(08-09-2016 11:19 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:13 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:06 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The LGBT groups here have every right to protest BYU, but I have turned very against them thanks to their lack of respect of others.

They are an extremely vindictive group. NC, HB2... ok, I can understand but Big 12 expansion isnt any of their damned business.

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Tom will say people have freedom to believe what they want but there are consequences. Yet he would force them to participate in a gay wedding or not be allowed to have a living. He would force them to follow the rules he prefers or would keep them from participating in the NCAA. What if gays could do what they want, but not participate in the biggest sports leagues, only in minor leagues? Or they could do what they want, but not work in any major companies? Or not be a doctor or lawyer?

First of all, I'd argue that the NFL has a defacto ban on Gay players. One supported at the highest levels by venerated NFL insiders like Tony Dungy and by the political donations of the Houston Texans owner (who gave thousands of dollars to retain his right to discriminate against LGBT players).

If their religious beliefs require them to discriminate against persons in non-theological employment or in athletic participation, then there's a big problem.

Especially if there is a monopoly on good jobs and high profile athletic spots (the P5, FBS, etc.). Taking more of those good jobs and allowing Gays or non-Christians to be excluded from those jobs is to make it harder for LGBT persons to be employed in those fields.

Evangelicals are covered in employment protections. LGBT persons are not. Schools are actively asking for (and receiving) licenses to discriminate (Title IX waivers).

(08-09-2016 10:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Jews

Jewish people work at and attending Liberty? Messianic Judaism? Christian faith centers around a Jew, Jesus.

(08-09-2016 12:19 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Jews

Jewish people work at and attending Liberty? Messianic Judaism? Christian faith centers around a Jew, Jesus.

I'm not aware of any Jewish employee at Liberty. They have a Jewish studies department apparently filled with evangelical Christians. Please let me know of the LU employees that do not believe that Jesus is the messiah or who reject the New Testament.

If you are a Jew, who professes a Jewish religious tradition commonly accepted by Jewish persons to be Jewish, then per my reading of the employee handbook, you cannot be employed by Liberty. Except in one program where they wouldn't let LU have accreditation unless they allowed for it. And that program is not the Athletic Department.

Judaism does not recognize Jesus as the messiah. Nor do they recognize any of the New Testament. There are groups, such as the "Jews for Jesus" that are evangelical Christians that place some emphasis on Talmudic law and the Torah, but they are not considered Jewish in any mainstream way. Judaism isn't anti-Christian, but it isn't Christian.

We went through this at length when LU was attempting to campaign for membership in the Sun Belt. The largest donor to any Sun Belt school as well as the winningest basketball coach in the history of the league would be barred from employment at LU under the current guidelines. You are free to show me in the Liberty Way or the employee handbook where Jews (or Athiests, or Hindus, etc.) who do not profess Jesus as the messiah can be employed there.

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BYU does have non-Mormons and even a Jewish person or two working for them. Although the numbers are ridiculously stacked (I think its something like 97%+ Mormon). Gays who are married cannot be employed there. Neither can they be athletes or students at BYU.

Both LU and BYU are discriminatory against Gays and LU has a stated ban on non-Christians.

(08-09-2016 10:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:06 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Count me in the group now rooting for BYU. I have generally sympathized with the LGBT community, but also can't stand it because too leaders/publishers have so little respect for others to have the right to disagree. If you want a good job, opposition to gay marriage shouldn't hurt your chances (we lost a Firefox CEO/CFO/something almost immediately because of an outcry). If your religion has a view they don't like, those affiliated with the denomination shouldn't be made to feel like 2nd class citizens.

The LGBT groups here have every right to protest BYU, but I have turned very against them thanks to their lack of respect of others.

How would you feel if there was a situation where there were only a few jobs in a field and those jobs were expanded, but only to non-Christians?

Can't speak for him but I'd probably look for work in another field. If somebody doesn't want a Christian working for them the chances are pretty high that I don't want to work for them either.

(08-09-2016 12:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 12:19 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Jews

Jewish people work at and attending Liberty? Messianic Judaism? Christian faith centers around a Jew, Jesus.

Both LU and BYU are discriminatory against Gays and LU has a stated ban on non-Christians.

But to many here they would welcome BYU with open arms into their conference, this includes the SBC. The only real difference between BYU and LU besides the difference in religion is BYU is already FBS has a great history and can make a conference money.

Some Mormons still practice more than 1 wife.

(08-09-2016 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some Mormons still practice more than 1 wife.

While I remain highly critical of BYU's discriminatory employment, admissions, and athletic participation policies...

Any implication that BYU is somehow supportive of polygamy is incorrect. Hasn't been true in a very long time.

Advocate for polygamy at BYU and you'll probably get turfed out rather quickly.

(08-09-2016 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some Mormons still practice more than 1 wife.

Rut ro....

(08-09-2016 05:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some Mormons still practice more than 1 wife.

While I remain highly critical of BYU's discriminatory employment, admissions, and athletic participation policies...

Any implication that BYU is somehow supportive of polygamy is incorrect. Hasn't been true in a very long time.

Advocate for polygamy at BYU and you'll probably get turfed out rather quickly.

You have not heard about Warren Jeffs? He would think that BYU went left, and lost their way for not preaching polygamy.

(08-09-2016 10:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 04:13 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 09:57 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 08:55 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Those that espouse tolerance are usually the least tolerant. Every group has some watchdog element just waiting to scream prejudice or bigotry at anything that don't agree with except Christians.

"Christian Lives Matter" folks.

"We're here, get use to it"

CJ

Christians are the most persecuted people in the world.

Amen!

How many schools have stated policies banning evangelicals from employment in non-theological (which all athletic jobs are) and in admissions, retention? ZERO.

How many schools have policies against Gays (and or Jews)? Liberty, Baylor, BYU, Samford, U of Mobile, Mississippi Coll., HBU, DBU, Abilene Christian, Biola, Grove City, Berry, ..... (and at least 100 more).

When evangelicals are fired, they can seek redress from the courts. When Gays are fired, no recourse in many places.

At some point, the NCAA needs to say "no discrimination, period" and "no Title IX waivers applying to athletic department jobs or to students participating in athletics".

We are talking about persecution like being burned alive and having the Bible banned in many countries. Christians are butchered in the Middle East by the thousands and yet we focus on fleeting male refugees.

But if we want to talk persecution in America:

Christianity is constantly attacked at colleges. I have seen it first hand.

Public opinion is staunchly behind the LGBT movement. Christianity is attacked in the press, media, entertainment etc.

Christians are stereotyped as ignorant and science hating.

Atheist groups want crosses along the highway to taken down.

We are told to keep our religious views out of our
decisions.

Christianity was somehow blamed for the Orlando nightclub shooting.

I could go on and on.

(08-10-2016 03:06 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 05:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some Mormons still practice more than 1 wife.

While I remain highly critical of BYU's discriminatory employment, admissions, and athletic participation policies...

Any implication that BYU is somehow supportive of polygamy is incorrect. Hasn't been true in a very long time.

Advocate for polygamy at BYU and you'll probably get turfed out rather quickly.

You have not heard about Warren Jeffs? He would think that BYU went left, and lost their way for not preaching polygamy.

David,

Warren Jeffs is not supported by ANYONE in the Church Office Building or at BYU. I promise you that.