers game and wealth siphon....reminds me when gas went to 4/gal overnight after katrina....unfortunately, this gouging is gonna last a little longer....

(06-25-2017 06:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 02:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 06:23 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If the ultimate bill looks like what people are saying it looks like ... I will:

- Never support the GOP itself in any meaningful way for the rest of time
- Vote against whoever voted for it for the rest of time, even if that means pulling the lever for a Democrat
- Actively campaign against in the primaries whoever voted for it for the rest of time
- Pull the plug on the health insurance market entirely and go to secular faith based health sharing organizations.

Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

Once this is passed, you can work on improvements. If you don't get this passed, there may never be another chance. Democrats may well take the House in 2018, especially if nothing gets done.

Obamacare needs to be hacked to pieces as quickly as possible. If the Democrats take the House in 2018 and you haven't hacked it up, its easy to put back together. They will just add more taxes.

Personally, I would have killed the filibuster, repealed it 1-1-2018 and then thrown it open to a fix. But they aren't going to kill the filibuster and the Democrats aren't going to cooperate unless they get crushed in 2018 AND 2020.

This bill is what we have to do. Then we immediately start working on things like tort reform and other fixes.

I don't like the strategy of passing something so we can take the next step later.

Look what passing ObamaCare has done. It has given us a rotting mess that is nearly impossible to undo.

Once something is passed it is incredibly difficult to take the next step.

They don't have 60 votes. Unless you convince them to get rid of the filibuster, they can't do much more than this.

Like it or not single payer is coming. I don't like it but the course we're on has almost guaranteed it since FDR.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(06-25-2017 07:33 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Like it or not single payer is coming. I don't like it but the course we're on has almost guaranteed it since FDR.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

And thus begins the death of our once great country as we spiral into a socialist hell-hole.

They aren't doing ANYTHING. Like I said, not even a speed bump when the Dems get control back.

Get to 60. Unless Trumpers aren't as confident as they claim to be. Trumps doing amazing things. Making the country great again. What's the problem waiting 2 years and doing it right then?

(06-25-2017 07:40 PM)Paul M Wrote:  They aren't doing ANYTHING. Like I said, not even a speed bump when the Dems get control back.

Get to 60. Unless Trumpers aren't as confident as they claim to be. Trumps doing amazing things. Making the country great again. What's the problem waiting 2 years and doing it right then?

#1. Waiting means you lose the House so you can't do anything.
#2. Every year it continues, it gets more entrenched and its tentacles get harder to remove.

(06-25-2017 07:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-25-2017 07:40 PM)Paul M Wrote:  They aren't doing ANYTHING. Like I said, not even a speed bump when the Dems get control back.

Get to 60. Unless Trumpers aren't as confident as they claim to be. Trumps doing amazing things. Making the country great again. What's the problem waiting 2 years and doing it right then?

#1. Waiting means you lose the House so you can't do anything.
#2. Every year it continues, it gets more entrenched and its tentacles get harder to remove.

completely disagree with #2. a natural collapse would work.

although after typing that I thought about it deeper..... I think maybe that's what ushers in single payer. Industry is effectively gutted making it ripe for gov't takeover. I think that was the plan all along.

Bottom line is we're ****** any way you slice this thing. Once pre existing conditions were guaranteed, a private competitive industry was DOA.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app