(02-11-2017 09:59 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Yeah.......

They've settled on Natural Selection..............

Next

I don't think even fundamentalists would argue that changes in environment can't alter the gene pool of an isolated species.

The questions about how the first living cells arose, how cellular respiration and photosynthesis came about, how single-celled organisms turned into multicellular ones, how sexual reproduction arose, and how each species acquired a characteristic number of chromosomes (which is largely what makes interbreeding between species impossible).

Natural selection alone cannot do those things. It alters the frequency of alleles in a population, but does not add any new alleles or genes to a population.

It's important to distinguish between things that are observable and things that are not.

Endosymbiosis........


And yes survival of the fittest and endless tracts of time can explain all of those.....

if WV wants to have it let them have it. It is their decision to make.

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(02-10-2017 04:04 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What if it was an Islamic class? Not required but we will have a Koran class. What say you?

I would have no problem with it as long as it isn't required.

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(02-10-2017 04:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The key thing that people are missing is this:

Quote:The voluntary program is paid for through private donations and administered by the school district.

Nobody is forcing anybody to take the class against their will.

Well then. That SHOULD change everything. Voluntary + Privately funded.

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(02-11-2017 11:36 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  if WV wants to have it let them have it. It is their decision to make.

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As long as they are willing to forfeit federal funding for education? Have at it.

(02-11-2017 11:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:36 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  if WV wants to have it let them have it. It is their decision to make.

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As long as they are willing to forfeit federal funding for education? Have at it.

there shouldn't be federal funding for education but that's another thread.

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(02-11-2017 11:47 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:36 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  if WV wants to have it let them have it. It is their decision to make.

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As long as they are willing to forfeit federal funding for education? Have at it.

there shouldn't be federal funding for education but that's another thread.

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No argument from me.

(02-11-2017 11:31 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  And yes survival of the fittest and endless tracts of time can explain all of those.....

No they can in fact cannot. How certain traits came about and why they survived are two different things.

(02-10-2017 03:45 PM)miko33 Wrote:  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-to-e...rch-state/

Quote:Some parents in West Virginia are fighting to put an end to a Bible class in public schools.

For nearly 80 years, Bible stories have been taught in Mercer County as part of the regular school week and they’re extremely popular in the community. In a new lawsuit, however, a major lobby for the separation of church and state is arguing that “popular” is not the same as “legal,” reports CBS News correspondent Tony Dokoupil.

I'm very, very unreligious, but the Bible is the cornerstone of much of western literature/culture. As such, key stories should absolutely, 100% be covered.

If it's optional and paid for with private funds, then it should be legal, as long as they don't deny any other privately paid for voluntary religious (or even non-religious) classes.

(02-11-2017 01:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-10-2017 03:45 PM)miko33 Wrote:  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-to-e...rch-state/

Quote:Some parents in West Virginia are fighting to put an end to a Bible class in public schools.

For nearly 80 years, Bible stories have been taught in Mercer County as part of the regular school week and they’re extremely popular in the community. In a new lawsuit, however, a major lobby for the separation of church and state is arguing that “popular” is not the same as “legal,” reports CBS News correspondent Tony Dokoupil.

I'm very, very unreligious, but the Bible is the cornerstone of much of western literature/culture. As such, key stories should absolutely, 100% be covered.

They should be covered - I agree. But in a class that is looking at the bible as literature or as a source to explore cultures of the ME thousands of years ago or even for its impact on the rise of Europe in a historical approach. Not as a theological treatise that should be followed. There are other venues for that - not at a public school.

(02-11-2017 12:17 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:31 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  And yes survival of the fittest and endless tracts of time can explain all of those.....

No they can in fact cannot. How certain traits came about and why they survived are two different things.

Some of those questions can be answered within the framework of evolution and genetics. However, origins are not in the wheelhouse of evolution nor should it be. There are a number of abiogenesis theories for that.

(02-13-2017 09:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 01:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-10-2017 03:45 PM)miko33 Wrote:  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-to-e...rch-state/

Quote:Some parents in West Virginia are fighting to put an end to a Bible class in public schools.

For nearly 80 years, Bible stories have been taught in Mercer County as part of the regular school week and they’re extremely popular in the community. In a new lawsuit, however, a major lobby for the separation of church and state is arguing that “popular” is not the same as “legal,” reports CBS News correspondent Tony Dokoupil.

I'm very, very unreligious, but the Bible is the cornerstone of much of western literature/culture. As such, key stories should absolutely, 100% be covered.

They should be covered - I agree. But in a class that is looking at the bible as literature or as a source to explore cultures of the ME thousands of years ago or even for its impact on the rise of Europe in a historical approach. Not as a theological treatise that should be followed. There are other venues for that - not at a public school.

So you be ok with a high school class going through the bible, and only the bible, and the literature inside of it from a historical and cultural perspective

(02-11-2017 01:21 PM)Chappy Wrote:  If it's optional and paid for with private funds, then it should be legal, as long as they don't deny any other privately paid for voluntary religious (or even non-religious) classes.

Exactly.

Its the atheists trying to force their beliefs and practices on others.

(02-10-2017 04:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The key thing that people are missing is this:

Quote:The voluntary program is paid for through private donations and administered by the school district.

Nobody is forcing anybody to take the class against their will.

We're talking about elementary school kids here. These are highly impressionable age groups for the most part. Does every kindergartner even understand the concept of voluntary?

A quick google search of other articles shows this is a voluntary course offered to middle school students as well - I have zero issue with that, as I think that's a far more appropriate age for students to be making decisions about their own education.

If a board of education wants to teach these classes they should.

If you don't like it vote in a new set of Board members.

It runs contrary to democracy and the rule of the people to say that just because something is, or hints at being, religious it should be done away with.

That said, it shouldn't be mandatory. That would run too close to the state establishing a religion. Offering them would not.

(02-13-2017 03:38 PM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  

(02-10-2017 04:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The key thing that people are missing is this:

Quote:The voluntary program is paid for through private donations and administered by the school district.

Nobody is forcing anybody to take the class against their will.

We're talking about elementary school kids here. These are highly impressionable age groups for the most part. Does every kindergartner even understand the concept of voluntary?

A quick google search of other articles shows this is a voluntary course offered to middle school students as well - I have zero issue with that, as I think that's a far more appropriate age for students to be making decisions about their own education.

I would imagine that this is no different than any other voluntary program at school and the people making the decision if their minor child attends are the parents so the age of the child has absolutely nothing to do with it.

(02-10-2017 03:49 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  So they are forcing kids to take bible classes?

I would also argue that they should stop teaching evolution to kids in public schools, because evolution is a religion to some people.

Pretty much if they're running kids out of school because they don't go to the Bible class.

This class is pretty much required.