[

Of course, it's possible. Look at Memphis or Southern Mississippi, to name just two.


q uote='Wiessman' pid='12646179' dateline='1447564763']

(11-15-2015 12:05 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  It seems to be more evident that the 2008, 2012 and 2013 teams (ok maybe 2014) were the aberrations. Where these just situations where the players united and just would not be what they had been in the past? The reality is that the 2008 team was pretty much the same set of players as the horrid 2007 team. Am I wrong on any of this?

1. The 2008 team had once-in-a-generation offensive personnel. Even during 2008, there were major signs that not all was right (for example, the events of the Army game). The defense in 2008 was putrid.
2. The 2012 team just wasn't very good. It got fortunate and closed against a bunch of bad teams; even Air Force was below par that year.
3. The 2013 team was half-decent, but again, it didn't face a strong schedule. That team did get arguably the best win of Bailiff's career (Marshall), but it also got crushed by 6-6 Mississippi State in a game it should have been motivated to play well in. And where did that team finish in Sagarin, 65+?

D1 football is a tough sport in multiple ways. Bailiff ain't up to the task, never has been, particularly at Rice. I know a lot of people like him personally, but frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. We've gone back into the void on his watch, and I'm plenty bitter about it, especially since I saw it coming.

We've made Bailiff wealthy. He needs to step aside gracefully and let us set about fixing this, assuming that is even possible at this point.
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(11-14-2015 11:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 09:10 PM)WIowl Wrote:  And that 5-6 season following the playoff run was a warning to Rice, Bailiff would not be able to sustain high level performance.

That was always the far bigger red flag to me than running out the clock in the playoff loss. I can come up with a logical justification for the clock management. But falling back to 5-6 the next year scared me then. He has showed some ability to maintain the last two years, but this year tells a different story. He has to right the ship, win out, and win the bowl, or I'm as ready for a change as I was in 2010 and 2011.

I'm somewhat surprised that you still leave that door open.

As I said, I judge on the season, not one game. 7-6 with a bowl win would still make it hard for me to fire. We are really no worse than we were in mid-2012, plus he has the second half of 2012 plus 2013 and 2014 on his resume now.

But the effort I saw today is not going to finish 7-6. I'm astonished that Wagner is winless, considering they played us.

So, you're going to base your decision strictly on W-L record regardless to overall performance measures? For heavens sake, we totally sucked in 2 of our wins, barely eking out wins against lowly Army and FAU. After today's game, I fully expect Jonathan's median performance rating to fall into the mid-30s, which is gawd awful. Even if we win out we'll almost certainly be ranked outsides the Top 100.

Tell Joe not us. We didn't give him the contract extensions that now make a buyout financially not possible. Tanner and Joe don't care what we think but you can do something about it. So do it.

One other observation. The Stadium Club was about half as full for homecoming as it was for Army. The mood was definitely not happy. Those are the people who will come up with the money for a buyout, if anyone does.

I am as PO'd about the coaches as almost all of you, but as one who went on the field as part of the Homecoming celebration of the Annual Fund, I can't help but say to the players, "Get your **** together, you are on full scholarship to a great university and at Homecoming, you just gave up." I'm sorry, but that won't cut it! If you can't complete a single pass in an entire half then you don't seem to care,so get it together or get the heck outta here!

(11-15-2015 02:07 AM)RiceDad Wrote:  I am as PO'd about the coaches as almost all of you, but as one who went on the field as part of the Homecoming celebration of the Annual Fund, I can't help but say to the players, "Get your **** together, you are on full scholarship to a great university and at Homecoming, you just gave up." I'm sorry, but that won't cut it! If you can't complete a single pass in an entire half then you don't seem to care,so get it together or get the heck outta here!

The coaches recruited the players.

If the players don't want to be here or are not able to appreciate the opportunity that they have been given, then yes, they should not be at Rice. But the bottom line is that they were recruited and molded by the coaching staff. In one way or another, it all comes back to Bailiff and co.

Rice has to do a much better job of building and maintaining a D1 football program. That much is indisputable. But Bailiff has to be held accountable for what he has overseen here; if he needed more support to get the job done, he either needed to lobby for it harder or resign in frustration. The clock has well and truly struck midnight for him.

(11-14-2015 07:59 PM)Da.Owl Wrote:  Every ticket holder in the Greater Houston area should show up for Baliff's radio show and just sit there giving him the evil eye. Not enough time to buy anonymous masks.

I doubt DB will have the courage to show up after this fiasco. He can't CoachSpeak his way out of results of the past two games.

(11-14-2015 10:19 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 10:15 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 09:35 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 04:48 PM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  Guess this frees up my late-December travel plans.

Not so fast my friend. All we have to do is beat Charlotte and we're in.

Not so fast for you either, my friend ... we are 4-6 and need beat UTSA and Charlotte.

...and the way we played the last 2 weeks I seriously question whether we can beat even Charlotte.

1. If we play like this then there's no way we beat Charlotte or Wagner for that matter.

2. However, I am not counting on UTSA but even my logical side thinks we can still beat Charlotte.

3. There could be 5 to 10 5-7 teams with bowl bids this year. APR ranking will have an impact on those selections:

Quote:And the seven lucky 5-7 teams based on this week's projection in APR order:

Nebraska (985), Virginia Tech (977), Indiana (977), Kansas State (976), Rice (973), Arizona (961), Connecticut (960)

(11-15-2015 12:51 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That was always the far bigger red flag to me than running out the clock in the playoff loss. I can come up with a logical justification for the clock management. But falling back to 5-6 the next year scared me then. He has showed some ability to maintain the last two years, but this year tells a different story. He has to right the ship, win out, and win the bowl, or I'm as ready for a change as I was in 2010 and 2011.

I'm somewhat surprised that you still leave that door open.

As I said, I judge on the season, not one game. 7-6 with a bowl win would still make it hard for me to fire. We are really no worse than we were in mid-2012, plus he has the second half of 2012 plus 2013 and 2014 on his resume now.

But the effort I saw today is not going to finish 7-6. I'm astonished that Wagner is winless, considering they played us.

So, you're going to base your decision strictly on W-L record regardless to overall performance measures? For heavens sake, we totally sucked in 2 of our wins, barely eking out wins against lowly Army and FAU. After today's game, I fully expect Jonathan's median performance rating to fall into the mid-30s, which is gawd awful. Even if we win out we'll almost certainly be ranked outsides the Top 100.

Tell Joe not us. We didn't give him the contract extensions that now make a buyout financially not possible. Tanner and Joe don't care what we think but you can do something about it. So do it.

1

(11-15-2015 12:51 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That was always the far bigger red flag to me than running out the clock in the playoff loss. I can come up with a logical justification for the clock management. But falling back to 5-6 the next year scared me then. He has showed some ability to maintain the last two years, but this year tells a different story. He has to right the ship, win out, and win the bowl, or I'm as ready for a change as I was in 2010 and 2011.

I'm somewhat surprised that you still leave that door open.

As I said, I judge on the season, not one game. 7-6 with a bowl win would still make it hard for me to fire. We are really no worse than we were in mid-2012, plus he has the second half of 2012 plus 2013 and 2014 on his resume now.

But the effort I saw today is not going to finish 7-6. I'm astonished that Wagner is winless, considering they played us.

So, you're going to base your decision strictly on W-L record regardless to overall performance measures? For heavens sake, we totally sucked in 2 of our wins, barely eking out wins against lowly Army and FAU. After today's game, I fully expect Jonathan's median performance rating to fall into the mid-30s, which is gawd awful. Even if we win out we'll almost certainly be ranked outsides the Top 100.

Tell Joe not us. We didn't give him the contract extensions that now make a buyout financially not possible. Tanner and Joe don't care what we think but you can do something about it. So do it.

1. I really don't think Joe needs to be told. He sees what we all see; he's not blind.

2. Tanner has nothing to do with this. He's responsible for increasing revenues, and has no say in coaching personnel decisions.

3. This is a message board-- am I the only one not allowed to voice my opinion (which, BTW, has been much less strident than others the past couple weeks)?

4. The buyout is nowhere near so high that it's financially impossible. Keeping Bailiff at this point would be a financial killer for the athletic department, IMO.

5. And while I certainly did not agree with giving DB the last contract extension, you have to take into account JK's perspective at the time. He had just been here for a little over 2 months (officially not taking over until early October)...we had just won our first conference championship in football in eons....and had played the best game in the DB era (vs. Marshall).

Any discussion JK has with DB that doesn't involve a box or a garbage bag is beyond my comprehension.

(11-15-2015 04:00 AM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 07:59 PM)Da.Owl Wrote:  Every ticket holder in the Greater Houston area should show up for Baliff's radio show and just sit there giving him the evil eye. Not enough time to buy anonymous masks.

I doubt DB will have the courage to show up after this fiasco. He can't CoachSpeak his way out of results of the past two games.

Actually I think he will show up and he really doesn't deserve to be abused in that fashion. Leave that approach to those who wear orange or red

(11-15-2015 07:00 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 12:51 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:41 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 11:07 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I'm somewhat surprised that you still leave that door open.

As I said, I judge on the season, not one game. 7-6 with a bowl win would still make it hard for me to fire. We are really no worse than we were in mid-2012, plus he has the second half of 2012 plus 2013 and 2014 on his resume now.

But the effort I saw today is not going to finish 7-6. I'm astonished that Wagner is winless, considering they played us.

So, you're going to base your decision strictly on W-L record regardless to overall performance measures? For heavens sake, we totally sucked in 2 of our wins, barely eking out wins against lowly Army and FAU. After today's game, I fully expect Jonathan's median performance rating to fall into the mid-30s, which is gawd awful. Even if we win out we'll almost certainly be ranked outsides the Top 100.

Tell Joe not us. We didn't give him the contract extensions that now make a buyout financially not possible. Tanner and Joe don't care what we think but you can do something about it. So do it.

1. I really don't think Joe needs to be told. He sees what we all see; he's not blind.

2. Tanner has nothing to do with this. He's responsible for increasing revenues, and has no say in coaching personnel decisions.

3. This is a message board-- am I the only one not allowed to voice my opinion (which, BTW, has been much less strident than others the past couple weeks)?

4. The buyout is nowhere near so high that it's financially impossible. Keeping Bailiff at this point would be a financial killer for the athletic department, IMO.

5. And while I certainly did not agree with giving DB the last contract extension, you have to take into account JK's perspective at the time. He had just been here for a little over 2 months (officially not taking over until early October)...we had just won our first conference championship in football in eons....and had played the best game in the DB era (vs. Marshall).

An interesting dynamic. This board, which has generally supported JK, is so upset with DB that many posters seem to be making JK's handling of the DB situation a referendum on JK.


In agreement with Walt's point 5, if my memory serves me well, JK had more pressing problems than DB when he took over, especially the Braun situation, and he needed to resolve football in order to concentrate on the other problems. As Walt points out, on the surface, football seemed to a newcomer to be in capable hands, and the extension allowed JK to concentrate on the basketball situation

Unless I am giving JK more credit than he deserves, we can trust him to do the right thing, the best thing for Rice, given whatever constraints, financial or otherwise, which he and the department may be facing.

The schedule still has two terrible teams, Rice can win them, go 6-6 and we will hear how the season was saved/turned around, and he deserves another year...

I hope the team wins the last two games and eeks out a bowl, but that will not save this disappointing season. I like Tiki's call of firing him now and allowing a fresh start for the team, it may invigorate their play and give the assistants freedom to try things out differently.

(11-14-2015 07:29 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 07:16 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 07:03 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  As painful as this game was to witness, it pretty much forces JK's hand.

You really think so? I think he holds on and Rice goes the cheap route. Again.
And we're back to the last year of Hatfield's time and Rice fires Bailiff next year.

The game that many here point to as the "tipping point" in Hatfield's tenure was the 70-63 loss at San Jose State. But, he remained as coach, and Rice proceeded to lose 16 of the next 18 games, all with Hatfield.

That is exactly what is going to happen this time.

(11-15-2015 09:11 AM)WIowl Wrote:  The schedule still has two terrible teams, Rice can win them, go 6-6 and we will hear how the season was saved/turned around, and he deserves another year...

I hope the team wins the last two games and eeks out a bowl, but that will not save this disappointing season. I like Tiki's call of firing him now and allowing a fresh start for the team, it may invigorate their play and give the assistants freedom to try things out differently.

I hope no one will try to intentionally spin a potential 7-6 year into anything better than having a little momentum going into next year. This year, even if we somehow pull out three more wins, is an unmitigated disaster. At this point, there is no longer a downside to removing the entire coaching staff by the end of the season, since we would probably have more hope/optimism at the end of a 1-11 season next year, with a new staff, than we would with an 8-4 or 9-3 record with the current staff. DB seems to have completely lost the faith of the fans, and his team has completely come off the tracks. After the results of the past few weeks, I can't imagine JK having any conversation with DB about his future at Rice that doesn't include telling him to pack his things. DB did some good things for this program, but the results from this year are so astoundingly poor that I really don't see another option, even if we find some way to win three more games (which I doubt we do).

(11-15-2015 09:50 AM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 07:29 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 07:16 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 07:03 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  As painful as this game was to witness, it pretty much forces JK's hand.

You really think so? I think he holds on and Rice goes the cheap route. Again.
And we're back to the last year of Hatfield's time and Rice fires Bailiff next year.

The game that many here point to as the "tipping point" in Hatfield's tenure was the 70-63 loss at San Jose State. But, he remained as coach, and Rice proceeded to lose 16 of the next 18 games, all with Hatfield.

That is exactly what is going to happen this time.

Absolutely agree.

The media would not crucify Rice after firing him over a 65-10 homecoming beat down. Yet, here we are, it's Sunday morning and he's still the coach. ULM fires their coach immediately after their blowout loss (same as UNT, Miami, etc.), and we get silence from Rice.

(11-15-2015 01:45 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One other observation. The Stadium Club was about half as full for homecoming as it was for Army.

Given how sterile the Stadium Club is, how beautiful the weather was, and how many friends were on campus for Homecoming who are not club members, I'd like to think it was a good sign that fewer people were ensconced in the club

(11-15-2015 09:55 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 01:45 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One other observation. The Stadium Club was about half as full for homecoming as it was for Army.

Given how sterile the Staium Club is, how beautiful the weather was, and how many friends were on campus forHomecoming who are not club members, I'd like to think it was a good sign that fewer people were ensconced in the club

Spin....

Or since it was homecoming there should be a greater number of club members present at the game, and even with visiting, there should have at least equaled the number present at the Army game.

The bigger issue is they were NOT happy.

In the last 25 years, I have left 3 games early. Nichols st (weather, horrific play and some personal reasons), UH 2012 and yesterday having decided to leave after the MOB, ran into someone, saw USM score their 7th. My disgust is complete.

I also very rarely leave early. Yesterday was an exception.