(02-17-2017 11:26 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 01:51 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 01:50 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  So?
Either way, photo ID should required to vote. You need a photo ID for everything else.

this is actually an incorrect assertion. but it doesn't stop the GOPers from repeating it.

What's incorrect about it? You need an ID to work at anything other than an 'under the table' job. You need an ID to open a bank account or cash a check without paying a ridiculous fee. You need an ID for much travel. You need an ID to buy beer or watch some movies. You need an ID to get loans to buy a car or house. Most decent places require an ID to rent an apartment, and those that don't take advantage of you as a result. You need an ID for most assistance.

Exactly. Democrats care about the poor on election day. They care that they show up and vote democrat. The rest of the year, they couldn't care less about them.

Quote:Honestly, I don't see how keeping minorities from having/wanting/getting ID is anything more than an attempt to keep them in low wage jobs and bad neighborhoods working for people who can rip them off.... and if you have an ID anything like a 'state id', you don't need to then ALSO register to vote. Puts all of those 'voter registration' groups out of work... so now they can help get these people IDs.

One more manifestation of, "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you keep them voting democrat."

The biggest threat to the democrats is an upwardly mobile lower class, because there goes their reliable voting base.

so do you deny/refuse to acknowledge the clear cut evidence that these voter ID laws do impact turnout?

The biggest threat to the democrats is an upwardly mobile lower class


uhhhh no. Categorically false. Do you have any facts to link to this. Any citations. That's an opinion certainly not a fact.

(02-16-2017 02:22 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Great find Kronke. It shows that these snowflake Liberals who are claiming that voter ID is racist?...are in fact exhibiting racism in that belief. It was clear that these black people were offended at the idea that anyone would assert that they could not figure out how to obtain an ID. Very enlightening.

Quote:What's incorrect about it? You need an ID to work at anything other than an 'under the table' job. You need an ID to open a bank account or cash a check without paying a ridiculous fee. You need an ID for much travel. You need an ID to buy beer or watch some movies. You need an ID to get loans to buy a car or house. Most decent places require an ID to rent an apartment, and those that don't take advantage of you as a result. You need an ID for most assistance.

You need an ID to participate fully in the 'American Dream' and not get ripped off by people/companies who take advantage of you.... most often the people who can least afford it.

FFS I already stated my point to this previously in the thread.

Quote:Don't remember, but if so, it only proves that this isn't a right wing partisan issue. It's also true that most 'anti-government' groups and religious cults (most likely to not want IDs) lean right.... and white.

Honestly, I don't see how keeping minorities from having/wanting/getting ID is anything more than an attempt to keep them in low wage jobs and bad neighborhoods working for people who can rip them off.... and if you have an ID anything like a 'state id', you don't need to then ALSO register to vote. Puts all of those 'voter registration' groups out of work... so now they can help get these people IDs.

well she a republican. also her type of voter fraud was non-citizen voting. not voter impersonation. a voter ID would not have prevented this specific case.

(02-17-2017 12:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 02:22 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Great find Kronke. It shows that these snowflake Liberals who are claiming that voter ID is racist?...are in fact exhibiting racism in that belief. It was clear that these black people were offended at the idea that anyone would assert that they could not figure out how to obtain an ID. Very enlightening.

i didn't figure you as the kind who would fall for the YouTube bs.

just get a damn ID.

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(02-16-2017 08:49 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:02 PM)gdunn Wrote:  I did. It was because of budget cuts. You cut the things that don't generate revenue.

That is the most pathetic response ever

Translation: I don't have a response so I'm going to throw an insult that won't tempt the mods to do anything to me cause I'm a brown noser.

no it's because you made two massive logical fallacies.

(02-17-2017 12:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The biggest threat to the democrats is an upwardly mobile lower class
uhhhh no. Categorically false. Do you have any facts to link to this. Any citations. That's an opinion certainly not a fact.

I think it's pretty clear that as people move up the economic ladder, they tend more toward voting republican. If you need a link for that, this is going to be a very long and tedious conversation.

If you accept that, then it's pretty hard to argue against my point, be it fact or opinion or whatever.

(02-17-2017 12:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The biggest threat to the democrats is an upwardly mobile lower class
uhhhh no. Categorically false. Do you have any facts to link to this. Any citations. That's an opinion certainly not a fact.

I think it's pretty clear that as people move up the economic ladder, they tend more toward voting republican. If you need a link for that, this is going to be a very long and tedious conversation.

If you accept that, then it's pretty hard to argue against my point, be it fact or opinion or whatever.

I don't care if they vote GOP. I just want them to vote.

I was just looking over charts and it's not what you think. The bigger correlation is education level. The more degrees you obtain the more likely it is you will vote D. Salaries are correlated to education NO? Think about it. What you think is just not so.

aren't NY, CA, CT, DC, all really wealthy yet get dem?

(02-17-2017 12:31 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 08:49 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:02 PM)gdunn Wrote:  I did. It was because of budget cuts. You cut the things that don't generate revenue.

That is the most pathetic response ever

Translation: I don't have a response so I'm going to throw an insult that won't tempt the mods to do anything to me cause I'm a brown noser.

no it's because you made two massive logical fallacies.

Wrong again John. You can't win. You say they closed down DMVs. It was because of budget cuts. You have no response because you're a one trick pony. You're over your head and can't win.

(02-17-2017 12:46 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:31 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 08:49 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:02 PM)gdunn Wrote:  I did. It was because of budget cuts. You cut the things that don't generate revenue.

That is the most pathetic response ever

Translation: I don't have a response so I'm going to throw an insult that won't tempt the mods to do anything to me cause I'm a brown noser.

no it's because you made two massive logical fallacies.

Wrong again John. You can't win. You say they closed down DMVs. It was because of budget cuts. You have no response because you're a one trick pony. You're over your head and can't win.

1. you really are going to say every word that is uttered from a politicans mouth is truthful and they don't misrepresent their reasoning for certain decisions?

2. you really want to say the right to vote should be dependent on budget cuts?

if you tie voting access to the DMV you sure as s*** can no longer say budgeting is an excuse for shutting down DMVs.

(02-17-2017 12:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:46 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:31 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 08:49 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  That is the most pathetic response ever

Translation: I don't have a response so I'm going to throw an insult that won't tempt the mods to do anything to me cause I'm a brown noser.

no it's because you made two massive logical fallacies.

Wrong again John. You can't win. You say they closed down DMVs. It was because of budget cuts. You have no response because you're a one trick pony. You're over your head and can't win.

1. you really are going to say every word that is uttered from a politicans mouth is truthful and they don't misrepresent their reasoning for certain decisions?

2. you really want to say the right to vote should be dependent on budget cuts?

if you tie voting access to the DMV you sure as s*** can no longer say budgeting is an excuse for shutting down DMVs.

DMVs don't equal voting.

All the sites I came across that screamed racism was Prog left sites. I then read the local news. 31% were shut down. Most were in predominantly black counties but the fact is they weren't generating revenue. They were losing money. To save money they were shut down. There are other ways to get IDs just not a DMV.

(02-17-2017 01:28 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:46 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:31 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 08:49 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Translation: I don't have a response so I'm going to throw an insult that won't tempt the mods to do anything to me cause I'm a brown noser.

no it's because you made two massive logical fallacies.

Wrong again John. You can't win. You say they closed down DMVs. It was because of budget cuts. You have no response because you're a one trick pony. You're over your head and can't win.

1. you really are going to say every word that is uttered from a politicans mouth is truthful and they don't misrepresent their reasoning for certain decisions?

2. you really want to say the right to vote should be dependent on budget cuts?

if you tie voting access to the DMV you sure as s*** can no longer say budgeting is an excuse for shutting down DMVs.

DMVs don't equal voting.

All the sites I came across that screamed racism was Prog left sites. I then read the local news. 31% were shut down. Most were in predominantly black counties but the fact is they weren't generating revenue. They were losing money. To save money they were shut down. There are other ways to get IDs just not a DMV.

they do when you enact a strict ID law for voting.

(02-17-2017 12:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 02:22 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Great find Kronke. It shows that these snowflake Liberals who are claiming that voter ID is racist?...are in fact exhibiting racism in that belief. It was clear that these black people were offended at the idea that anyone would assert that they could not figure out how to obtain an ID. Very enlightening.

i didn't figure you as the kind who would fall for the YouTube bs.

What would that be? He went to Berkeley and then to Harlem and asked questions? You have a problem with the answers given?

(02-17-2017 01:35 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 02:22 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Great find Kronke. It shows that these snowflake Liberals who are claiming that voter ID is racist?...are in fact exhibiting racism in that belief. It was clear that these black people were offended at the idea that anyone would assert that they could not figure out how to obtain an ID. Very enlightening.

i didn't figure you as the kind who would fall for the YouTube bs.

What would that be? He went to Berkeley and then to Harlem and asked questions? You have a problem with the answers given?

I have a problem with these partisan youtubers who have literally no checks against misleading, bias, or flatout forgery

even Daily caller, redstate, mrconservative, have some checks.

(02-17-2017 01:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 01:35 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 12:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 02:22 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Great find Kronke. It shows that these snowflake Liberals who are claiming that voter ID is racist?...are in fact exhibiting racism in that belief. It was clear that these black people were offended at the idea that anyone would assert that they could not figure out how to obtain an ID. Very enlightening.

i didn't figure you as the kind who would fall for the YouTube bs.

What would that be? He went to Berkeley and then to Harlem and asked questions? You have a problem with the answers given?

I have a problem with these partisan youtubers who have literally no checks against misleading, bias, or flatout forgery

even Daily caller, redstate, mrconservative, have some checks.

Fair enough. What about the answers though? Are you saying these people are not being forthright in their answers?

(02-17-2017 12:24 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

Quote:What's incorrect about it? You need an ID to work at anything other than an 'under the table' job. You need an ID to open a bank account or cash a check without paying a ridiculous fee. You need an ID for much travel. You need an ID to buy beer or watch some movies. You need an ID to get loans to buy a car or house. Most decent places require an ID to rent an apartment, and those that don't take advantage of you as a result. You need an ID for most assistance.

You need an ID to participate fully in the 'American Dream' and not get ripped off by people/companies who take advantage of you.... most often the people who can least afford it.

FFS I already stated my point to this previously in the thread.

I didn't say or imply that you didn't... I merely asked you what was 'wrong' with what he said. All that means is that you're either being pedantic or obtuse. Either way, it's not a good look

Quote:

Quote:Don't remember, but if so, it only proves that this isn't a right wing partisan issue. It's also true that most 'anti-government' groups and religious cults (most likely to not want IDs) lean right.... and white.

Honestly, I don't see how keeping minorities from having/wanting/getting ID is anything more than an attempt to keep them in low wage jobs and bad neighborhoods working for people who can rip them off.... and if you have an ID anything like a 'state id', you don't need to then ALSO register to vote. Puts all of those 'voter registration' groups out of work... so now they can help get these people IDs.

well she a republican. also her type of voter fraud was non-citizen voting. not voter impersonation. a voter ID would not have prevented this specific case.

I don't care if she was a Republican or not. Only you seem to.

The fact is that there already IS a state managed database for IDs and Drivers licenses that is readily available online for those who need access... like Police... That database could EASILY be augmented to include voter eligibility just as it contains endorsements and restrictions and 'organ donor' status without any action required on the part of the citizenry. Scrub the ID list against the existing 'voter registration' list... and going forward, all new IDs for eligible voters are automatically registered. It's actually very simple.

and in that event, non-citizen voting actually WOULD be caught contrary to your opinion... Surely you're not arguing that citizenship is implied by a state ID or can't be differentiated? That's not what the left has argued in California.



Not addressed to John

Can any of you others explain this?
'Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, 553 U.S. 181 (2008), is a United States Supreme Court case holding that an Indiana law requiring voters to provide photo IDs did not violate the Constitution of the United States. At trial, the plaintiffs were unable to produce any witnesses who claimed they were not able to meet the law's requirements'

All the left ever produces is studies that IMPLY that racism is a motivating factor or result, but they rarely are able to present any of these supposedly thousands or even millions of people who are somehow systemically disenfranchised. When the left can start showing actual people disenfranchised by these laws, they will start to have some validity. Too often, the best they are able to show is a small number of people who COULD have complied if they had some relatively simple and low cost assistance.... or people are only 'technically' disenfranchised, as in their Birth Certificate says John Smith but their former state ID says Jane Smith or Jonathan Smith... which means that they CAN vote as John Smith in their new state, or as Jane or Jonathan in their old... but they can't vote as 'Jane' in their new one or John in their old. They CAN still vote, however... and they have 2 more years to solve their issues.