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(05-28-2018 11:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:16 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 07:34 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 05:20 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 05:10 PM)rosewater Wrote:  But compared to nothing, it is a lot of money for UC and Clifton restaurants. Changing the integrity of the stadium with the notches is not a rationale argument. Nippert looks nothing like it did circa 1991 when I went to school. Anyway, nothing for any of us to get the blood pressure up.

The purists feel that Nippert should lay dormant for everything except FB. It should never be used for anything else...even in the off-season.

I think it actually hurts their pride that the AD needs the $$ and that FB is not the cash cow they envision. They believe UC should be an NC contender when they have nowhere near the personnel or tradition to even approach that level. They are honestly shocked when the team comes up snake-eyes against poor competition.

Believe me.

I want Nip to earn more money, just did not want it permanently altered. Would be in favor of outdoor concerts, HS football, and even kickball if not altered.

The Nip has been permanently altered many times over the last 15 years without comment from the purists. Only when the notches came in did we hear protest...this leads me to believe that the opposition is to soccer, and not the fact that the facility is being altered.

The issue is not kickball or modifications, it is aesthetics!

What was done is UGLY.

...and you think that press box/private box area is attractive? Doesn't fit with the rest of the architecture and looks like it's going to fall over any second...a steel and glass eyesore...

I heard no complaints.

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 11:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:16 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 07:34 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 05:20 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  The purists feel that Nippert should lay dormant for everything except FB. It should never be used for anything else...even in the off-season.

I think it actually hurts their pride that the AD needs the $$ and that FB is not the cash cow they envision. They believe UC should be an NC contender when they have nowhere near the personnel or tradition to even approach that level. They are honestly shocked when the team comes up snake-eyes against poor competition.

Believe me.

I want Nip to earn more money, just did not want it permanently altered. Would be in favor of outdoor concerts, HS football, and even kickball if not altered.

The Nip has been permanently altered many times over the last 15 years without comment from the purists. Only when the notches came in did we hear protest...this leads me to believe that the opposition is to soccer, and not the fact that the facility is being altered.

The issue is not kickball or modifications, it is aesthetics!

What was done is UGLY.

...and you think that press box/private box area is attractive? Doesn't fit with the rest of the architecture and looks like it's going to fall over any second...a steel and glass eyesore...

I heard no complaints.

I think it is spectacular. I wish we had made the B12 so similar boxes would be added on the north side.

(05-28-2018 05:09 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 11:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:16 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 07:34 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I want Nip to earn more money, just did not want it permanently altered. Would be in favor of outdoor concerts, HS football, and even kickball if not altered.

The Nip has been permanently altered many times over the last 15 years without comment from the purists. Only when the notches came in did we hear protest...this leads me to believe that the opposition is to soccer, and not the fact that the facility is being altered.

The issue is not kickball or modifications, it is aesthetics!

What was done is UGLY.

...and you think that press box/private box area is attractive? Doesn't fit with the rest of the architecture and looks like it's going to fall over any second...a steel and glass eyesore...

I heard no complaints.

I think it is spectacular. I wish we had made the B12 so similar boxes would be added on the north side.

To each his own...no accounting for taste...I thought as a traditionalist you would champion the brick and mortar motif that was the original architectural design.

(05-28-2018 05:09 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 11:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:16 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 07:34 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I want Nip to earn more money, just did not want it permanently altered. Would be in favor of outdoor concerts, HS football, and even kickball if not altered.

The Nip has been permanently altered many times over the last 15 years without comment from the purists. Only when the notches came in did we hear protest...this leads me to believe that the opposition is to soccer, and not the fact that the facility is being altered.

The issue is not kickball or modifications, it is aesthetics!

What was done is UGLY.

...and you think that press box/private box area is attractive? Doesn't fit with the rest of the architecture and looks like it's going to fall over any second...a steel and glass eyesore...

I heard no complaints.

I think it is spectacular. I wish we had made the B12 so similar boxes would be added on the north side.

Spectacular sums it up pretty well. Nippert looks terrific on national television. The recent renovation and addition of the boxes/club seats was a creative blending of old and new elements--much like the rest of the nationally acclaimed campus.

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  ...I heard no complaints.

Only because you don't care to listen.

Part of what has driven me nuts about this whole argument is that people don't care to hear any opinion beyond their own. If you go back and read the history of this thread, it's almost pure "strawman" arguments. "You just don't like soccer...." "You just want Nippert to stay empty during off-seasons..." "You just don't want other things in there except football..." And while there have been the occasional moronic "Well, soccer is a communist plot..." troll-bait posts, none of those have really been about what the substance of the debate really was about. (Feed the trolls at your own peril and misery, FWIW...)

But the reality is that the "notches" are here to stay. Period. End-of-story. Like them or hate them, they're here. I think it's somewhat...ah...funny...that nobody has recently dredged up the old rumor that a "party deck" or "on the field VIP area" would eventually be installed in "the notch" areas. (Yet another "strawman" argument, but on the "pro" side of the issue, I guess...) Now, two years on, the "notches" are just what they are: a cut-out space on the "South" end of the lower bowl. From an aesthetics standpoint, I wish they had just removed the lower five-or-so rows all the way around the bowl--all the same arguments hold for those seats: obstructed views, nobody likes to sit in those first five rows behind the benches, etc... If you're going to make the field as versatile as possible and friendly for other events (like soccer in this case), then do it up properly.

(05-28-2018 09:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  ...I heard no complaints.

Only because you don't care to listen.

Part of what has driven me nuts about this whole argument is that people don't care to hear any opinion beyond their own. If you go back and read the history of this thread, it's almost pure "strawman" arguments. "You just don't like soccer...." "You just want Nippert to stay empty during off-seasons..." "You just don't want other things in there except football..." And while there have been the occasional moronic "Well, soccer is a communist plot..." troll-bait posts, none of those have really been about what the substance of the debate really was about. (Feed the trolls at your own peril and misery, FWIW...)

But the reality is that the "notches" are here to stay. Period. End-of-story. Like them or hate them, they're here. I think it's somewhat...ah...funny...that nobody has recently dredged up the old rumor that a "party deck" or "on the field VIP area" would eventually be installed in "the notch" areas. (Yet another "strawman" argument, but on the "pro" side of the issue, I guess...) Now, two years on, the "notches" are just what they are: a cut-out space on the "South" end of the lower bowl. From an aesthetics standpoint, I wish they had just removed the lower five-or-so rows all the way around the bowl--all the same arguments hold for those seats: obstructed views, nobody likes to sit in those first five rows behind the benches, etc... If you're going to make the field as versatile as possible and friendly for other events (like soccer in this case), then do it up properly.

I was under the impression that there was an agreement to remove the notches if/when FCC got in the mls and built a new stadium, so not sure where "here to stay" is coming from. BTW, if you did take five rows out, the place would look more like an auto racing oval than a football stadium.

(05-27-2018 05:10 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 03:51 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 12:12 PM)rosewater Wrote:  I really do not understand this thread and I am sure as heck not going to go through the posts that I missed. Why do we care that Nippert is subleased for a lot of money to a soccer club. This is a win for all parties. The notches???????????? Seriously?????????

Because it's really not a lot of money. Certainly less than market value in may people's opinion.

But compared to nothing, it is a lot of money for UC and Clifton restaurants. Changing the integrity of the stadium with the notches is not a rationale argument. Nippert looks nothing like it did circa 1991 when I went to school. Anyway, nothing for any of us to get the blood pressure up.

Heck, the entire campus has changed since 1991.

(05-28-2018 09:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  ...I heard no complaints.

Only because you don't care to listen.

Part of what has driven me nuts about this whole argument is that people don't care to hear any opinion beyond their own. If you go back and read the history of this thread, it's almost pure "strawman" arguments. "You just don't like soccer...." "You just want Nippert to stay empty during off-seasons..." "You just don't want other things in there except football..." And while there have been the occasional moronic "Well, soccer is a communist plot..." troll-bait posts, none of those have really been about what the substance of the debate really was about. (Feed the trolls at your own peril and misery, FWIW...)

But the reality is that the "notches" are here to stay. Period. End-of-story. Like them or hate them, they're here. I think it's somewhat...ah...funny...that nobody has recently dredged up the old rumor that a "party deck" or "on the field VIP area" would eventually be installed in "the notch" areas. (Yet another "strawman" argument, but on the "pro" side of the issue, I guess...) Now, two years on, the "notches" are just what they are: a cut-out space on the "South" end of the lower bowl. From an aesthetics standpoint, I wish they had just removed the lower five-or-so rows all the way around the bowl--all the same arguments hold for those seats: obstructed views, nobody likes to sit in those first five rows behind the benches, etc... If you're going to make the field as versatile as possible and friendly for other events (like soccer in this case), then do it up properly.

If you were paying attention you would know that there is actually an on field VIP area in that corner for FCC games.

(05-29-2018 09:52 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  ...I heard no complaints.

Only because you don't care to listen.

Part of what has driven me nuts about this whole argument is that people don't care to hear any opinion beyond their own. If you go back and read the history of this thread, it's almost pure "strawman" arguments. "You just don't like soccer...." "You just want Nippert to stay empty during off-seasons..." "You just don't want other things in there except football..." And while there have been the occasional moronic "Well, soccer is a communist plot..." troll-bait posts, none of those have really been about what the substance of the debate really was about. (Feed the trolls at your own peril and misery, FWIW...)

But the reality is that the "notches" are here to stay. Period. End-of-story. Like them or hate them, they're here. I think it's somewhat...ah...funny...that nobody has recently dredged up the old rumor that a "party deck" or "on the field VIP area" would eventually be installed in "the notch" areas. (Yet another "strawman" argument, but on the "pro" side of the issue, I guess...) Now, two years on, the "notches" are just what they are: a cut-out space on the "South" end of the lower bowl. From an aesthetics standpoint, I wish they had just removed the lower five-or-so rows all the way around the bowl--all the same arguments hold for those seats: obstructed views, nobody likes to sit in those first five rows behind the benches, etc... If you're going to make the field as versatile as possible and friendly for other events (like soccer in this case), then do it up properly.

If you were paying attention you would know that there is actually an on field VIP area in that corner for FCC games.

I posted this in another thread (maybe the OT thread). I haven't been to an FC game but I caught maybe 10 mins of one on TV earlier this year. I noticed that there were people in the notches but also there were video ribbon boards running the length of the field just a few feet away from the boundary lines. It prompted me to wonder what the necessity of the field expansion was. I thought it was for player safety or to expand the field to a regulation size but that 'new' space seemed to be largely inaccessible to the field of play. At least to my eye viewing it on TV.

(05-29-2018 09:31 AM)kmfloyd Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 05:10 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 03:51 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 12:12 PM)rosewater Wrote:  I really do not understand this thread and I am sure as heck not going to go through the posts that I missed. Why do we care that Nippert is subleased for a lot of money to a soccer club. This is a win for all parties. The notches???????????? Seriously?????????

Because it's really not a lot of money. Certainly less than market value in may people's opinion.

But compared to nothing, it is a lot of money for UC and Clifton restaurants. Changing the integrity of the stadium with the notches is not a rationale argument. Nippert looks nothing like it did circa 1991 when I went to school. Anyway, nothing for any of us to get the blood pressure up.

Heck, the entire campus has changed since 1991.

We won't rest until they remove the SmartBoards in all of the classrooms and put the old chalkboards back. WHO'S WITH ME!?!?!

(05-29-2018 03:02 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 09:52 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:16 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  ...I heard no complaints.

Only because you don't care to listen.

Part of what has driven me nuts about this whole argument is that people don't care to hear any opinion beyond their own. If you go back and read the history of this thread, it's almost pure "strawman" arguments. "You just don't like soccer...." "You just want Nippert to stay empty during off-seasons..." "You just don't want other things in there except football..." And while there have been the occasional moronic "Well, soccer is a communist plot..." troll-bait posts, none of those have really been about what the substance of the debate really was about. (Feed the trolls at your own peril and misery, FWIW...)

But the reality is that the "notches" are here to stay. Period. End-of-story. Like them or hate them, they're here. I think it's somewhat...ah...funny...that nobody has recently dredged up the old rumor that a "party deck" or "on the field VIP area" would eventually be installed in "the notch" areas. (Yet another "strawman" argument, but on the "pro" side of the issue, I guess...) Now, two years on, the "notches" are just what they are: a cut-out space on the "South" end of the lower bowl. From an aesthetics standpoint, I wish they had just removed the lower five-or-so rows all the way around the bowl--all the same arguments hold for those seats: obstructed views, nobody likes to sit in those first five rows behind the benches, etc... If you're going to make the field as versatile as possible and friendly for other events (like soccer in this case), then do it up properly.

If you were paying attention you would know that there is actually an on field VIP area in that corner for FCC games.

I posted this in another thread (maybe the OT thread). I haven't been to an FC game but I caught maybe 10 mins of one on TV earlier this year. I noticed that there were people in the notches but also there were video ribbon boards running the length of the field just a few feet away from the boundary lines. It prompted me to wonder what the necessity of the field expansion was. I thought it was for player safety or to expand the field to a regulation size but that 'new' space seemed to be largely inaccessible to the field of play. At least to my eye viewing it on TV.

That should give you a decent visual.

Looks to me that wihout the notches you couldnt run up to a decent corner kick.

60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

(05-29-2018 08:53 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

The NBA and NHL also play in smaller venues, so overall comparison of attendance isn't really accurate. In my eyes the biggest uphill battle the MSL faces is that the NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA are clearly the best professional leagues for their respective sports in the World. On the world stage of soccer, where does the MLS rate? Maybe a AAA or high AA farm team in baseball? Despite the size of this country, the men's talent in the US is so bad they couldn't even qualify for the World Cup.

(05-29-2018 09:16 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 08:53 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

The NBA and NHL also play in smaller venues, so overall comparison of attendance isn't really accurate. In my eyes the biggest uphill battle the MSL faces is that the NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA are clearly the best professional leagues for their respective sports in the World. On the world stage of soccer, where does the MLS rate? Maybe a AAA or high AA farm team in baseball? Despite the size of this country, the men's talent in the US is so bad they couldn't even qualify for the World Cup.

Unlike Romell's nonsense, that's a fair argument Jackie. At this point, MLS is probably 6th or so in the world. When you watch a Bundesliga or Premier League match, you can certainly see the difference in quality. In person, the games are a blast, and that's the bread-and-butter of the league. In order for MLS quality to grow (ie. larger contracts), they're eventually going to need more television eyeballs and larger media contracts. That's an uphill battle when you're competing with the Euro leagues, which are being televised increasingly here in the U.S.

In terms of U.S. soccer, it was a perfect storm and ironically may have been the fault of MLS. US Soccer has had crappy leadership and no coherent strategy for quite some time. Meanwhile, MLS has become a great option for many CONCACAF players and it's arguably made countries like Honduras, Canada, Panama, and Jamaica stronger (joining Costa Rica and Mexico, who've been successful for a while).

(05-29-2018 08:53 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

Shirley, you are just trying to get me fired up. MLS teams play only 21 home games! Demand should be much higher considering the limited supply. I'll bet you a hot fudge sundae there is a significant MLS contraction in less than five years. To make matters worse, tv ratings are almost zero! Lastly, if the City of Cincinnati supports it, it must be a dud.

I don't think average fans know how much MLS tickets cost. And like someone else said, it is not a great product compared to the other professional sports.

I am not a soccer hater - both my kids are very proficient at it. The league strikes me as a classic ponzi scheme.

(05-29-2018 08:53 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

Shirley, you are just trying to get me fired up. MLS teams play only 21 home games! Demand should be much higher considering the limited supply. I'll bet you a hot fudge sundae there is a significant MLS contraction in less than five years. To make matters worse, tv ratings are almost zero! Lastly, if the City of Cincinnati supports it, it must be a dud.

I don't think average fans know how much MLS tickets cost. And like someone else said, it is not a great product compared to the other professional sports.

I am not a soccer hater - both my kids are very proficient at it. The league strikes me as a classic ponzi scheme.

(05-29-2018 08:53 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

Shirley, you are just trying to get me fired up. MLS teams play only 21 home games! Demand should be much higher considering the limited supply. I'll bet you a hot fudge sundae there is a significant MLS contraction in less than five years. To make matters worse, tv ratings are almost zero! Lastly, if the City of Cincinnati supports it, it must be a dud.

I don't think average fans know how much MLS tickets cost. And like someone else said, it is not a great product compared to the other professional sports.

I am not a soccer hater - both my kids are very proficient at it. The league strikes me as a classic ponzi scheme.

(05-29-2018 08:53 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 07:22 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  60% of the teams are AVERAGING fewer than 20k fans a game. Nice league.

A better investment might be in tulips for those who get that reference.

It's the third highest AVERAGE attendance behind NFL and MLB. Granted, the NBA and NHL play more games, but your argument that they are only averaging 20K fans a game is...well, bad.

Further, it's one of a few leagues that is seeing an increase in attendance year-by-year, while baseball and football are rapidly losing fans.

Shirley, you are just trying to get me fired up. MLS teams play only 21 home games! Demand should be much higher considering the limited supply. I'll bet you a hot fudge sundae there is a significant MLS contraction in less than five years. To make matters worse, tv ratings are almost zero! Lastly, if the City of Cincinnati supports it, it must be a dud.

I don't think average fans know how much MLS tickets cost. And like someone else said, it is not a great product compared to the other professional sports.

I am not a soccer hater - both my kids are very proficient at it. The league strikes me as a classic ponzi scheme.