To everyone wanting to elevate a school from Minnesota to D-In STOP. No one outside of this forum is talking of a moveup by anyone. And you know why? The legislature will not allow it. Full stop.

(04-03-2017 11:16 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  To everyone wanting to elevate a school from Minnesota to D-In STOP. No one outside of this forum is talking of a moveup by anyone. And you know why? The legislature will not allow it. Full stop.

That is a long time ago. This is now, and there are different people elected that would have a say so now. Elevating another Minnesota public school to D1 is not for being in competition, but for helping Minnesota to cut down on spending money by having a close by opponent for olympic sports. Since you have schools like California and Michigan in debt? You could imagine Minnesota is going into debt. The traveling costs is becoming out of control.

http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/sport...c316b.html

Anybody think Northeast Oklahoma State leaving the MIAA to a new conference? Could they be going D1? If they do? Where do you think they will fit? They are in the Tulsa area.

(04-04-2017 01:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/sport...c316b.html

Anybody think Northeast Oklahoma State leaving the MIAA to a new conference? Could they be going D1? If they do? Where do you think they will fit? They are in the Tulsa area.

Sounds more like they plan to go down a level, but stay in D-II. They have spent a ton of money on facilities and no fans are showing up and the teams are getting beat a lot. Complaints about football arms race. The article even says which conferences they are looking at. These are all D-II.

Quote:Next week’s forums will present detailed conference information – research and reports on budgets, facilities, fit, rivalries, scholarships and travel – relating to the MIAA, GAC and LSC. Afterward, NSU will open the floor to attendees that wish to offer feedback and opinions

I think you need read the article before you make some crazy claim about some school going D-I.

(04-04-2017 01:15 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 01:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/sport...c316b.html

Anybody think Northeast Oklahoma State leaving the MIAA to a new conference? Could they be going D1? If they do? Where do you think they will fit? They are in the Tulsa area.

Sounds more like they plan to go down a level, but stay in D-II. They have spent a ton of money on facilities and no fans are showing up and the teams are getting beat a lot. Complaints about football arms race. The article even says which conferences they are looking at. These are all D-II.

Quote:Next week’s forums will present detailed conference information – research and reports on budgets, facilities, fit, rivalries, scholarships and travel – relating to the MIAA, GAC and LSC. Afterward, NSU will open the floor to attendees that wish to offer feedback and opinions

I think you need read the article before you make some crazy claim about some school going D-I.

GAC is at 12 schools. Central Oklahoma is a key factor to going to D1.
Lone Star Conference have all the Texas schools exploring D1. GAC might be the logical place to go. Would GAC grab Northeastern? Could they grab Hendrix from D3 or Lyon from NAIA? The dominoes from Wichita State could reach down to the D2 level in the region.

(04-03-2017 09:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here's my take on the Wichita St domino effect:

The lead candidates for their spot are UIC and Valpo. UMKC and Murray St might have an outside chance.

If Valpo leaves the Horizon I fully expect the Horizon to fill their spot with IUPUI or IPFW with the Jaguars being the stronger candidate. Robert Morris is an interesting thought but it would throw off the travel pairs. The reason there was opposition to IUPUI and IPFW in the Horizon was that private schools Valpo and Butler took a NIMBY approach to public schools sharing their markets. IF Valpo is gone then so is that opposition. Even if UIC is the one that departs and not Valpo I still think IUPUI is a strong candidate.

If IUPUI leaves the Summit I think the Summit's candidates are UMKC, and dipping into DII for Duluth or St Cloud St. Eventually bringing the Minnesota schools in gives them a chance to bring hockey sponsorship to the Summit and probably wrangle control of the MVFC.

It wasn't just the private schools, iirc, but they lead the charge. You have some public ones who weren't/aren't fond of them. Like a quarrel among the state system schools, there's a difference between UIC and UW-M to the Ohio schools, and a bit of one from that bloc to the IUPU's.

Robert Morris might be the fix. Belmont's waiting for the full SoCon invite.

(04-03-2017 09:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The problem is usually not very good matchups in November in the SBC. Would more people watch the games if it is an unbeaten Georgia Southern Vs an unbeaten Jacksonville State or unbeaten Georgia Southern VS 4-7 Georgia State on tv? The Georgia Southern/Jacksonville State game could draw excitement than against Georgia State. Arkansas State Vs unbeaten Sam Houston State in November could be attractive on tv than against Arkansas State Vs. 3-8 Texas State. You need something to attract viewers that would generate money.

*sigh*

You dont quite have the knowledge you think you have. I hate Georgia Southern but this game sells 20k plus tickets at their place and $25k plus at ours even when neither is particularly any good. Jacksonville State would not sell half that at either place.

JSU home attendance is 17K +/- in the OVC. If memory serves me right, when JSU played AT Georgia State, twice, JSU had about 40% or the crowd.

(04-04-2017 04:54 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-03-2017 09:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here's my take on the Wichita St domino effect:

The lead candidates for their spot are UIC and Valpo. UMKC and Murray St might have an outside chance.

If Valpo leaves the Horizon I fully expect the Horizon to fill their spot with IUPUI or IPFW with the Jaguars being the stronger candidate. Robert Morris is an interesting thought but it would throw off the travel pairs. The reason there was opposition to IUPUI and IPFW in the Horizon was that private schools Valpo and Butler took a NIMBY approach to public schools sharing their markets. IF Valpo is gone then so is that opposition. Even if UIC is the one that departs and not Valpo I still think IUPUI is a strong candidate.

If IUPUI leaves the Summit I think the Summit's candidates are UMKC, and dipping into DII for Duluth or St Cloud St. Eventually bringing the Minnesota schools in gives them a chance to bring hockey sponsorship to the Summit and probably wrangle control of the MVFC.

It wasn't just the private schools, iirc, but they lead the charge. You have some public ones who weren't/aren't fond of them. Like a quarrel among the state system schools, there's a difference between UIC and UW-M to the Ohio schools, and a bit of one from that bloc to the IUPU's.

Robert Morris might be the fix. Belmont's waiting for the full SoCon invite.

Do you recall which public schools dislike IUPUI and IPFW?

The trouble with Robert Morris is that it throws of the travel pairs:

Milwaukee & Green Bay
NKU & Wright St
Detroit Mercy & Oakland
Youngstown St & Cleveland St
Valpo & UIC

UIC and Valpo are the most likely to depart so it would be logical to replace them with either an Indiana or Illinois school.

There just isn't an Indiana or Illinois school that meets the Horizon requirements. Chicago is a hub, so you could just add any school which is also a hub.

But again the Horizon doesn't have to add anyone. They lived with 9 for a long while, they can live with 9 again for awhile. Why take a school that doesn't meet your criteria just so your intern can have an easier time making the Basketball schedule? Make him earn his minimum wage.

(04-04-2017 04:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There just isn't an Indiana or Illinois school that meets the Horizon requirements. Chicago is a hub, so you could just add any school which is also a hub.

But again the Horizon doesn't have to add anyone. They lived with 9 for a long while, they can live with 9 again for awhile. Why take a school that doesn't meet your criteria just so your intern can have an easier time making the Basketball schedule? Make him earn his minimum wage.

It's not just that. When the BSC was at 9, the football coaches loved it, all other team sports hated it

(04-04-2017 04:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There just isn't an Indiana or Illinois school that meets the Horizon requirements. Chicago is a hub, so you could just add any school which is also a hub.

But again the Horizon doesn't have to add anyone. They lived with 9 for a long while, they can live with 9 again for awhile. Why take a school that doesn't meet your criteria just so your intern can have an easier time making the Basketball schedule? Make him earn his minimum wage.

It's not just that. When the BSC was at 9, the football coaches loved it, all other team sports hated it

The other sports are all even when UIC leaves:

WVB = 8 (UDM doesn't sponsor)
BB = 6 (UWM, Cleve St, UDM don't sponsor)
SB = 8 (UWM doesn't sponsor)
MS = 8 (Belmont leaving, YSU doesn't sponsor)

It's actually easier, no byes as they now have.

(04-04-2017 04:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There just isn't an Indiana or Illinois school that meets the Horizon requirements. Chicago is a hub, so you could just add any school which is also a hub.

But again the Horizon doesn't have to add anyone. They lived with 9 for a long while, they can live with 9 again for awhile. Why take a school that doesn't meet your criteria just so your intern can have an easier time making the Basketball schedule? Make him earn his minimum wage.

It's not just that. When the BSC was at 9, the football coaches loved it, all other team sports hated it

9 is perfect for football - 4 home/4 away. 10 is perfect for basketball, 18 game round robin conference schedule.

(04-04-2017 04:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There just isn't an Indiana or Illinois school that meets the Horizon requirements. Chicago is a hub, so you could just add any school which is also a hub.

But again the Horizon doesn't have to add anyone. They lived with 9 for a long while, they can live with 9 again for awhile. Why take a school that doesn't meet your criteria just so your intern can have an easier time making the Basketball schedule? Make him earn his minimum wage.

It's not just about making it easy to set up a schedule--there are travel considerations involved as well.

Why doesn't IUPUI meet the requirements? Big Midwestern city, convenient travel partner with both UIC or Valpo, decent sports offerings.

IUPUI doesn't fund their program to Horizon standards -- they basically need to double funding. They are also facing budgetary problems. And attendance is far lower than anyone in the Horizon. Just not attractive at this time. You want somebody already funded at the level of the top half of your conference and with attendance in the same range.

Travel issues are far less than you realize. These schools are all within 3 hours of each other by commuter hop and bus trip. They lived with 9 Basketball schools for a long time, just like the Big West, because of that 3 hour travel to each other. Partners are a little easier on the scheduler, but the short commuter hop means you can swap out a Chicago school (and you will have only one) with any other on any given week. It's not that big a deal. The Horizon TV deal means they have an odd game every week for TV, which helps fix the "odd" team problem. And as I mentioned, the other team sports have even number of teams, so no byes there.

There is no compelling need to take a school who does not meet their athletic and academic requirements. So why take one simply because your intern might complain about having to work a bit harder to get the schedule done? Wait for a school to become available that is a good fit and meets the criteria. Don't make a panic move because some intern might complain.

(04-04-2017 04:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:54 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-03-2017 09:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here's my take on the Wichita St domino effect:

The lead candidates for their spot are UIC and Valpo. UMKC and Murray St might have an outside chance.

If Valpo leaves the Horizon I fully expect the Horizon to fill their spot with IUPUI or IPFW with the Jaguars being the stronger candidate. Robert Morris is an interesting thought but it would throw off the travel pairs. The reason there was opposition to IUPUI and IPFW in the Horizon was that private schools Valpo and Butler took a NIMBY approach to public schools sharing their markets. IF Valpo is gone then so is that opposition. Even if UIC is the one that departs and not Valpo I still think IUPUI is a strong candidate.

If IUPUI leaves the Summit I think the Summit's candidates are UMKC, and dipping into DII for Duluth or St Cloud St. Eventually bringing the Minnesota schools in gives them a chance to bring hockey sponsorship to the Summit and probably wrangle control of the MVFC.

It wasn't just the private schools, iirc, but they lead the charge. You have some public ones who weren't/aren't fond of them. Like a quarrel among the state system schools, there's a difference between UIC and UW-M to the Ohio schools, and a bit of one from that bloc to the IUPU's.

Robert Morris might be the fix. Belmont's waiting for the full SoCon invite.

Do you recall which public schools dislike IUPUI and IPFW?

The trouble with Robert Morris is that it throws of the travel pairs:

Milwaukee & Green Bay
NKU & Wright St
Detroit Mercy & Oakland
Youngstown St & Cleveland St
Valpo & UIC

UIC and Valpo are the most likely to depart so it would be logical to replace them with either an Indiana or Illinois school.

Robert Morris and invite either West Chester, Indiana PA, Lock Haven, Slippery Rock, Lake Erie or Kutztown. Have the football schools of Robert Morris and the D2 play football in the Big South.

Illinois-Springfield or Quincy to replace UIC

Indianapolis, IUPUI, IUPUFW or Southern Indiana to replace Valparaiso.

If the MVFC do break away and formed a new conference for all sports along the lines of MVFC credits for football? I could see the privates non-football schools join the Horizon and give the MVFC the basketball credits of the MVC.

MVC new lineup:
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Invite for all sports.
Youngstown State
Western Illinois
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Who could be number 12?

Washburn
Chadron State
Minnesota State-Mankato
Grand Valley State
Wayne State, Mich.
Missouri Southern
Missouri Western
Lindenwood
Central Oklahoma
Arkansas Tech (Tech could get more students than Arkansas State several years down the road.)
Central Arkansas
Northeastern Oklahoma State
Ashland
Findlay
Indianapolis
Colorado Mines
Northern Colorado
Colorado State-Pueblo
Tarleton State
Commerce
Kingsville
Midwestern State

(04-04-2017 04:58 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There just isn't an Indiana or Illinois school that meets the Horizon requirements. Chicago is a hub, so you could just add any school which is also a hub.

But again the Horizon doesn't have to add anyone. They lived with 9 for a long while, they can live with 9 again for awhile. Why take a school that doesn't meet your criteria just so your intern can have an easier time making the Basketball schedule? Make him earn his minimum wage.

It's not just that. When the BSC was at 9, the football coaches loved it, all other team sports hated it

9 is perfect for football - 4 home/4 away. 10 is perfect for basketball, 18 game round robin conference schedule.

Plus nine means a built in bye weekend.

No it doesn't. You can do a triangle on some weeks. When a "pair" play each other on an even number of teams, they have only one game that week. But you can get it to two games by each hosting or visiting a 3rd team. That allows one of the games to be a Monday or Tuesday night TV game.

Basketball is trickier than other sports to schedule because of the pairing, and use of gyms for other events. When the pairs play each other, you have only one game that week for them (if even). And you can only have one pair (or two in a 12 or larger conference) play each other in a given week, in order to advance the schedule. I know as I have been the scheduler. But it is very doable to have an odd number to get everyone their two games. Especially when they are all only 3 hours apart as in the Horizon.

(04-04-2017 05:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  MVC new lineup:
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Invite for all sports.
Youngstown State
Western Illinois
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Who could be number 12?

Washburn
Chadron State
Minnesota State-Mankato
Grand Valley State
Wayne State, Mich.
Missouri Southern
Missouri Western
Lindenwood
Central Oklahoma
Arkansas Tech (Tech could get more students than Arkansas State several years down the road.)
Central Arkansas
Northeastern Oklahoma State
Ashland
Findlay
Indianapolis
Colorado Mines
Northern Colorado
Colorado State-Pueblo
Tarleton State
Commerce
Kingsville
Midwestern State

Every time I read a list with possible Midwest school from you, David, I feel a great sadness that you've overlooked Thomas More and Hebrew Union College as candidates for Division I.

(04-01-2017 03:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  MVC adds Illinois-Chicago. Don't know who the Horizon goes after.

Just to revisit this. It's been 5 days since you first posted this and you've since stood by it because of a source. Since then, have you heard anything to the contrary? The reason I'm asking is that I've heard from someone who says he heard the Valley will be choosing from Omaha, Kansas City and Valpo. There was no mention of UIC.