Stewart Mandel
Stewart Mandel‏ @slmandel
BREAKING: National LGBT groups are urging the Big 12 to drop BYU from consideration over alleged discrimination.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...byu-080816

Let me just say this before everything gets insane:

BYU can do whatever they please when it comes to their core beliefs and religion. The Big 12 doesn't have to accept that, and it is an issue when it comes to national brand.

Seems to be the reason why BYU didn't go to the PAC 12 and Utah did. What would have happened if Cal and BYU were in the same conference? lol.

(08-08-2016 06:56 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  Stewart Mandel
Stewart Mandel‏ @slmandel
BREAKING: National LGBT groups are urging the Big 12 to drop BYU from consideration over alleged discrimination.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...byu-080816

I'm liberal, but I don't agree. Everyone knows where this private institution stands, they don't hide it. If you don't agree don't go there. Now if it was a public school thats a whole other can of worms.

I don't think it would be a big issue without all the stuff Baylor is going through. The B12 may not want the attention.

BYU also having protests going on why now with the Rape issues that they mishandled.

(08-08-2016 07:02 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 06:56 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  Stewart Mandel
Stewart Mandel‏ @slmandel
BREAKING: National LGBT groups are urging the Big 12 to drop BYU from consideration over alleged discrimination.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...byu-080816

I'm liberal, but I don't agree. Everyone knows where this private institution stands, they don't hide it. If you don't agree don't go there. Now if it was a public school thats a whole other can of worms.

Except a lot of 17-18 year old Mormon kids don't make their own decisions. After a few years at BYU they decide they don't agree with those policies and leave the church. Their transcripts are then placed on an honor code hold, and they're out a few years of their life and some tuition. Even kids who have completed their degrees and walked have had diplomas held. An honor code transcript hold at any other school is typically due to cheating/plagiarism. This is a big deal.

(08-08-2016 07:02 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 06:56 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  Stewart Mandel
Stewart Mandel‏ @slmandel
BREAKING: National LGBT groups are urging the Big 12 to drop BYU from consideration over alleged discrimination.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...byu-080816

I'm liberal, but I don't agree. Everyone knows where this private institution stands, they don't hide it. If you don't agree don't go there. Now if it was a public school thats a whole other can of worms.

Nobody is suggesting that BYU shouldn't be able to practice and enforce the standards of the religion they represent. The question is should the Big12 enter into a voluntary association with an institution that openly holds a view that has become increasing unpopular and controversial. In light of the Baylor issues, it might be a can of worms that the Big12 would rather not have to deal with right now. Or--maybe the Big12 sees a quality athletics program and decides the LDS position on LGB/Honor Code issues should not be of any more concern to them than the religious beliefs of any student currently enrolled in their own institutions.

The problem with this decision is that it essentially pits two forms of discrimination against one another. Descrimination based on religion vs discrimination based on sexual orientation. As a society, we are against both.

The BYU Honor Code also applies to heterosexual couples. Assuming you have premarital relations to someone of the opposite sex, regardless of the athletic team you compete on and/or have a scholarship for, you will be kicked off the team. This is not biased against the LGBT-community.

Basically, the argument is "Don't let BYU in because of the discrimination from their religious beliefs." They themselves are discriminating against BYU for their religious beliefs. Irony at its finest.

If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

(08-08-2016 07:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:02 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 06:56 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  Stewart Mandel
Stewart Mandel‏ @slmandel
BREAKING: National LGBT groups are urging the Big 12 to drop BYU from consideration over alleged discrimination.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...byu-080816

I'm liberal, but I don't agree. Everyone knows where this private institution stands, they don't hide it. If you don't agree don't go there. Now if it was a public school thats a whole other can of worms.

Nobody is suggesting that BYU shouldn't be able to practice and enforce the standards of the religion they represent. The question is should the Big12 enter into a voluntary association with an institution that openly holds a view that has become increasing unpopular and controversial. In light of the Baylor issues, it might be a can of worms that the Big12 would rather not have to deal with right now. Or--maybe the Big12 sees a quality athletics program and decides the LDS position on LGB/Honor Code issues should not be of any more concern to them than the religious beliefs of any student currently enrolled in their own institutions.

I agree and maybe if they are left at the alter by the Big XII they start to loosen up on their honor code BS, which I vehemently disagree with. The Big XII has every right to decide who they want to associate with and BYU has every right to be a backward @$$ bunch of loons.

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The BYU Honor Code also applies to heterosexual couples. Assuming you have premarital relations to someone of the opposite sex, regardless of the athletic team you compete on and/or have a scholarship for, you will be kicked off the team. This is not biased towards the LGBT-community.

Basically, the argument is "Don't let BYU in because of the discrimination from their religious beliefs." They themselves are discriminating against BYU for their religious beliefs. Irony at its finest.

Intolerance of the intolerant.

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

If anything this may open up the door for UConn as I don't buy that BOTH of the schools they add (if they only add two) would be city schools. Cincy/UH together is weak from a brand perspective. At this point, I think they will complete the eastern trio with UConn and Cincy.

I've been saying it from the beginning: BYU has a fine athletic program but carries a LOT of baggage. The timing couldn't be worse either with the Baylor scandal.

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

everything we've seen today leans that way.

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The BYU Honor Code also applies to heterosexual couples. Assuming you have premarital relations to someone of the opposite sex, regardless of the athletic team you compete on and/or have a scholarship for, you will be kicked off the team. This is not biased against the LGBT-community.

Basically, the argument is "Don't let BYU in because of the discrimination from their religious beliefs." They themselves are discriminating against BYU for their religious beliefs. Irony at its finest.

ummmm....

Homosexual behavior is inappropriate and violates the Honor Code. Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations between members of the same sex, but all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings.

https://policy.byu.edu/view/index.php?p=26

No, it is not irony. If BYU wants to discriminate against Gay Americans, that is their choice. However, if other Americans do not want to be associated with people that have these beliefs, that is not discriminatory.

Would you say the same thing if BYU still excluded blacks, and that was cited as a reason to reject them?

(08-08-2016 07:26 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

If anything this may open up the door for UConn as I don't buy that BOTH of the schools they add (if they only add two) would be city schools. Cincy/UH together is weak from a brand perspective. At this point, I think they will complete the eastern trio with UConn and Cincy.

And I take it you think UConn would be better?

(08-08-2016 07:35 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:26 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

If anything this may open up the door for UConn as I don't buy that BOTH of the schools they add (if they only add two) would be city schools. Cincy/UH together is weak from a brand perspective. At this point, I think they will complete the eastern trio with UConn and Cincy.

And I take it you think UConn would be better?

State flagship, better academics, championship brand (granted only 1 BE title in football).

(08-08-2016 07:36 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:35 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:26 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:20 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

If anything this may open up the door for UConn as I don't buy that BOTH of the schools they add (if they only add two) would be city schools. Cincy/UH together is weak from a brand perspective. At this point, I think they will complete the eastern trio with UConn and Cincy.

And I take it you think UConn would be better?

State flagship, better academics, championship brand (granted only 1 BE title in football).

A state farther away than anyone else up for consideration in region not know for their huge CFB following. Championship brand in basketball, not football. UH and UC bring more fans and more Fb credibility and wouldn't be another Kansas. I say Rice is Tulane 2.0 and looking at this situation it's clear UConn is Kansas 2.0.

(08-08-2016 07:06 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  I don't think it would be a big issue without all the stuff Baylor is going through. The B12 may not want the attention.

Without Baylor, none of BYU's issues would be big enough to hinder them. The only thing to stop them would simply be a strategic desire to go east. But now, the Sunday play, the LGBT, the honor code and the geography might be sufficient. Probably not, but it will be taken seriously.

(08-08-2016 07:41 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:36 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:35 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:26 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  [quote='GTFletch' pid='13455540' dateline='1470702037']
If true it sounds like Houston and Cincy are going to the BIG 12!

If anything this may open up the door for UConn as I don't buy that BOTH of the schools they add (if they only add two) would be city schools. Cincy/UH together is weak from a brand perspective. At this point, I think they will complete the eastern trio with UConn and Cincy.

And I take it you think UConn would be better?
[/quote

State flagship, better academics, championship brand (granted only 1 BE title in football).

A state farther away than anyone else up for consideration in region not know for their huge CFB following. Championship brand in basketball, not football. UH and UC bring more fans and more Fb credibility and wouldn't be another Kansas. I say Rice is Tulane 2.0 and looking at this situation it's clear UConn is Kansas 2.0.

Geography isn't one of the criteria. What fans does UH have? UConn has an odd history of improving in sports the better the conference the school is in. 99 percent of schools are the opposite.