(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

Did TCU's shine come off?

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

That B1G crucible is a real ***** I guess...

(06-09-2017 03:00 PM)otown Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

Did TCU's shine come off?

Well, they haven't been perennial Big XII champions have they?

Competitive? Yes. A "powerhouse", not so much.

(06-09-2017 05:32 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

That B1G crucible is a real ***** I guess...

Any team from a P5 conference will have a better field of competition than was the MAC.

(06-08-2017 09:34 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Sure....losing the Access Bowl to the MAC and their pitiful performance in the bowls really says P6.

The thing is, it wouldn't matter if the AAC was getting the Access Bowl spot every year and winning that and their other bowls: Being a "power" conference has zero to do with results on the field.

I doesn't matter what the AAC needs. It is highly unlikely to get it.

The people the conf hired on tv said we were undervalued 80% of football, and 25% on BB, which means next tv deal will likely be 3.5 to 4 mil. While that may further point to tweener status, It wont get us in the neighborhood of P5. We at best will pull of getting one bowl of higher status than now, but it won't be a heavy hitter type bowl. That again will help proving tweener status, but wont help with P5.

Outside of BYU there is no schools out there that would move that needle enough to be worth the effort. We are what we are,

Clubs in the old International League, Amer Assn and PCL in baseball along with the AHL in hockey were all competitive and interesting to watch - until the bigs (over?) expanded. As long as the P5 membership stays at 65, the AAC and MWC will provide the same entertainment. Just be content with your lot.

(06-09-2017 09:28 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 03:00 PM)otown Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

Did TCU's shine come off?

Well, they haven't been perennial Big XII champions have they?

Competitive? Yes. A "powerhouse", not so much.

TCU has done well and it has only been a short period of time.

By your standard the power conferences would have no more than 10-20 teams.... And your Badgers would likely not make the cut.

(06-10-2017 09:22 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I doesn't matter what the AAC needs. It is highly unlikely to get it.

The people the conf hired on tv said we were undervalued 80% of football, and 25% on BB, which means next tv deal will likely be 3.5 to 4 mil. While that may further point to tweener status, It wont get us in the neighborhood of P5. We at best will pull of getting one bowl of higher status than now, but it won't be a heavy hitter type bowl. That again will help proving tweener status, but wont help with P5.

Outside of BYU there is no schools out there that would move that needle enough to be worth the effort. We are what we are,

That's not what they said. Im guessing you skimmed the summary someone else wrote after listening to a radio interview with a Memphis official. What he actually said was the experts the AAC said we are undervalued. He then went on to say that the experts said about 80% of the value of a media deal comes from football.

Look, we can pretty much count on about 3-4 million a team as a rock bottom offer. That's nothing more than than ESPN throwing us a small 5 million dollar raise, the CBS-Sports tier being sold for 12 million (about what they pay the MW for MUCH lower ratings). plus 5 million for Navy sports and 3 million for UConn womens basketball from SNY.

That's 3.75 million a year per team. There is pretty decent chance it will be higher than that. Why? The reason is with the ratings the AAC has shown it can deliver----there are plenty of biidders willing to take a flyer on the AAC inventory that gets 50-75% of P5 ratings at 10-30% of the price. Even at 10 million a team, the AAC inventory is selling at a 70% discount over current P5 market prices. So, getting 50-75% of the ratings at 10-30% of the price is money maker all day long. ESPN is free to low ball---but they will lose the inventory if they stick with that strategy--because NBC, CBS-Sports, and new entrants like Amazon and BeIn are looking for cheap sports inventory that delivers a better bang for the buck. Look at how recent MLS and Premier deals stack up. Those are properties are offering similar or lower ratings than the AAC. Premier soccer just got over 100 million a year for US rights from NBC--and has ratiings similar to the AAC. The 2015 MLS deal is split between ESPN, FOX, and Univision and pays 90 million a year. The MLS ratings are significantly lower than AAC ratings. My guess is the AAC ends up in the 5-8 million a team range. Thats somewhere between 60-96 million a year. I think the AAC is line for a sizable raise based on comparable media properties.

Maybe someone like Turner would be interested in picking up the American at a bargain rate and give them the proper exposure. It would be awesome to find someone willing to air a package that included a weekly Thursday night game and then a noon, 3:30, and prime time tv slot on Saturday.

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

Thing is it's not just a flash in the pan. AAC schools consistently hold their own against the P5. When ECU beat a bowl winning NCSU team last year (our worst year in decades as we were tied for last in the AAC East), it represented 6 consecutive wins for ECU against the ACC and most of those were against bowl teams.

The AAC as a whole is batting about .500 against the ACC the last few years (actually had a winning record against the ACC in 2015). It's not surprising that when the AAC has made it to a major bowl the last few years both teams UCF & UH rolled FSU & Baylor (Big 12 champ).

Bottom line is, while the AAC isn't up to P5 standards yet, the AAC is closer to the P5 than the G4 from a competitive standpoint, facilities, tradition, & fan support, particularly when taking basketball into the equation. AAC will not get nearly as much TV money as the P5 but will get significantly more than anybody else (I will guess at least $5-6 Million per school). Accordingly, the AAC really shouldn't be considered in either 'group' of conferences because it's sort of an anomaly.

The AAC is a G5, and arguably not even the best G5. Outside of last year the MW has outperformed the AAC.


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(06-10-2017 07:09 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  The AAC is a G5, and arguably not even the best G5. Outside of last year the MW has outperformed the AAC.

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With three years wth of CFP data (officially agreed to G5 rankings) to compare, the AAC has finished ahead of the MWC twice.

(06-09-2017 09:03 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 07:55 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 01:23 AM)ColKurtz Wrote:  NY6 bowls are consolation prizes for 3-4 of the P5 conferences. An undefeated G5 team qualifying for a consolation prize doth not make them P5.

Excellent point! Taking it a step further, to remain in the upper tier, a P5 conference must regularly put schools in the CFP itself and pick up multiple NY6 invites each year.

That's mainly the reason the Big East was always on the fringe or talked about as being undeserving. During Big East 2.0, there wasn't consistently a national champ contender and there were years the BE champ wasn't deserving of an AQ bowl.

FWIW I think the system we have now accurately reflects expectations -- it doesn't consider that multiple conference winners from the American, MWC et. al. are deserving but usually one of them would be. That's its glaring weakness as I see it. If there are 2 undefeated G5 champs, one of them went undefeated the wrong year.

There wasn't a national title contender because of how biased the polls were.

Another dynamic/metric worth considering...

Big 12 is closer to AAC than any P5 league... (drafted players wise)

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...s-american

Drafted players by conference in last 5 NFL drafts
(Total Number of drafted defensive players)

SEC: 136
ACC: 112
Big Ten: 92
Pac-12: 84
Big 12: 48
American: 42
Mountain West: 24
C-USA: 18
MAC: 17
Sun Belt: 9

(06-09-2017 09:03 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 07:55 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 01:23 AM)ColKurtz Wrote:  NY6 bowls are consolation prizes for 3-4 of the P5 conferences. An undefeated G5 team qualifying for a consolation prize doth not make them P5.

Excellent point! Taking it a step further, to remain in the upper tier, a P5 conference must regularly put schools in the CFP itself and pick up multiple NY6 invites each year.

That's mainly the reason the Big East was always on the fringe or talked about as being undeserving. During Big East 2.0, there wasn't consistently a national champ contender and there were years the BE champ wasn't deserving of an AQ bowl.

FWIW I think the system we have now accurately reflects expectations -- it doesn't consider that multiple conference winners from the American, MWC et. al. are deserving but usually one of them would be. That's its glaring weakness as I see it. If there are 2 undefeated G5 champs, one of them went undefeated the wrong year.

This scenario scares the crap out of the P5 and, by extension, ESPN.

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

Mainly because it's rigged in the big boys favor. An up and comer can't rise up and make a name for themselves because the big boys move the fences or goalposts to preserve their power, which is fine. That is life and reality.

But Wake Forest is in the club because they joined the right one at the right time, then Florida State elevated that club in football with even better timing. BYU is out of the club because it wasn't far enough east to be in a better conference when the BCS started. Well, that and politics/religion.

Northwestern has basically no history after decades in the B1G. Houston was an upstart that competed for national titles and forced their way into the club only to be kicked out due to politics and timing.

So yes, upsets happen and most of those in the best conferences deserve to be there based on history and institutional profile but stop. Few new schools can dream of moving up because it's locked away from them. Money, power, prestige, attention, etc...

Utah State has the most players of any G5 on NFL rosters.




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'P6' is silly.

What the AAC can control is to continue to improve top-to-bottom and hopefully be able to poach away 1-2 more top G5 programs (which could improve the TV deal). This takes time, but I think you have a great combination of ADs in this conference. It will get better.

(06-10-2017 02:41 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 09:28 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 03:00 PM)otown Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 11:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Hate to break it to some folks, but just because a non P5 jumps up and bites a P5 school occasionally doesn't mean they deserve a place at the table.

You're always going to have upsets and shockers, but that has been and will always be the exception, not the norm.

That's not to say that there aren't any decent non P5 teams, but rather if they had to play an SEC or B1G schedule on a regular basis, the shine would be off Cinderella's glass slippers rather fast

Did TCU's shine come off?

Well, they haven't been perennial Big XII champions have they?

Competitive? Yes. A "powerhouse", not so much.

TCU has done well and it has only been a short period of time.

By your standard the power conferences would have no more than 10-20 teams.... And your Badgers would likely not make the cut.

Besides the fact that the Badgers have been one of the most consistent and successful programs in the B1G for the the last 25 years, the big question you have to ask is "if (name the conference) were to fold, would another conference take said team"?

Wisconsin, without a doubt. TCU, probably on the outside looking in. As for the AAC, MWC, etc. if one of the P5 wanted them, they'd already be in.

That pretty much speaks volumes.