(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:41 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:21 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  That stat is meaningless. We are talking Michael Sam. HIS stats. HERO has nothing to do with it. You saying it only 'counts' if they come at during their careers has nothing to do with it.
Again, you assert the only reason that Sam isn't in the NFL is because he is gay. Show us the stats that say his performance level is equal to or greater than players at his position in the NFL. If you cannot do that, then your argument is not very strong. Show us why he SHOULD be in the NFL based on like/like comparisons. Can you do that?

The NFL owner is fighting so that he doesn't ever have to consider a Gay person's stats in hiring. Just fire them for coming out and make sure they never make a gameday roster if they are out.

And a majority of NFL owners are apparently unconcerned with that.

0 out of 35,000

So you cant answer his question... got it!

Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

He only got a shot because he's gay. He sucks, on and off the field, and if he were straight his NFL days would have been over before they started. Tom is full of ****.

(10-20-2015 05:09 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:21 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  That stat is meaningless. We are talking Michael Sam. HIS stats. HERO has nothing to do with it. You saying it only 'counts' if they come at during their careers has nothing to do with it.
Again, you assert the only reason that Sam isn't in the NFL is because he is gay. Show us the stats that say his performance level is equal to or greater than players at his position in the NFL. If you cannot do that, then your argument is not very strong. Show us why he SHOULD be in the NFL based on like/like comparisons. Can you do that?

The NFL owner is fighting so that he doesn't ever have to consider a Gay person's stats in hiring. Just fire them for coming out and make sure they never make a gameday roster if they are out.

And a majority of NFL owners are apparently unconcerned with that.

0 out of 35,000

Is the owner backing a bill that MANDATES (no pun intended) that all gay workers be fired? No? Then it is not germane to the discussion.
Nor is the 0 for 35,000 stat. It's the Gambles Fallacy "it got to be Red this time because the last 35,000 times its been black'. No it doesn't. That's why 0 is irrelevant. Even more so because you discriminate against 'homosexuals' and those who 'come out' after their playing days are done.

We are talking about one specific player. It's his stats that we are talking about. Are/were his measurables good enough for him to be in the NFL. Being Gay does not entitle you to a roster spot.

McNair is bankrolling a bill to protect him to continue to keep queers off his team, regardless of stats. A majority of NFL owners don't seem to be concerned about that.

We are talking about a league that is rife with homophobia and bias against Gay persons.

Sam was just the latest example. Sam never had a chance....because the NFL won't play Gay players. Regardless of qualifications.

(10-20-2015 05:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:41 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 12:21 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  That stat is meaningless. We are talking Michael Sam. HIS stats. HERO has nothing to do with it. You saying it only 'counts' if they come at during their careers has nothing to do with it.
Again, you assert the only reason that Sam isn't in the NFL is because he is gay. Show us the stats that say his performance level is equal to or greater than players at his position in the NFL. If you cannot do that, then your argument is not very strong. Show us why he SHOULD be in the NFL based on like/like comparisons. Can you do that?

The NFL owner is fighting so that he doesn't ever have to consider a Gay person's stats in hiring. Just fire them for coming out and make sure they never make a gameday roster if they are out.

And a majority of NFL owners are apparently unconcerned with that.

0 out of 35,000

So you cant answer his question... got it!

Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

HERO was not the law in Houston when he was not hired by McNair. Discrimination against Gay persons solely on the basis of their sexual orientation was legal in Houston when he was discriminated against.

It isn't NOW, but will be again if McNair's goal of defeating HERO works. Just like the NFL wants it.

(10-20-2015 09:35 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:41 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The NFL owner is fighting so that he doesn't ever have to consider a Gay person's stats in hiring. Just fire them for coming out and make sure they never make a gameday roster if they are out.

And a majority of NFL owners are apparently unconcerned with that.

0 out of 35,000

So you cant answer his question... got it!

Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

HERO was not the law in Houston when he was not hired by McNair. Discrimination against Gay persons solely on the basis of their sexual orientation was legal in Houston when he was discriminated against.

It isn't NOW, but will be again if McNair's goal of defeating HERO works. Just like the NFL wants it.

Bahahahahahahaha what does McNair, the Houston Texans Owner, have anything to do with Michael Sam? The St. Louis Rams were the team that took him. So again, how come Michael Sam didn't make a complain against the St. Louis Rams?


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(10-20-2015 09:35 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:41 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The NFL owner is fighting so that he doesn't ever have to consider a Gay person's stats in hiring. Just fire them for coming out and make sure they never make a gameday roster if they are out.

And a majority of NFL owners are apparently unconcerned with that.

0 out of 35,000

So you cant answer his question... got it!

Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

HERO was not the law in Houston when he was not hired by McNair. Discrimination against Gay persons solely on the basis of their sexual orientation was legal in Houston when he was discriminated against.

It isn't NOW, but will be again if McNair's goal of defeating HERO works. Just like the NFL wants it.

So you think they took Clowney because Sam was gay?

(10-20-2015 09:40 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:35 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:41 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  So you cant answer his question... got it!

Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

HERO was not the law in Houston when he was not hired by McNair. Discrimination against Gay persons solely on the basis of their sexual orientation was legal in Houston when he was discriminated against.

It isn't NOW, but will be again if McNair's goal of defeating HERO works. Just like the NFL wants it.

Bahahahahahahaha what does McNair, the Houston Texans Owner, have anything to do with Michael Sam? The St. Louis Rams were the team that took him. So again, how come Michael Sam didn't make a complain against the St. Louis Rams?


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I was wondering the same thing. Hell, Jerry Jones even gave him a shot in Dallas too.

But the law being backed still ALLOWS you to hire gays. So if Sam met the measurables that an NFL DE needs to meet any team COULD let him play. So nothing is preventing him from playing. If he has the talent. You have not proven 1 solid fact that Sam has what it takes to be in the NFL.

Tom isn't into fact.

(10-20-2015 10:10 PM)dfarr Wrote:  I was wondering the same thing. Hell, Jerry Jones even gave him a shot in Dallas too.

Not to mention Dallas DL was decimated with injuries at the time. They were looking for anyone who could generate a pass rush, and Sam couldn't even make it past the practice squad.

He isn't NFL good. Has nothing to do w/ him puffing peters.

Plus, the ordinance is not even in effect here in Houston, the Texas Supreme Court struck it down and told the city to put it to a vote. Tom doesnt like to tell the truth it seems.

(10-21-2015 09:14 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Plus, the ordinance is not even in effect here in Houston, the Texas Supreme Court struck it down and told the city to put it to a vote. Tom doesnt like to tell the truth it seems.

The bill was in effect. I actually think it still is.

The Texas Supreme Court made a ridiculous ruling to demand that we vote on this issue based upon the wishes of petition signers from Louisiana. The Texas Supreme Court is full of homophobes who hate Gay people. Fact.

(10-20-2015 09:54 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:35 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:41 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  So you cant answer his question... got it!

Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

HERO was not the law in Houston when he was not hired by McNair. Discrimination against Gay persons solely on the basis of their sexual orientation was legal in Houston when he was discriminated against.

It isn't NOW, but will be again if McNair's goal of defeating HERO works. Just like the NFL wants it.

So you think they took Clowney because Sam was gay?

He took Clowney because he was Straight. If Sam was straight and Clowney was Gay, McNair would have drafted Sam.

(10-20-2015 10:47 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  But the law being backed still ALLOWS you to hire gays. So if Sam met the measurables that an NFL DE needs to meet any team COULD let him play. So nothing is preventing him from playing. If he has the talent. You have not proven 1 solid fact that Sam has what it takes to be in the NFL.

Actually if everyone else can play for all the teams, and over half the NFL owners either directly support or don't have a problem with not hiring/drafting someone because they are Gay, then the Gay person is at a HUGE disadvantage.

Just like a Gay football coach would be trying to gain employment in a world where some of the employers won't hire Gay people.

0 of 35,000.

0 openly Gay coaches

0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches.

(10-22-2015 10:10 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 09:14 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Plus, the ordinance is not even in effect here in Houston, the Texas Supreme Court struck it down and told the city to put it to a vote. Tom doesnt like to tell the truth it seems.

The bill was in effect. I actually think it still is.

The Texas Supreme Court made a ridiculous ruling to demand that we vote on this issue based upon the wishes of petition signers from Louisiana. The Texas Supreme Court is full of homophobes who hate Gay people. Fact.

You need to do research before you open your mouth. You are making yourself look like an idiot.

"HOUSTON (KTRK) -- The Texas Supreme Court has ruled that enforcement of the City of Houston's equal rights amendment (HERO) be suspended.

In an opinion issued today, the court ruled that the city must repeal the ordinance by August 24 or place the issue on the November ballot."

Plus, do you have any sources to your claims?

http://abc13.com/news/city-of-houstons-e...ed/877936/

(10-22-2015 10:27 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:10 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 09:14 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Plus, the ordinance is not even in effect here in Houston, the Texas Supreme Court struck it down and told the city to put it to a vote. Tom doesnt like to tell the truth it seems.

The bill was in effect. I actually think it still is.

The Texas Supreme Court made a ridiculous ruling to demand that we vote on this issue based upon the wishes of petition signers from Louisiana. The Texas Supreme Court is full of homophobes who hate Gay people. Fact.

You need to do research before you open your mouth. You are making yourself look like an idiot.

"HOUSTON (KTRK) -- The Texas Supreme Court has ruled that enforcement of the City of Houston's equal rights amendment (HERO) be suspended.

In an opinion issued today, the court ruled that the city must repeal the ordinance by August 24 or place the issue on the November ballot."

Plus, do you have any sources to your claims?

http://abc13.com/news/city-of-houstons-e...ed/877936/

The ordinance was in effect before a bunch of anti-Gay haters ordered the city to STOP protecting Gay people.

Because politicians supported by McNair demanded that Houston not prevent people like McNair from firing people that come out of the closet and not hiring/drafting those that are openly Gay.

Look, McNair has gone to a lot of expense and trouble to ensure that he will be able to fire Gay people. The NFL doesn't have a problem with that. So we can assume that at least a majority of NFL owners also support firing employees for being Gay.

That's why, IMHO, there has never been an openly Gay player on any NFL gameday roster.

(10-22-2015 10:15 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:47 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  But the law being backed still ALLOWS you to hire gays. So if Sam met the measurables that an NFL DE needs to meet any team COULD let him play. So nothing is preventing him from playing. If he has the talent. You have not proven 1 solid fact that Sam has what it takes to be in the NFL.

Actually if everyone else can play for all the teams, and over half the NFL owners either directly support or don't have a problem with not hiring/drafting someone because they are Gay, then the Gay person is at a HUGE disadvantage.

Just like a Gay football coach would be trying to gain employment in a world where some of the employers won't hire Gay people.

0 of 35,000.

0 openly Gay coaches

0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches.

Again. Not showing where Gays are prohibited from playing in the NFL.
We are talking about 1 player. So your 0 for whatever numbers don't have relevance
Finally, with you saying that Sam was the equivalent of Clowney on the field do you have any stats to back that up? What were Clowneys measurable sat the combine or his pro day compared to Sam? If they were not equal, or even close, your argument does not hold water

(10-22-2015 10:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:27 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:10 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-21-2015 09:14 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Plus, the ordinance is not even in effect here in Houston, the Texas Supreme Court struck it down and told the city to put it to a vote. Tom doesnt like to tell the truth it seems.

The bill was in effect. I actually think it still is.

The Texas Supreme Court made a ridiculous ruling to demand that we vote on this issue based upon the wishes of petition signers from Louisiana. The Texas Supreme Court is full of homophobes who hate Gay people. Fact.

You need to do research before you open your mouth. You are making yourself look like an idiot.

"HOUSTON (KTRK) -- The Texas Supreme Court has ruled that enforcement of the City of Houston's equal rights amendment (HERO) be suspended.

In an opinion issued today, the court ruled that the city must repeal the ordinance by August 24 or place the issue on the November ballot."

Plus, do you have any sources to your claims?

http://abc13.com/news/city-of-houstons-e...ed/877936/

The ordinance was in effect before a bunch of anti-Gay haters ordered the city to STOP protecting Gay people.

Because politicians supported by McNair demanded that Houston not prevent people like McNair from firing people that come out of the closet and not hiring/drafting those that are openly Gay.

Look, McNair has gone to a lot of expense and trouble to ensure that he will be able to fire Gay people. The NFL doesn't have a problem with that. So we can assume that at least a majority of NFL owners also support firing employees for being Gay.

That's why, IMHO, there has never been an openly Gay player on any NFL gameday roster.

Still no sources to your claims...

(10-22-2015 10:50 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:15 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:47 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  But the law being backed still ALLOWS you to hire gays. So if Sam met the measurables that an NFL DE needs to meet any team COULD let him play. So nothing is preventing him from playing. If he has the talent. You have not proven 1 solid fact that Sam has what it takes to be in the NFL.

Actually if everyone else can play for all the teams, and over half the NFL owners either directly support or don't have a problem with not hiring/drafting someone because they are Gay, then the Gay person is at a HUGE disadvantage.

Just like a Gay football coach would be trying to gain employment in a world where some of the employers won't hire Gay people.

0 of 35,000.

0 openly Gay coaches

0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches.

Again. Not showing where Gays are prohibited from playing in the NFL.
We are talking about 1 player. So your 0 for whatever numbers don't have relevance
Finally, with you saying that Sam was the equivalent of Clowney on the field do you have any stats to back that up? What were Clowneys measurable sat the combine or his pro day compared to Sam? If they were not equal, or even close, your argument does not hold water

Stats are for those that have to be judged based upon stats. The owner of the Texans, with the apparent support of the NFL, wants to ensure that Gays can be excluded from the league regardless of stats.

Here's some stats for you

0 of 35,000
0 openly Gay head coaches
0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches

I'm not sure there's ever been an openly Gay scout either.


Here's some more

100% of openly Gay persons who came out subsequent to being active players said that the fear of discrimination was the reason they hid in the closet while active in the NFL.

One of the only vocally supportive of LGBT rights player was canned by the Vikings, who cited his 'activism'. His coach said that all Gays and their supporters should be subjected to genocidal murder. The coach was retained. The Gay supportive player was fired.

Meanwhile Tony Dungy gets celebrated by the league as he advocates and advances hatred and abuse of LGBT persons. As do a large number of homophobic players.

---

Its hard to claim that the NFL isn't discriminating, when there's a lot of evidence that it has been discriminating AND THE OWNERSHIP WANTS TO PROTECT ITS RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE.

---

Look, either HERO will be retained, or we will turn Sunday into a liberal estrogen fest. Because the NFL doesn't have any credible excuse as to why they've been supporting discrimination against LGBT persons, wants to turn the 2017 Super Bowl into a hate fest where fans will have to face humiliation to attend, have been firing Gay supportive players, venerate vocally hateful voices against LGBT persons, and have a history of excluding every openly Gay person from every player and player development position except for the ridiculous charade of having the one team that had no need for a DE draft him 3 slots before the end of the draft because all the other teams wouldn't draft a Gay player.

(10-22-2015 10:12 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:54 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 09:35 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 05:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 04:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Get ready for the broken record to get turnt up too.

The NFL has no openly Gay players because they discriminate against Gay persons. And they love that discrimination so much that they are fighting to sustain firing people for being Gay and not hiring/drafting them if they're already out.

Sam's stats are irrelevant so long as the NFL is attempting to make it legal for someone to be fired or not hired/drafted because they are Gay irrespective of stats. 0 out of 35,000. At some point, claims of no one qualified become risible.

McNair is a bigot. IMHO he'd trade Watt immediately if he came out. I'm wondering if any openly DEMOCRATIC people work for the Texans.

Want stats? Then make them binding.

Just answer me this one question Tom, if Michael Sam is being discriminated against, how come he hasnt made a complaint?

HERO was not the law in Houston when he was not hired by McNair. Discrimination against Gay persons solely on the basis of their sexual orientation was legal in Houston when he was discriminated against.

It isn't NOW, but will be again if McNair's goal of defeating HERO works. Just like the NFL wants it.

So you think they took Clowney because Sam was gay?

He took Clowney because he was Straight. If Sam was straight and Clowney was Gay, McNair would have drafted Sam.

Even if you're right that he would not have drafted Clowney if Gay (and I don't buy it) he still would not have taken Sam. He may have taken Khalil Mack, Anthony Barr, or Dee Ford.

Sam had *two* issues which would have given me pause about drafting him at all.

1 - He had a pitiful combine, really wasted a spot that maybe some other guy could have done well in. His pro day was no better. He proved in demonstrable ways he was no better than a 5th rounder.

2 - In the weeks leading up to the draft he was more focused on Micheal Sam the social justice warrior than Micheal Sam the defensive end. Arranging reality shows, and pulling publicity over actually making himself attractive to NFL owners. Nobody who is a 5th round pick is worth that.

Take Khalil Mack. 5th pick over all, conference player of the year, holds two NCAA records, Jack Lambert Award winner, and some of the best numbers in the combine. Despite the media circus around him all he did after the combine was prepare for pro day and all he did was interview with teams.

Sam could not even hack it with Montreal where, physically, he was probably on par with the other DE's but still made a mess of things.

Sam was too concerned about his upcoming reali