Rest my case. B12 doesn't need another BU/ private.

(08-08-2016 07:56 PM)Kronke Wrote:  What is a "championship brand"?

If we're discussing flagship schools of states in New England that have smaller populations than the Houston metro, mediocre football, good basketball, and better academics, perhaps you could conduct a feasibility survey on UConn vs. UMass, and post your findings for us.

Massachusetts population is larger than the Houston Metro area, but not by much.
Very surprised how big it is, but then, every thing in Texas is bigger.

Metro Houston: 6,622,047
Massachusetts: 6,794,422

(08-08-2016 07:58 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:45 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:41 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:36 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:35 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  If anything this may open up the door for UConn as I don't buy that BOTH of the schools they add (if they only add two) would be city schools. Cincy/UH together is weak from a brand perspective. At this point, I think they will complete the eastern trio with UConn and Cincy.

And I take it you think UConn would be better?
[/quote

State flagship, better academics, championship brand (granted only 1 BE title in football).

A state farther away than anyone else up for consideration in region not know for their huge CFB following. Championship brand in basketball, not football. UH and UC bring more fans and more Fb credibility and wouldn't be another Kansas. I say Rice is Tulane 2.0 and looking at this situation it's clear UConn is Kansas 2.0.

Geography isn't one of the criteria. What fans does UH have? UConn has an odd history of improving in sports the better the conference the school is in. 99 percent of schools are the opposite.

That is completely pulled from your butt. The year they went to the BCS was the low water mark of the BE FB conference. It also took them 10 years to make the NCAA's in the BE, their first tournament as a member was in the 89/90 season.

UConn had a losing record as a FCS school and as a non-power school. As a power school, they had a winning record in football. In basketball, UConn was best in the BE, and hasn't been as good in the AAC, and weren't very good prior to joining the BE. So my point stands.

(08-08-2016 07:25 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The BYU Honor Code also applies to heterosexual couples. Assuming you have premarital relations to someone of the opposite sex, regardless of the athletic team you compete on and/or have a scholarship for, you will be kicked off the team. This is not biased towards the LGBT-community.

Basically, the argument is "Don't let BYU in because of the discrimination from their religious beliefs." They themselves are discriminating against BYU for their religious beliefs. Irony at its finest.

Intolerance of the intolerant.

Not exactly. If I understand the honor code correctly they dont allow sex before marriage.

What is Notre Dame, TCU and Baylors stance on homosexuality?

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In 2011, Brandon Davies, then the star player of the BYU Basketball team, was dismissed from a top-10 ranked team for violating the Honor Code by having premarital relations with his girlfriend. Before that, in 2010, Harvey Unga - then the starting running back of the BYU Football team - was dismissed from the football team (along with his girlfriend who was on the basketball team) for violating the Honor Code by having premarital relations.

BYU has a strict Honor Code. It was not just created out of thin air - they were/are based and rooted in the commandments. Rules are rules. It sends a very clear message about the values that they support and live by for all of their students and faculty.

Bottom line: the Big 12 doesn't need to invite BYU, and BYU doesn't need to change its beliefs in order to conform to other schools. The notion that a group could politically pressure an organization into discriminating against another group becomes it doesn't align with their beliefs goes against is absurd.

BYU is a good program. The Big 12 overlooking them is another example of a backwards organization.

(08-08-2016 08:55 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Those that espouse tolerance are usually the least tolerant. Every group has some watchdog element just waiting to scream prejudice or bigotry at anything that don't agree with except Christians.

"Christian Lives Matter" folks.

"We're here, get use to it"

CJ

Christians are the most persecuted people in the world.

(08-08-2016 07:47 PM)Shox Wrote:  The irony should be fantastic for tominlazybrook and other Liberty haters since they have always given BYU a free pass because "they are more established," or "help turn a profit." Standing by....

I was thinking something very similar. This convo about BYU even in the spin room is no where near the hatred level LU gets. And most people have never seen the LU campus or have been to a game and I would bet have never seen LU play in some cases.

How come no one in the Big 12 is talking about Baylor's stance on LGBT? I believe they don't accept same-sex relationships on the Baylor campus. If BYU shouldn't get an invite, then shouldn't they kick Baylor out of the Big 12 for the same reasons?

(08-08-2016 07:47 PM)Shox Wrote:  The irony should be fantastic for tominlazybrook and other Liberty haters since they have always given BYU a free pass because "they are more established," or "help turn a profit." Standing by....

Where have I given BYU a pass on anything?

(08-08-2016 10:15 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  How come no one in the Big 12 is talking about Baylor's stance on LGBT? I believe they don't accept same-sex relationships on the Baylor campus. If BYU shouldn't get an invite, then shouldn't they kick Baylor out of the Big 12 for the same reasons?

Baylor's polices are as bad, although they aren't enforced as rigorously than at BYU. Its no excuse for Baylor.

Baylor got into the Big XII at a time when discrimination against LGBT persons was considered acceptable. If the Big XII falls apart, they will not end up in a P5 conference.

I would love for Baylor to get tossed over their exclusion against LGBT persons for coaching jobs.

BYU doesn't allow LGBT persons to even participate as athletes.

There will come a time when we start pressuring the NCAA to eject discriminatory institutions. That's probably about 10 years down the road. But it's coming.

---

Here's a basic primer to selected 'religious' schools.

1) Notre Dame - no discrimination for students. No stated discrimination in employment. Active support of LGBT athletes as a public and official policy of the school. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca9bUC7jqAs

2) TCU - No discrimination period. Openly gay AD employees.

3) Baylor - Discrimination in employment. Stated policies allowing for discrimination against students and athletes. No recent enforcement.

4) BYU - Discrimination across the board. Enforced policies.

5) Liberty - Discrimination across the board.

(08-08-2016 09:57 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 08:55 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Those that espouse tolerance are usually the least tolerant. Every group has some watchdog element just waiting to scream prejudice or bigotry at anything that don't agree with except Christians.

"Christian Lives Matter" folks.

"We're here, get use to it"

CJ

Christians are the most persecuted people in the world.

Amen!

If many turn the other cheek and look away when Muslims claim to be a religion of peace and yet massacre millions of people because of a simple rule that You can Kill all nonbelievers in the name of Allah, then a simple standing of a belief that Gay lifestyle is wrong should never stand in the way a private religious school being allowed to play sports in the Big 12 conference or any other one.

I think the timing of this by those protesting BYU's membership couldn't be more perfect. If it is true that Cincinnati and Houston are being championed by OU and Texas, respectively, any school president feeling like they might have to choose between those two can now say "**** it," let's just take both and be done with it.

The Big 12 is stupid if they don't come to FL.

Count me in the group now rooting for BYU. I have generally sympathized with the LGBT community, but also can't stand it because too leaders/publishers have so little respect for others to have the right to disagree. If you want a good job, opposition to gay marriage shouldn't hurt your chances (we lost a Firefox CEO/CFO/something almost immediately because of an outcry). If your religion has a view they don't like, those affiliated with the denomination shouldn't be made to feel like 2nd class citizens.

The LGBT groups here have every right to protest BYU, but I have turned very against them thanks to their lack of respect of others.

(08-09-2016 10:06 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The LGBT groups here have every right to protest BYU, but I have turned very against them thanks to their lack of respect of others.

They are an extremely vindictive group. NC, HB2... ok, I can understand but Big 12 expansion isnt any of their damned business.

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(08-09-2016 10:06 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Count me in the group now rooting for BYU. I have generally sympathized with the LGBT community, but also can't stand it because too leaders/publishers have so little respect for others to have the right to disagree. If you want a good job, opposition to gay marriage shouldn't hurt your chances (we lost a Firefox CEO/CFO/something almost immediately because of an outcry). If your religion has a view they don't like, those affiliated with the denomination shouldn't be made to feel like 2nd class citizens.

The LGBT groups here have every right to protest BYU, but I have turned very against them thanks to their lack of respect of others.

How would you feel if there was a situation where there were only a few jobs in a field and those jobs were expanded, but only to non-Christians?

Just for reference, there is not one single athletic program in the entire NCAA that discriminates against evangelicals. Not one. But somehow its 'okay' to discriminate against non-Christians and Gay persons? No thanks.

----

If you feel that Gays (or in Liberty's case - Jews too) are too filthy and disgusting to work in non-theological jobs or to participate as athletes then the NCAA has every right to say "We reserve membership to institutions that don't discriminate". And I think they should say that.

Look, if those schools don't want Gays (or Jews, or Athiests) working for them or participating in athletics, then why should they play with them in athletics? Let them join the NCCAA (the Natl Christian Coll. Athl. Assn.) with Bob Jones and other likeminded institutions.

---

Ensuring access to athletic jobs and participation without discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, marital status, or religion will not turn BYU or Baylor or Liberty into some sort of Berkeley. TCU and ND don't discriminate and no one thinks they're some liberal bastion.

Even Grand Canyon, Inc. dropped their discriminatory policies.

(08-09-2016 04:13 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 09:57 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 08:55 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Those that espouse tolerance are usually the least tolerant. Every group has some watchdog element just waiting to scream prejudice or bigotry at anything that don't agree with except Christians.

"Christian Lives Matter" folks.

"We're here, get use to it"

CJ

Christians are the most persecuted people in the world.

Amen!

How many schools have stated policies banning evangelicals from employment in non-theological (which all athletic jobs are) and in admissions, retention? ZERO.

How many schools have policies against Gays (and or Jews)? Liberty, Baylor, BYU, Samford, U of Mobile, Mississippi Coll., HBU, DBU, Abilene Christian, Biola, Grove City, Berry, ..... (and at least 100 more).

When evangelicals are fired, they can seek redress from the courts. When Gays are fired, no recourse in many places.

At some point, the NCAA needs to say "no discrimination, period" and "no Title IX waivers applying to athletic department jobs or to students participating in athletics".

(08-09-2016 10:13 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:06 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The LGBT groups here have every right to protest BYU, but I have turned very against them thanks to their lack of respect of others.

They are an extremely vindictive group. NC, HB2... ok, I can understand but Big 12 expansion isnt any of their damned business.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

Tom will say people have freedom to believe what they want but there are consequences. Yet he would force them to participate in a gay wedding or not be allowed to have a living. He would force them to follow the rules he prefers or would keep them from participating in the NCAA. What if gays could do what they want, but not participate in the biggest sports leagues, only in minor leagues? Or they could do what they want, but not work in any major companies? Or not be a doctor or lawyer?